Gordon Brown attacks 'flat-earth' climate change sceptics
Discussion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/04/...
Guardian said:
Gordon Brown tonight led a chorus of condemnation against "flat-earth" climate change sceptics who have tried to derail the Copenhagen summit by casting doubt on the evidence for global warming.
Sceptics in the UK and the US have moved to capitalise on a series of hacked emails from climate change scientists at the University of East Anglia, claiming they show attempts to hide information that does not support the case for human activity causing rising temperatures.
On the eve of the Copenhagen summit, Saudi Arabia and Republican members of the US Congress have used the emails to claim the need for urgent action to cut carbon emissions has been undermined.
But tonight the prime minister, his environment secretary, Ed Miliband, and Ed Markey, the man who co-authored the US climate change bill, joined forces to condemn the sceptics.
"With only days to go before Copenhagen we mustn't be distracted by the behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics," Brown told the Guardian. "We know the science. We know what we must do. We must now act and close the 5bn-tonne gap. That will seal the deal."
According to the government adviser Sir Nicholas Stern, 10bn tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions must be taken out of the atmosphere by 2020. So far agreement is in place for only half of that amount.
Ed Miliband gave his most damning assessment of the sceptics yet, describing them as "dangerous and deceitful".
He said: "The approach of the climate saboteurs is to misuse data and mislead people. The sceptics are playing politics with science in a dangerous and deceitful manner. There is no easy way out of tackling climate change despite what they would have us believe. The evidence is clear and the time we have to act is short. To abandon this process now would lead to misery and catastrophe for millions."
Markey warned against allowing America's political agenda to be hijacked by the email affair. "We can no longer allow our climate and energy policy to be hijacked by the government of Saudi Arabia, ExxonMobil, and the defenders of the fossil fuel status quo," he said.
Even if an investigation into the university emails were to show evidence of wrongdoing, scientists and politicians say there is an overwhelming body of evidence that humans are causing climate change. However, the hacking affair is putting new obstacles in the way of getting a bill past Congress – seen as a crucial precondition for a binding climate change treaty.
The summit, which begins on Monday, aims to seal a global deal to control greenhouse gas emissions, but all of the significant issues remain to be resolved. There is still no agreement between developing nations and the richer countries over the carbon cuts required and the funding which must be given to poorer countries to help them cope with global warming.
China and India, whose economies are growing rapidly, must still agree a deal on curbing their emissions while being able to lift billions of people out of poverty.
The concern for some of those attempting to drive through a global deal is that the sceptics will delay critical decisions by casting doubt over the science at a time when momentum has been gathering towards a historic agreement. "The sceptics have clearly seized upon this as an incident that they can use to their own ends in trying to disrupt the Copenhagen agreements," said Bob Watson, Defra chief scientist and former head of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. "If this slows down an international agreement to significantly reduce greenhouse gases, it will mean we're committed to an even larger temperature change … with adverse consequences on agriculture, water, human security, human health and biodiversity."
Nick Clegg, the Lib Dem leader, said it would be disastrous for the planet if sceptics were able to undermine support for a climate change deal. "Ideological dinosaurs, whether in Saudi Arabia or in the Conservative party, who deny climate change must not be allowed to hide behind some leaked correspondence to support their outdated theories," Clegg said.
A number of prominent Conservatives, including former chancellor Lord Lawson and former Cameron frontbencher David Davis, have pounced on the email furore. But tonight the shadow climate change secretary, Greg Clark, made clear the party line remains that climate change is a serious man-made threat. "Research into climate change has involved thousands of different scientists, pursuing many separate lines of independent inquiry over many years. The case for a global deal is still strong and in many aspects, such as the daily destruction of the Earth's rainforests, desperately urgent," he said
Words fail me.Sceptics in the UK and the US have moved to capitalise on a series of hacked emails from climate change scientists at the University of East Anglia, claiming they show attempts to hide information that does not support the case for human activity causing rising temperatures.
On the eve of the Copenhagen summit, Saudi Arabia and Republican members of the US Congress have used the emails to claim the need for urgent action to cut carbon emissions has been undermined.
But tonight the prime minister, his environment secretary, Ed Miliband, and Ed Markey, the man who co-authored the US climate change bill, joined forces to condemn the sceptics.
"With only days to go before Copenhagen we mustn't be distracted by the behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics," Brown told the Guardian. "We know the science. We know what we must do. We must now act and close the 5bn-tonne gap. That will seal the deal."
According to the government adviser Sir Nicholas Stern, 10bn tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions must be taken out of the atmosphere by 2020. So far agreement is in place for only half of that amount.
Ed Miliband gave his most damning assessment of the sceptics yet, describing them as "dangerous and deceitful".
He said: "The approach of the climate saboteurs is to misuse data and mislead people. The sceptics are playing politics with science in a dangerous and deceitful manner. There is no easy way out of tackling climate change despite what they would have us believe. The evidence is clear and the time we have to act is short. To abandon this process now would lead to misery and catastrophe for millions."
Markey warned against allowing America's political agenda to be hijacked by the email affair. "We can no longer allow our climate and energy policy to be hijacked by the government of Saudi Arabia, ExxonMobil, and the defenders of the fossil fuel status quo," he said.
Even if an investigation into the university emails were to show evidence of wrongdoing, scientists and politicians say there is an overwhelming body of evidence that humans are causing climate change. However, the hacking affair is putting new obstacles in the way of getting a bill past Congress – seen as a crucial precondition for a binding climate change treaty.
The summit, which begins on Monday, aims to seal a global deal to control greenhouse gas emissions, but all of the significant issues remain to be resolved. There is still no agreement between developing nations and the richer countries over the carbon cuts required and the funding which must be given to poorer countries to help them cope with global warming.
China and India, whose economies are growing rapidly, must still agree a deal on curbing their emissions while being able to lift billions of people out of poverty.
The concern for some of those attempting to drive through a global deal is that the sceptics will delay critical decisions by casting doubt over the science at a time when momentum has been gathering towards a historic agreement. "The sceptics have clearly seized upon this as an incident that they can use to their own ends in trying to disrupt the Copenhagen agreements," said Bob Watson, Defra chief scientist and former head of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. "If this slows down an international agreement to significantly reduce greenhouse gases, it will mean we're committed to an even larger temperature change … with adverse consequences on agriculture, water, human security, human health and biodiversity."
Nick Clegg, the Lib Dem leader, said it would be disastrous for the planet if sceptics were able to undermine support for a climate change deal. "Ideological dinosaurs, whether in Saudi Arabia or in the Conservative party, who deny climate change must not be allowed to hide behind some leaked correspondence to support their outdated theories," Clegg said.
A number of prominent Conservatives, including former chancellor Lord Lawson and former Cameron frontbencher David Davis, have pounced on the email furore. But tonight the shadow climate change secretary, Greg Clark, made clear the party line remains that climate change is a serious man-made threat. "Research into climate change has involved thousands of different scientists, pursuing many separate lines of independent inquiry over many years. The case for a global deal is still strong and in many aspects, such as the daily destruction of the Earth's rainforests, desperately urgent," he said
Edited by Stevenj214 on Saturday 5th December 19:21
Both Miliband brothers opened the Science Museum's prove it campaign,
http://www.prisonplanet.com/science-museum-prove-i...
http://www.prisonplanet.com/science-museum-prove-i...
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
A point that people who dare challenge 'scientific consensus' are "behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics"? I thought the whole basis of science was questioning; asking why.He mentions 'flat earth'. If his comments were made at the time when flat earth was the accepted scientific consensus then Pythagoras and Aristotle would be the "behind-the-times, anti-science" voice.
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?Do carry on though, I'm off to the pub.
smn159 said:
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?Do carry on though, I'm off to the pub.
smn159 said:
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?Do carry on though, I'm off to the pub.
The majority of the human race believes in some sort of celestial dictatorship, but it doesn't mean it is true.
Edited by 6655321 on Saturday 5th December 19:36
smn159 said:
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?Do carry on though, I'm off to the pub.
Sand
Point proved.
One thing that we can be certain of is that the is not decided one way or the other. Claiming it is is itself akin to being a 'flat earth denier'
The BBC report this morning on the issuing of the MET office data was basically saying if you don't think MMGW is happening you are wrong. The issue is decided and you are as bad a pre Columbus idiot.
Science and scientific debate doesn't work that way.
The BBC report this morning on the issuing of the MET office data was basically saying if you don't think MMGW is happening you are wrong. The issue is decided and you are as bad a pre Columbus idiot.
Science and scientific debate doesn't work that way.
smn159 said:
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
If action is needed, I've no problem taking action.What I do have a problem with is critical descisions affecting the lives of millions being based on the spun interpretation of manipulated data.
Show me the actual proof and I'll be right on board. Until then I remain skeptical and am offended by the way I'm being addressed by my countries prime minister.
smn159 said:
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?Do carry on though, I'm off to the pub.
smn159 said:
essexplumber said:
smn159 said:
He's got a point though, despite what you might read on Pistonheads...
What do you mean?Do carry on though, I'm off to the pub.
I'm not convinced that man made CO2 is the sole cause of this.
I'm not convinced that global warming is the most serious threat to mankind, in either the short or long term.
I am convinced that global warming is being used to increase taxation.
Does that make me a sceptic?
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