Woman arrested for using camera

[Monki]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2009/dec/15/pol...


Sadly it's the Guardian, now I don't know how true the latter claims are regarding the arrest (especially as the builders all looked drunk!) but I thought the attitude of the PCSO was terrible!

General idea of the story is that an Italian art student was filming buildings in London for an art project, PCSO asks what she is doing, she answers and then he pretty much accuses her of terrorism and it escalates (allegedly) to the point where 4 police officers are called in to assist the PCSO in arresting her and she is kept in cells until she agrees to pay a fine for public misconduct (or something along those lines)


Ihre Papiere bitte!

[AndrewW-G]

This is something that has been discussed at length in the photography section on PH, it's all down to a combination of badly thought out and worded legislation and badly trained overzealous PCSO's

Had we invested in more police officers to patrol the streets, instead of the glorified park wardens/supermarket security guards who seem to make up most of the PCSO’s ranks, we wouldn’t have this problem.

[shakotan]

AndrewW-G said:

This is something that has been discussed at length in the photography section on PH, it's all down to a combination of badly thought out and worded legislation and badly trained overzealous PCSO's

Had we invested in more police officers to patrol the streets, instead of the glorified park wardens/supermarket security guards who seem to make up most of the PCSO’s ranks, we wouldn’t have this problem.

Not just the PSCOs though, coz the 'real' Police still arrested her.

[turbobloke]

shakotan said:

AndrewW-G said:

This is something that has been discussed at length in the photography section on PH, it's all down to a combination of badly thought out and worded legislation and badly trained overzealous PCSO's

Had we invested in more police officers to patrol the streets, instead of the glorified park wardens/supermarket security guards who seem to make up most of the PCSO’s ranks, we wouldn’t have this problem.

Not just the PSCOs though, coz the 'real' Police still arrested her.

Would that be the real police called in by the (allegedly) poorly trained over-zealous glorified park wardens and supermarket security guards

If so, perhaps the point is that if highly trained PCSOs saw the art student(s) filming they would say "ah arty filming stuff how quaint and harmless" and then toddle off to issue a ticket to some deserving motorist whose vehicle is causing no problem except for contravening a money-making council scam.

[AndrewW-G]

shakotan said:

AndrewW-G said:

This is something that has been discussed at length in the photography section on PH, it's all down to a combination of badly thought out and worded legislation and badly trained overzealous PCSO's

Had we invested in more police officers to patrol the streets, instead of the glorified park wardens/supermarket security guards who seem to make up most of the PCSO’s ranks, we wouldn’t have this problem.

Not just the PSCOs though, coz the 'real' Police still arrested her.

The real police were called in by the PCSO's, no doubt due to the fuss the student was making after being told she couldn’t take a photograph!

Given the clarification of the law made to the PCSO's by the chief super duper's following previous complaints and demonstrations” It is not illegal to take photos of the outside of buildings or of street scenes” the only reasons I can see for telling somebody to stop taking photos, when its bloody obvious it isn’t part of a terrorist plot, are poor training, poor judgement, poor attitude, all things that IMHO many PCSO’s suffer from

[iiyama]

They were discussing the exact same thing, (albeit different parties), on Radio 2 the other day.

Looks like the terrorist have won then Gordon as we now live in a dictatorship.

[catso]

Look on the bright side, another 'dangerous' criminal on the DNA database....

[paddyhasneeds]

Monki said:

Ihre Papiere bitte!

Watching the film you're not that far off the mark. I think part of the problem is that predominantly younger PCSO's or BiB seem incapable of simply accepting that they're being a bit of a prat and seem determined to find something.

I mean FFS five minutes in and he remembers he saw her cycling down a one-way street - he wasn't looking for a reason at all was he...

[catso]

paddyhasneeds said:

I mean FFS five minutes in and he remembers he saw her cycling down a one-way street - he wasn't looking for a reason at all was he...

The man was acting like a nob-end and is a disgrace to his 'toys-r-us' uniform.

[nonegreen]

What happens if you deck the PCSO and leg it?

[xr287]

Think she was asking for it really. If anybody watched the video they would see the guy was pretty friendly and just asked her why she was filming. She didn't tell them she was an art student, refused to show them anything she had taken and was generally argumentitive. She only mentions she is an art student about 5 mins in to the conversation and doesn't have any ID on her. Of course the guy might think it's odd she only happened to mention she was an art student and this is related to why she is filming architecture well in to his conversation with her.

I think the £80 fine is wrong as she didn't seem to cause any distress and alarm in a public place or whatever the exact wording on it was. But taking a minute to explain who she was, why she was filming and let them see some of her footage and they would have been on their way. Her fault it esculated in my opinion.

[paddyhasneeds]

catso said:

paddyhasneeds said:

I mean FFS five minutes in and he remembers he saw her cycling down a one-way street - he wasn't looking for a reason at all was he...

The man was acting like a nob-end and is a disgrace to his 'toys-r-us' uniform.

I guess if you're filming in a "sensitive" area then fair enough, I can see the reasons for perhaps a "Mind if we ask why you're filming" type of "quiet word".

Where I have an issue is when you have that boy - and it was a boy he looked liked he was barely shaving - basically realising "Oh st this one's asking questions, what's the law again?" and frantically spooling out his fishing line looking for something, anything to use rather than simply realising "Hey guess what, actually she's not doing anything wrong".

The sad thing is it help tar all PCSOs with the same "plastic plod" brush.

[AndrewW-G]

xr287 said:

Think she was asking for it really. If anybody watched the video they would see the guy was pretty friendly and just asked her why she was filming. .

She wasn’t doing anything illegal, so therefore there was no reason for the PCSO to ask her what she was filming and why. She was also quite clearly somebody for whom English wasn’t a first language, yet the PCSO refused to believe that she was filming for fun.................without any evidence to support his viewpoint.

This isn’t an isolated case and is something that we should all be fighting, if we want to live in a free country.

[Halb]

xr287 said:

Think she was asking for it really. If anybody watched the video they would see the guy was pretty friendly and just asked her why she was filming. She didn't tell them she was an art student, refused to show them anything she had taken and was generally argumentitive. She only mentions she is an art student about 5 mins in to the conversation and doesn't have any ID on her. Of course the guy might think it's odd she only happened to mention she was an art student and this is related to why she is filming architecture well in to his conversation with her.

I think the £80 fine is wrong as she didn't seem to cause any distress and alarm in a public place or whatever the exact wording on it was. But taking a minute to explain who she was, why she was filming and let them see some of her footage and they would have been on their way. Her fault it esculated in my opinion.

I disagree. I didn't find him friendly or professional. He was sarcastic, chewing gum and didn't know the law. He might be a decent PSCO with some training but this video did not exemplify that he had any decent training.

Woman:I'm an art student
PCSO:Have you any identification?
Woman:Ah yes, the famous art ID card, I have it here. Designed by Renoir.

Edited by Halb on Wednesday 16th December 13:23

[hairykrishna]

xr287 said:

Think she was asking for it really. If anybody watched the video they would see the guy was pretty friendly and just asked her why she was filming. She didn't tell them she was an art student, refused to show them anything she had taken and was generally argumentitive. She only mentions she is an art student about 5 mins in to the conversation and doesn't have any ID on her. Of course the guy might think it's odd she only happened to mention she was an art student and this is related to why she is filming architecture well in to his conversation with her.

I think the £80 fine is wrong as she didn't seem to cause any distress and alarm in a public place or whatever the exact wording on it was. But taking a minute to explain who she was, why she was filming and let them see some of her footage and they would have been on their way. Her fault it esculated in my opinion.

I couldn't disagree more. She was in a public place and committing no crime. Why should she have to show him her footage or explain herself if she didn't want to?

[xr287]

AndrewW-G said:

xr287 said:

Think she was asking for it really. If anybody watched the video they would see the guy was pretty friendly and just asked her why she was filming. .

She wasn’t doing anything illegal, so therefore there was no reason for the PCSO to ask her what she was filming and why. She was also quite clearly somebody for whom English wasn’t a first language, yet the PCSO refused to believe that she was filming for fun.................without any evidence to support his viewpoint.

This isn’t an isolated case and is something that we should all be fighting, if we want to live in a free country.

True she wasn't doing anything illegal but why then was she so obstructive and awkward when asked about it. For instance if you were waiting for someone on a street corner at night and an officer had a word with you to see what you were up to would be obstructive or would you be friendly and polite? You aren't doing anything illegal but that doesn't mean the correct action is to be unhelpful.

Just recently they did arrest someone who had been filming in a public place, standard stop and ask them some questions and when they checked what he had filmed it was all suspicious prolonged footage of underground stations. Further investigation led to him having links with terrorism etc.

I don't think it's a big deal to have to spend 1 minute of your life explaining your self to a police officer if the result is that one person they speak to could be prevented from some sort of terrorist act.

[paddyhasneeds]

xr287 said:

Just recently they did arrest someone who had been filming in a public place, standard stop and ask them some questions and when they checked what he had filmed it was all suspicious prolonged footage of underground stations. Further investigation led to him having links with terrorism etc.

And there's the rub. I saw (wasn't paying massive attention) that story and thought it came down to nothing more than a hunch about someone filming something "a bit odd".

Let's assume a lot of "what if's" and somewhere down the line a bomb is set off and it's linked back to him - the PCSO is the villain because she didn't act.

[BiggusLaddus]

And if you tell that policeman that you are waiting for someone and he says "I don't believe you", where do you go from there?

[Halb]

xr287 said:

I don't think it's a big deal to have to spend 1 minute of your life explaining your self to a police officer if the result is that one person they speak to could be prevented from some sort of terrorist act.

Quite so. It is all in the questioning however. This lad did not go aboot it properly in my estimation. He was poor. An explanation of the law, of his fears and concerns and more politeness would have gotten this for him I feel. Not sarcastically asking aboot the 'iconic' quality of a building.

[tank slapper]

xr287 said:

Think she was asking for it really. If anybody watched the video they would see the guy was pretty friendly and just asked her why she was filming. She didn't tell them she was an art student, refused to show them anything she had taken and was generally argumentitive. She only mentions she is an art student about 5 mins in to the conversation and doesn't have any ID on her. Of course the guy might think it's odd she only happened to mention she was an art student and this is related to why she is filming architecture well in to his conversation with her.

I think the £80 fine is wrong as she didn't seem to cause any distress and alarm in a public place or whatever the exact wording on it was. But taking a minute to explain who she was, why she was filming and let them see some of her footage and they would have been on their way. Her fault it esculated in my opinion.

She wasn't asking for anything. The bloke was acting like an arrogant cock, and I probably would have told him to get lost had he spoken to me with that attitude. Another moron with a uniform who doesn't understand why he is there.

Had he approached in a friendly manner and had a normal conversation the situation would probably have never got to where it did. As it was, he came across as rude, dismissive and condescending, and his body language was confrontational.