Anyone seen the Lloyds share price this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[johnfm]

Dropped 30%

Oil dropped $2.80

Dubai washing through?

[anonymous-user]

What's this Dubai stuff about. Payment postponement for Dubai world debt?

If the wheels are coming off in Dubai they certainly seem to be going out in style.

[Bing o]

Obviously. Lots of fingers in that pie.
Wonder if this is the second phase of the economic melt down, or just a load of tasteless Arabs getting a good kicking?

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Why thouogh?

Will Dubai let Dubai World et all default?

Surely against their morals and law?

[johnfm]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I thought it was worth £50/point. If it dives further, so be it. If it recovers a bit, Xmas pressies paid for.

[ShadownINja]

RBS?

PS what's "a bit"?

Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 27th November 10:41

[ShadownINja]

Was replying to johnfm's post. So this banking movement is nothing to do with Dubai?

Currency fell quite a bit yesterday. (GBPUSD by 300 pips or 3c; AUDUSD by nearly 400 pips when usual daily range is around 100 pips.)

[youngsyr]

From reading the Times this morning, yesterday's falls were caused by a few factors:

1) Dubai fueled it's massive growth using debt and the stand still request shows that they can't service it. This alone isn't that big a deal because the debt at risk of default isn't truly massive (it's somewhere around £60bn, IIRC), but...

2) The Dubai debt is in a company owned by the Dubai government and linked to the Royal Family, so if they can't service the debt in that company, it's likely a lot of other debts may go bust. This is compounded by...

3) The markets couldn't ascertain what the banks exposure to Dubai and so panicked, further exacerbated by...

4) The announcement of the standstill was timed to coincide with the markets closing in the US for Thanksgiving and in the Middle East for Eid, adding to the confusion. Then...

5) A telephone conference call with the company and debt holders was cancelled because the network fell over from too many users, hence stirring up fears about a lot more people being involved than it seems at first glance. On top of that...

6) People are worried that Abu Dhabi may not step in with rescue loans to bail out Dubai.

[Trommel]

youngsyr said:

People are worried that Abu Dhabi may not step in with rescue loans to bail out Dubai.

They might let them sweat for a bit, but I can't see them standing by and watching them fall.

[youngsyr]

Trommel said:

youngsyr said:

People are worried that Abu Dhabi may not step in with rescue loans to bail out Dubai.

They might let them sweat for a bit, but I can't see them standing by and watching them fall.

Can you explain the link between Abu Dhabi and Dubai? I can understand that a neighbouring country failing isn't going to help you out, but Dubai has very little petro-dollars, whereas Abu Dhabi has huge oil reserves, so the fall-out won't be too severe for it, will it?

[Bing o]

youngsyr said:

Trommel said:

youngsyr said:

People are worried that Abu Dhabi may not step in with rescue loans to bail out Dubai.

They might let them sweat for a bit, but I can't see them standing by and watching them fall.

Can you explain the link between Abu Dhabi and Dubai? I can understand that a neighbouring country failing isn't going to help you out, but Dubai has very little petro-dollars, whereas Abu Dhabi has huge oil reserves, so the fall-out won't be too severe for it, will it?

United Arab Emirates Maybe?

It's sort of like Wales having financial difficulties.

Given that Shariah banking punishes defaulting on sukuk's by jailing people, I wonder what will happen...

[youngsyr]

Bing o said:

youngsyr said:

Trommel said:

youngsyr said:

People are worried that Abu Dhabi may not step in with rescue loans to bail out Dubai.

They might let them sweat for a bit, but I can't see them standing by and watching them fall.

Can you explain the link between Abu Dhabi and Dubai? I can understand that a neighbouring country failing isn't going to help you out, but Dubai has very little petro-dollars, whereas Abu Dhabi has huge oil reserves, so the fall-out won't be too severe for it, will it?

United Arab Emirates Maybe?

It's sort of like Wales having financial difficulties.

Given that Shariah banking punishes defaulting on sukuk's by jailing people, I wonder what will happen...

Perhaps I didn't make my query clear, what's special about the relationship between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, as opposed to the five other emirates, or is it simply that they don't have any oil either?

[Trommel]

Abu Dhabi have gas, and lots of it.

[Bing o]

youngsyr said:

Perhaps I didn't make my query clear, what's special about the relationship between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, as opposed to the five other emirates, or is it simply that they don't have any oil either?

Gotcha. Well I guess the other Emirates all have sufficient Oil not to have gotten themselves into a debt based boom based on property speculation like Dubai, so don't need bailing out.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out - if Abu Dhabi don't help out Dubai, then it's hard to say where the ball will finish rolling - there's a lot of UK construction money owed, plus lots of overseas banking investment...

[johnfm]

fesuvious said:

Lloyds went 'ex rights' today, hence the drop.

Which actually equates for many holders that have purchased the new shares to @91p, which is UP from yesterdays close.

I thought this may have been the case - this is just a 'revalue' to reflect the 1:1.34 issue then.

[Tom74]

Bing o said:

youngsyr said:

Perhaps I didn't make my query clear, what's special about the relationship between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, as opposed to the five other emirates, or is it simply that they don't have any oil either?

Gotcha. Well I guess the other Emirates all have sufficient Oil not to have gotten themselves into a debt based boom based on property speculation like Dubai, so don't need bailing out.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out - if Abu Dhabi don't help out Dubai, then it's hard to say where the ball will finish rolling - there's a lot of UK construction money owed, plus lots of overseas banking investment...

The other emirates have even less petrodollars than Dubai but equally they haven't been spending money to the same degree on everything.

Still can't see abu dhabi not coming to the rescue though.

[Bing o]

Tom74 said:

The other emirates have even less petrodollars than Dubai but equally they haven't been spending money to the same degree on everything.

Still can't see abu dhabi not coming to the rescue though.

Really? That's funny because Dubai has the least oil out of them.

[Zod]

fesuvious said:

Lloyds went 'ex rights' today, hence the drop.

Which actually equates for many holders that have purchased the new shares to @91p, which is UP from yesterdays close.

OP, did you read this?

Were you unaware of the rights issue?

[cheadle hulme]

I make it a Theoretical ex rights price of around 82p (at todays close of 58p) so they've still taken a battering.

They were at 94p before the Dubai news broke.

[FourWheelDrift]

BigJonMcQuimm said:

Why thouogh?

Will Dubai let Dubai World et all default?

Surely against their morals and law?

Morals? These are people who still use a form of slave labour. 250,000 foreign workers from SE Asia being paid less than $10 a day to build their follies.