Does industrial action (strikes/sick-outs, etc) work?
Discussion
Well the tube drivers have a very good wage and good terms. So in some respects it certainly can work (compare and contrast with the less unionised bus drivers who do a much harder job IMHO)
On the other hand, it can go a long way to killing a company in a competitive industry. The staff at BA would do well to look at where this kind of behaviour has got their counterparts at Alitalia.
On the other hand, it can go a long way to killing a company in a competitive industry. The staff at BA would do well to look at where this kind of behaviour has got their counterparts at Alitalia.
That's my thought about BA - surely the management will start to reconsider their approach to the union and the staff?
I also think about the Post Office - didn't the last lot of strikes lead to a position where the union agreed to change/modernise - what happened between then and the current lot of strikes?
I do see that sometimes the workers need to take a stand, but there sometimes seems to be a lot of "f
k you, I won't do what you tell me (even though I know it makes sense" - You read stories where employees are given the choice of sack a percentage of the workforce or everyone accept a small pay cut - this to me seems more Union-ised...
I also think about the Post Office - didn't the last lot of strikes lead to a position where the union agreed to change/modernise - what happened between then and the current lot of strikes?
I do see that sometimes the workers need to take a stand, but there sometimes seems to be a lot of "f
k you, I won't do what you tell me (even though I know it makes sense" - You read stories where employees are given the choice of sack a percentage of the workforce or everyone accept a small pay cut - this to me seems more Union-ised...james_tigerwoods said:
That's my thought about BA - surely the management will start to reconsider their approach to the union and the staff?
I also think about the Post Office - didn't the last lot of strikes lead to a position where the union agreed to change/modernise - what happened between then and the current lot of strikes?
I do see that sometimes the workers need to take a stand, but there sometimes seems to be a lot of "fk you, I won't do what you tell me (even though I know it makes sense" - You read stories where employees are given the choice of sack a percentage of the workforce or everyone accept a small pay cut - this to me seems more Union-ised...
With BA its only the trolley dollies that are striking, everyone else has accepted that BA needs to reduce the wage bill and taken a cut, etc...I also think about the Post Office - didn't the last lot of strikes lead to a position where the union agreed to change/modernise - what happened between then and the current lot of strikes?
I do see that sometimes the workers need to take a stand, but there sometimes seems to be a lot of "f
k you, I won't do what you tell me (even though I know it makes sense" - You read stories where employees are given the choice of sack a percentage of the workforce or everyone accept a small pay cut - this to me seems more Union-ised...BA management won't change their attitude to the CC over this current nonsense. The two sides in this dispute already hate eachother.
Strike action generally means a failure on both sides of a dispute. Nobody wins from it except competitors.
In this case BA CC may well have just helped sign the death certificate of the company that pays their wages. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Strike action generally means a failure on both sides of a dispute. Nobody wins from it except competitors.
In this case BA CC may well have just helped sign the death certificate of the company that pays their wages. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I think it depends on 'competition'. With the tube drivers, there is no effective competition - if they're out, half of London grinds to a halt, and the mess has to be sorted quickly.
With BA, any future bookings can go to other airlines, so the inconvenience is only to existing bookings. If the strike is longer-term, then BA is f***ed.
Don't know if anyone heard the programme on Radio 4 at the weekend on the missing episodes of Doctor Who etc from the late 70s. Anecdote was about the Play School clock. The carpenters had to set the clock up, and the electricians had to connect it up, buit there was a big demarcation dispute about who should set the hands of the clock to the required time... you couldn't make it up.
With BA, any future bookings can go to other airlines, so the inconvenience is only to existing bookings. If the strike is longer-term, then BA is f***ed.
Don't know if anyone heard the programme on Radio 4 at the weekend on the missing episodes of Doctor Who etc from the late 70s. Anecdote was about the Play School clock. The carpenters had to set the clock up, and the electricians had to connect it up, buit there was a big demarcation dispute about who should set the hands of the clock to the required time... you couldn't make it up.
No one wins in a strike. The managers that pushed the workers to strike usually find themselves sacked. And the workers who strike usually find themselves shafted.
BA is no different. The only thing I would say about BA is that the management and the cabin crew have wanted a fight for many years, ever since the great sick out about 10 years ago. That put paid to Bob Ayling, and this one will do the same to Willie Walsh. But the cabin crew will have these terms and conditions forced upon them one way or another. So as I said, no one wins.
BA is no different. The only thing I would say about BA is that the management and the cabin crew have wanted a fight for many years, ever since the great sick out about 10 years ago. That put paid to Bob Ayling, and this one will do the same to Willie Walsh. But the cabin crew will have these terms and conditions forced upon them one way or another. So as I said, no one wins.
Edited by jonnyb on Tuesday 15th December 09:51
I saw an ex pilot on the telly this morning saying that the BA cabin staff were paid in some cases double what their competitors were. Now I don't know how true this is so feel free anyone on the inside to comment but the service on BA is pretty poor compared to the other airlines I use.
Where there is a choice I'd rather fly Emirates etc for business which is a real pity, I think that the days of the "worlds favorite airline" have long gone and this will only add to the problems.
Where there is a choice I'd rather fly Emirates etc for business which is a real pity, I think that the days of the "worlds favorite airline" have long gone and this will only add to the problems.
jonnyb said:
No one wins in a strike. The managers that pushed the workers to strike usually find themselves sacked. And the workers who strike usually find themselves shafted.
but those workers who don't strike keep their job and are often remembered/rewarded come the next pay review.non striking posties are the only ones getting the xmas bonus.
On the railway they cut 20% of your annual bonus per shift missed through strike action.
It seems 50/50 wether strikes work or not. Train drivers have go it kushty and STILL strike because they have their management over a barrel, wheras track maintenance workers are disposable and treated as such.
It seems 50/50 wether strikes work or not. Train drivers have go it kushty and STILL strike because they have their management over a barrel, wheras track maintenance workers are disposable and treated as such.
Of course strikes work, You've only to look at our vibrant coal mining, shipbuilding, UK owned car manufacturing industries to see what a success the strikes of the 70-80's were 
If you take Liverpool for example, without the strikes in the 1970's Liverpool wouldn’t have lots of waterfront apartments, shops and bars....................Of course it no longer has the shipping industry it once had and the remaining docks seem to be made up of smaller companies or structured in such a way that strikes won’t cripple them.
I can remember as a child, the abuse hurled at some of the people responsible for transforming the Albert Docks into what they are today, the usual late 70's early 80's "socialists" in the council & unions complaining that Liverpool was losing its industrial base, even though they had been responsible for hundreds of companies going out of business, with irresponsible strike action.....................I'd love to find out if any senior union official ever lost their house or couldn’t afford to feed their children as a result of their actions, I know that the likes of Derek Hatton didn’t, when his “friends” in the unions were calling people in the council and local industry out on strike, h was filling his pockets with brown envelopes and merrily cruising round Merseyside in a bright red 6 series!
If you take Liverpool for example, without the strikes in the 1970's Liverpool wouldn’t have lots of waterfront apartments, shops and bars....................Of course it no longer has the shipping industry it once had and the remaining docks seem to be made up of smaller companies or structured in such a way that strikes won’t cripple them.
I can remember as a child, the abuse hurled at some of the people responsible for transforming the Albert Docks into what they are today, the usual late 70's early 80's "socialists" in the council & unions complaining that Liverpool was losing its industrial base, even though they had been responsible for hundreds of companies going out of business, with irresponsible strike action.....................I'd love to find out if any senior union official ever lost their house or couldn’t afford to feed their children as a result of their actions, I know that the likes of Derek Hatton didn’t, when his “friends” in the unions were calling people in the council and local industry out on strike, h was filling his pockets with brown envelopes and merrily cruising round Merseyside in a bright red 6 series!
I can't speak for the 70s/80s but I really fail to see how anybody has a "right to strike" in this day and age.
The UK/EU legislation tells you what your rights are as an employee and IMO we have it pretty good. Afterall our cousins over the pond don't get near the rights that we do.
If you're not happy with the way your employer does things then either deal with it or find work elsewhere. I fail to see the god given right an employee thinks they have to dictate how somebody else runs their company.
Refusing to do your job and then refusing to let somebody else do it for you amounts to extortion in my book. It's an archaic practice that should be canned in my opinion.
The UK/EU legislation tells you what your rights are as an employee and IMO we have it pretty good. Afterall our cousins over the pond don't get near the rights that we do.
If you're not happy with the way your employer does things then either deal with it or find work elsewhere. I fail to see the god given right an employee thinks they have to dictate how somebody else runs their company.
Refusing to do your job and then refusing to let somebody else do it for you amounts to extortion in my book. It's an archaic practice that should be canned in my opinion.
G_T said:
I can't speak for the 70s/80s but I really fail to see how anybody has a "right to strike" in this day and age.
The UK/EU legislation tells you what your rights are as an employee and IMO we have it pretty good. Afterall our cousins over the pond don't get near the rights that we do.
If you're not happy with the way your employer does things then either deal with it or find work elsewhere. I fail to see the god given right an employee thinks they have to dictate how somebody else runs their company.
Refusing to do your job and then refusing to let somebody else do it for you amounts to extortion in my book. It's an archaic practice that should be canned in my opinion.
so what happens if an employer is determined to force unfair TnC on their workforce and union talks break down?The UK/EU legislation tells you what your rights are as an employee and IMO we have it pretty good. Afterall our cousins over the pond don't get near the rights that we do.
If you're not happy with the way your employer does things then either deal with it or find work elsewhere. I fail to see the god given right an employee thinks they have to dictate how somebody else runs their company.
Refusing to do your job and then refusing to let somebody else do it for you amounts to extortion in my book. It's an archaic practice that should be canned in my opinion.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff