What's actually involved in flying a modern airliner?
Discussion
As I'm off on a longish haul flight over the weekend I found myself wondering how much time the pilots actually spend with their hands on the control column? Is it largely computer controlled barring take off and landing (and anything unexpected) or is there more to it?
...Let me rephrase that, I'm sure there's a lot involved in safely piloting a plane, but how much is hands on?
...Let me rephrase that, I'm sure there's a lot involved in safely piloting a plane, but how much is hands on?
Chris71 said:
As I'm off on a longish haul flight over the weekend I found myself wondering how much time the pilots actually spend with their hands on the control column? Is it largely computer controlled barring take off and landing (and anything unexpected) or is there more to it?
...Let me rephrase that, I'm sure there's a lot involved in safely piloting a plane, but how much is hands on?
I'm no expert, but my friend is a pilot for easyjet. He tells me that most of the time the plane is on autopilot, and therefore the pilot need not actually hold the column....Let me rephrase that, I'm sure there's a lot involved in safely piloting a plane, but how much is hands on?
The key thing about pilots is what they do when things go wrong. I guess that's the same in a variety of industries concerned with safety but performing a task. Hence you can't give an unskilled technician the task of flying a plane as they haven't had the necessary training to cope with emergency situations.
I think pretty much all of it can be done on autopilot now. I was on a flight some time ago where all the southern airports except Luton were closed down by fog. All you could see from the air was orange spots from street lights blurred by all the fog. Pilot came on the loudspeaker saying they were going in with 'autoland'. We were hanging for ages and it's the only time I've ever seen the lights alongside the runway go from green to red....
Dunno about newer stuff but apparently on a 747-400 you can hit the button once you're about 500 feet in the air after takeoff, and the next thing you need to worry about is finding your parking space. As said above though the pilot's really there for when things go wrong, there's not many autopilots capable of putting it down safely on the Hudson.
The old joke is that future airliners will have a pilot and a dog in the cockpit. The pilot's there to feed the dog and the dog's there to bite the pilot if he goes near the controls.
The old joke is that future airliners will have a pilot and a dog in the cockpit. The pilot's there to feed the dog and the dog's there to bite the pilot if he goes near the controls.
RizzoTheRat said:
The old joke is that future airliners will have a pilot and a dog in the cockpit. The pilot's there to feed the dog and the dog's there to bite the pilot if he goes near the controls.
That's better than the joke I'd heard on the subject...A group of journalists and dignitaries are invited for the official unveiling of the world's first pilotless passenger plane. Before taking off they're told that there are no controls and no pilots on board. Once they're airborne a computerised voice comes over the tannoy and says:
"Good morning ladies and gentlemen, welcome to your flight.
Today we shall be cruising at 33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000
33,000 ...
RizzoTheRat said:
there's not many autopilots capable of putting it down safely on the Hudson.
That's the bit. I've been on a flight where the pilot came on and said they had lost all the screens and auto pilot had decided to quit. They had restored 1 screen and were flying manually using that.Now I wasn't particularly worried as the Pilot had the ability to fly the plane. I'm not so sure I'd have been as happy if there was just "Kevin from IT" dialling in from his spare room on a satellite link to reset the Autopilot.
456mgt said:
We were hanging for ages and it's the only time I've ever seen the lights alongside the runway go from green to red....
As some comedian said - 'If the lights then change back to green you're REALLY low as the light is filtering through the grass...'I hear a good trick is for the Captain to run down the aisle strapping on a parachute as he goes.
Simpo Two said:
As some comedian said - 'If the lights then change back to green you're REALLY low as the light is filtering through the grass...'
David Gunson? Dunno what I've done with my my copy of "What goes up must come down" but if you've never heard it it's well worth a listen.Modern airliners aren't too taxing on your handflying skills on a daily basis, though it certainly isn't an "easy" job. There is a whole lot more to it than just the flying though. We have many tools at our disposal to help us, but you have to know how to use them and that takes a lot of practise and knowledge.
Autoflight systems are themselves very complex and have many foibles that need to be watched carefully. Aircraft like Airbus take the pilot one step further away from the handflying by ensuring that the autopilot is involved at all times. You cannot simply kick it off and fly manually, there is always a residue of control and protection offered by the autoflight system.
Flying an airbus is more akin to driving a complex computer system than handflying an old fashioned stick and rudder machine with totally manual controls. It is safer, but it doesn't quite give the same enjoyment of flying as something like a 737 by hand does.
However, since we pilots are invariably the weakest link in the accident chain, this is a small price to pay, though it doesn't mean that an Airbus is uncrashable.
Flying is very different from how it was 30 years ago. It's more difficult, even if the tools we have now make certain aspects of the job simpler.
To answer the OP's question. The take off will be manual, everyone is different when it comes to when the automatics go in, but you want to do it fairly early so that you free up the other crew memeber to get onto the other tasks. When you are handflying, the other pilot is monitoring you, when the autopilot is in, you (as Pilot Flying) monitor the autopilot and let the PNF get on with other things.
You don't really want to be handflying a passenger jet when you are up at altitude. It can be done of course, but it is tricky to get it spot on.
Autopilots have been around for a long, long time, it's just that today's are very sophisticated and encompass more than just holding a course or altitude. Autothrust systems help enormously too, though you are always ready incase they crap themselves. Which does happen quite alot!
Autoflight systems are themselves very complex and have many foibles that need to be watched carefully. Aircraft like Airbus take the pilot one step further away from the handflying by ensuring that the autopilot is involved at all times. You cannot simply kick it off and fly manually, there is always a residue of control and protection offered by the autoflight system.
Flying an airbus is more akin to driving a complex computer system than handflying an old fashioned stick and rudder machine with totally manual controls. It is safer, but it doesn't quite give the same enjoyment of flying as something like a 737 by hand does.
However, since we pilots are invariably the weakest link in the accident chain, this is a small price to pay, though it doesn't mean that an Airbus is uncrashable.
Flying is very different from how it was 30 years ago. It's more difficult, even if the tools we have now make certain aspects of the job simpler.
To answer the OP's question. The take off will be manual, everyone is different when it comes to when the automatics go in, but you want to do it fairly early so that you free up the other crew memeber to get onto the other tasks. When you are handflying, the other pilot is monitoring you, when the autopilot is in, you (as Pilot Flying) monitor the autopilot and let the PNF get on with other things.
You don't really want to be handflying a passenger jet when you are up at altitude. It can be done of course, but it is tricky to get it spot on.
Autopilots have been around for a long, long time, it's just that today's are very sophisticated and encompass more than just holding a course or altitude. Autothrust systems help enormously too, though you are always ready incase they crap themselves. Which does happen quite alot!
Edited by IforB on Friday 4th December 14:26
Sorry E_S. I forgot about the law of the internet. Yep, a couple of goes on MS Flightsim equips you completely to take command of any passenger jet at anytime. We're just trained monkeys at the end of the day and I have no idea why we bother getting licences and ratings anymore. All you need to do is to download the latest plug-in on your PC and you're away.
IforB said:
Sorry E_S. I forgot about the law of the internet. Yep, a couple of goes on MS Flightsim equips you completely to take command of any passenger jet at anytime. We're just trained monkeys at the end of the day and I have no idea why we bother getting licences and ratings anymore. All you need to do is to download the latest plug-in on your PC and you're away.
Soovy said:
Planes can fly themselves these days.
. . except stuff like checking the weather/NOTAMS and taking the correct amount of fuel and checking everything's O.K. at the aircraft and setting up all the FMC/FMGS and starting the engines and taxying the aircraft and then doing the take off and gear/flap retraction and then following ATC and telling the autopilot what to do and avoiding mountains/weather/other aircraft en route and knowing where you'd go when things go wrong and knowing what the weather's like there and flying an efficient CDA approach at the set speeds required and lowering the flaps and gear and doing the landing and the taxying in and shutting down again etc etcI was on the flight of a 747 coming to land at very badly lit runway in West Africa a few years ago. It's night-time, the only system on the field that's working is the beacon. Totally manual landing, smooth as you like. It was tense in the cockpit, but professional. Obviously not something they do very often, but taken in their stride. Was very classy flying, the people down the back had no idea.
I saw the 1st Officer a couple of days later at his hotel and asked him about it. "Yeah, that was good fun." He said. "Don't get many of those these days, shame as getting it right is one of the best parts of the job."
So yeah, I'm pretty sure a computer would be totally flummoxed by that.
I saw the 1st Officer a couple of days later at his hotel and asked him about it. "Yeah, that was good fun." He said. "Don't get many of those these days, shame as getting it right is one of the best parts of the job."
So yeah, I'm pretty sure a computer would be totally flummoxed by that.
...and it's not like you can even generalise about airline pilots either. Some love aerobatics, flying warbirds, microlights etc while others are uncomfortable beyond a 40 degree angle of bank & have very little confidence in light aircraft - it's a broad school. I've known two airline pilots of each type - one an ex-WWII fighter pilot (later a Wing Commander)who stayed in to fly Venoms, Canberras etc before joining an airline & the other an ex-WWII bomber pilot. The former described the latter (they knew each other & flew for the same airline) as a typical "heavy" pilot - very conservative & fearful of unusual attitudes (which some would argue is fine for airline flying).
Well if it's a Jet Airways flight it's best to keep all the flight crew out of the cabin !
Was reading in the paper that a senior pilot decided he'd check the main pilots reactions by pulling the circuit breaker that handles the the electronic flight director and the ground proximity warning as well !
The plane was flying at 3,700 feet with 100 passengers , probably not the best time to do it !
Was reading in the paper that a senior pilot decided he'd check the main pilots reactions by pulling the circuit breaker that handles the the electronic flight director and the ground proximity warning as well !
The plane was flying at 3,700 feet with 100 passengers , probably not the best time to do it !
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