Train fare dodging
Discussion
Been o nthe train recently and came across 2 contrasting situations
1) Guy finds a man who 'forgot' to buy a ticket and doesn;t have any money on him - basically smelt like a tramp and the train guy knew he wasn't going to get any money off him so just carted him off the train at the next station.
2) Woman forgot her Young Person Rail card (but had an otherwise valid ticket (i.e it was only invalid because she didn;t have her YPRC, but invalid non the less). The train guy basically gave her the choice of buying another ticket then and there or facing a £120 foine. Due to the girl crying and the guy being busy he eventually gave her a chance to find the money from somewhere (she couldnt - because she had left her purse somewhere along with her YPRC) - anyway he eventually invalidated her ticket so when she got on her connecting train she would have to buy a new ticket from somewhere or get the peopel at the station to allow her to travel onwards for free.
ANYWAY
My question is what if you were somewhat a mix of the 2 - a respectable looking person who refused to pay on purpose?
i.e ticket man catches you, but you say so what I am not paying or giving any details.
I am guessing its a criminal offence to fare dodge (theft?0 so he would try to get you arrested, but can he atcually restrain you?
1) Guy finds a man who 'forgot' to buy a ticket and doesn;t have any money on him - basically smelt like a tramp and the train guy knew he wasn't going to get any money off him so just carted him off the train at the next station.
2) Woman forgot her Young Person Rail card (but had an otherwise valid ticket (i.e it was only invalid because she didn;t have her YPRC, but invalid non the less). The train guy basically gave her the choice of buying another ticket then and there or facing a £120 foine. Due to the girl crying and the guy being busy he eventually gave her a chance to find the money from somewhere (she couldnt - because she had left her purse somewhere along with her YPRC) - anyway he eventually invalidated her ticket so when she got on her connecting train she would have to buy a new ticket from somewhere or get the peopel at the station to allow her to travel onwards for free.
ANYWAY
My question is what if you were somewhat a mix of the 2 - a respectable looking person who refused to pay on purpose?
i.e ticket man catches you, but you say so what I am not paying or giving any details.
I am guessing its a criminal offence to fare dodge (theft?0 so he would try to get you arrested, but can he atcually restrain you?
Pesty said:
I like this quote on that page..."Would this be the same Ken Livingstone who introduced the congestion charge which is notorously bad in terms of customer service."
Mojooo said:
Been o nthe train recently and came across 2 contrasting situations
1) Guy finds a man who 'forgot' to buy a ticket and doesn;t have any money on him - basically smelt like a tramp and the train guy knew he wasn't going to get any money off him so just carted him off the train at the next station.
2) Woman forgot her Young Person Rail card (but had an otherwise valid ticket (i.e it was only invalid because she didn;t have her YPRC, but invalid non the less). The train guy basically gave her the choice of buying another ticket then and there or facing a £120 foine. Due to the girl crying and the guy being busy he eventually gave her a chance to find the money from somewhere (she couldnt - because she had left her purse somewhere along with her YPRC) - anyway he eventually invalidated her ticket so when she got on her connecting train she would have to buy a new ticket from somewhere or get the peopel at the station to allow her to travel onwards for free.
ANYWAY
My question is what if you were somewhat a mix of the 2 - a respectable looking person who refused to pay on purpose?
i.e ticket man catches you, but you say so what I am not paying or giving any details.
I am guessing its a criminal offence to fare dodge (theft?0 so he would try to get you arrested, but can he atcually restrain you?
I had the same situation with my YPRC when I was coming down from Liverpool to London.1) Guy finds a man who 'forgot' to buy a ticket and doesn;t have any money on him - basically smelt like a tramp and the train guy knew he wasn't going to get any money off him so just carted him off the train at the next station.
2) Woman forgot her Young Person Rail card (but had an otherwise valid ticket (i.e it was only invalid because she didn;t have her YPRC, but invalid non the less). The train guy basically gave her the choice of buying another ticket then and there or facing a £120 foine. Due to the girl crying and the guy being busy he eventually gave her a chance to find the money from somewhere (she couldnt - because she had left her purse somewhere along with her YPRC) - anyway he eventually invalidated her ticket so when she got on her connecting train she would have to buy a new ticket from somewhere or get the peopel at the station to allow her to travel onwards for free.
ANYWAY
My question is what if you were somewhat a mix of the 2 - a respectable looking person who refused to pay on purpose?
i.e ticket man catches you, but you say so what I am not paying or giving any details.
I am guessing its a criminal offence to fare dodge (theft?0 so he would try to get you arrested, but can he atcually restrain you?
I offered to give him my details from my driving license and then come to Liverpool station at a time of his choosing to show him my card. He said this wasn't good enough as I may have lent it to somebody- he didn't seem convinced when I mentioned that I wouldn't lend something I need and that it had my bloody photo on it.
In the end I managed to argue that he was being unreasonable and was let off. What really annoyed me was that he was being an arse just because he could, if I'd been some scummer who would just do a runner then he probably wouldn't have done anything.
I once flew into Gatwick, my sister was taking the train from Enfield and we were going on to Brighton. Silly mare bought a ticket as far as Gatwick, she thought she'd have to wait around on me a while and intended on getting the ticket for the rest of the trip in Gatwick. Well, I get off the plane, straight to the train bit, get my ticket and call my sister... she's on the train that's pulling into Gatwick right at that minute so I jump on and find her. A few mins later, the conductor comes along, she has her money ready and waiting to get a ticket but the prick still went out of his way to make her feel like a criminal.
Him: Ticket.
Her: Gatwick to Brighton please.
Him: Why didn't you buy a ticket in Gatwick?
Her: <explains>
Him: How do I know you didn't get on before Gatwick?
Her: Well, here's my ticket from Enfield to Gatwick like I said.
Him: You could have picked that up right now, I don't know you bought that.
Her: ...........
Him: This train departed from <insert some London station>, I'll have to charge you from there.
Me: Look pal, she's already told you, she got the train to Gatwick to meet me, she thought she'd be in Gatwick long enough to buy a ticket, now sell her a frigging ticket and stop trying to come the big man making her look a
in front of all these people.
Him: (to my sister) And you got on in Gatwick?
Me: <facepalm>
Her: Yes.
Him: That'll be <some money> please.
Would he have done this had she been a scruffy tramp? Probably not, respectable-looking female, he thought he'd make an example of her, make himself feel like he maybe didn't need to try at school after all. Boiled my pish.
Him: Ticket.
Her: Gatwick to Brighton please.
Him: Why didn't you buy a ticket in Gatwick?
Her: <explains>
Him: How do I know you didn't get on before Gatwick?
Her: Well, here's my ticket from Enfield to Gatwick like I said.
Him: You could have picked that up right now, I don't know you bought that.
Her: ...........
Him: This train departed from <insert some London station>, I'll have to charge you from there.
Me: Look pal, she's already told you, she got the train to Gatwick to meet me, she thought she'd be in Gatwick long enough to buy a ticket, now sell her a frigging ticket and stop trying to come the big man making her look a
in front of all these people.Him: (to my sister) And you got on in Gatwick?
Me: <facepalm>
Her: Yes.
Him: That'll be <some money> please.
Would he have done this had she been a scruffy tramp? Probably not, respectable-looking female, he thought he'd make an example of her, make himself feel like he maybe didn't need to try at school after all. Boiled my pish.
otolith said:
Agree with Tonker - the c**ts fined me when the ticket machine at the station was out of order.
I never use the train unless absolutely essential.
i'v had this happen before. some moron had rammed matches right inside the coin slot and ticket nazi refused to listen and fined me 10 quid. I never use the train unless absolutely essential.
all for the privilidge of standing up in a train that stunk of pi5s...
As I understand it, if you are in a restaurant and refuse to pay, because of poor food, but can demonstrate the means to pay, then it is a civil not a criminal matter. Can't you run a similar argument if the ticket machine can be shown to be out of order, and you have the means to pay when asked. I accept that you could not do this if stopped exiting the station on arrival
when I used to take the train about 10 yrs ago the rules were, if you get on without a ticket, find the ticket inspector or at least try to - if you are sitting down and chilling without a ticket, he will fine you.
as a kid, you just hide in the crapper - he knows this and will wait outside, but if you time it well he does not have time to do anything before the train moves on.
as a kid, you just hide in the crapper - he knows this and will wait outside, but if you time it well he does not have time to do anything before the train moves on.
Back in maybe 2005 I worked quite a distance from home, about 3 weeks into the job my car got stolen from outside the house, meaning I had to rely on public transport.
At a large train station I enquired about bus and train passes, and got one that apparently got me both, to my destination. (I could either get busses, or bus and train) The first time I used the pass on the train I got told I wasnt allowed to use it outside West Yorkshire (My stop was first stop outside WY)
I wrote to Northern Rail, and Metro, explaining the situation. The only reply I got (a good few months down the line) was a summons.
Now, Once again I've found myself carless, but i work from home. If there isnt a car available that I'm insured on, I will either walk or not go out at all. I'm never going to directly contribute to public transport company again after that.
/rant (2/10.. yeah i know)
At a large train station I enquired about bus and train passes, and got one that apparently got me both, to my destination. (I could either get busses, or bus and train) The first time I used the pass on the train I got told I wasnt allowed to use it outside West Yorkshire (My stop was first stop outside WY)
I wrote to Northern Rail, and Metro, explaining the situation. The only reply I got (a good few months down the line) was a summons.
Now, Once again I've found myself carless, but i work from home. If there isnt a car available that I'm insured on, I will either walk or not go out at all. I'm never going to directly contribute to public transport company again after that.
/rant (2/10.. yeah i know)
When I was 15 on the way back from school one day, the jobsworth accused me of being over 16, and therefore requiring an adult ticket. He asked for some ID. "I'm 15, I don't have any ID. Look in my wallet."
He held the train up at the station while he argued with me, until eventually some other people in the carriage began to speak up. They were mainly worried about being late, but still it was the only reason he actually let me go, after taking my name and address.
Couple of weeks later my parents get a letter asking for the difference in the fare, and a £30 penalty. They ignored it, and never heard from them again.
A few years later I got the train from Gatwick, intending to stop off at my parents in Wokingham to borrow their car before heading down to see the missus in Southampton. Got a call on the train to say the car failed its MOT and was still being fixed, so I decided to head straight down on the train. Trying to explain to the ticket wker that I needed a ticket from Wokingham to Southampton was like trying to nail a jelly to the wall. He insisted that if I was planning on travelling to Southampton, I should buy a ticket from the station we had just left (about 3 down from Gatwick) instead of from Wokingham.
In the end I had to jump off the train in Wokingham, quickly buy a ticket from the machine and jump back on. Absolute tosser.
accused me of being over 16, and therefore requiring an adult ticket. He asked for some ID. "I'm 15, I don't have any ID. Look in my wallet."He held the train up at the station while he argued with me, until eventually some other people in the carriage began to speak up. They were mainly worried about being late, but still it was the only reason he actually let me go, after taking my name and address.
Couple of weeks later my parents get a letter asking for the difference in the fare, and a £30 penalty. They ignored it, and never heard from them again.
A few years later I got the train from Gatwick, intending to stop off at my parents in Wokingham to borrow their car before heading down to see the missus in Southampton. Got a call on the train to say the car failed its MOT and was still being fixed, so I decided to head straight down on the train. Trying to explain to the ticket w
ker that I needed a ticket from Wokingham to Southampton was like trying to nail a jelly to the wall. He insisted that if I was planning on travelling to Southampton, I should buy a ticket from the station we had just left (about 3 down from Gatwick) instead of from Wokingham.In the end I had to jump off the train in Wokingham, quickly buy a ticket from the machine and jump back on. Absolute tosser.
I've forgotten my ticket a few times but have got into the habit of keeping the receipt in my wallet so I can at least show the nice man that I've given them money recently.
I've had to buy a ticket to cover my journey but have been able to claim that back on production of the missing season ticket.
I have occasionally chanced my arm when I've bought an advance ticket and got on an earlier train (hardly the crime of the century).
It is quite suprising the amount of people who don't buy tickets and get pulled up.
I've had to buy a ticket to cover my journey but have been able to claim that back on production of the missing season ticket.
I have occasionally chanced my arm when I've bought an advance ticket and got on an earlier train (hardly the crime of the century).
It is quite suprising the amount of people who don't buy tickets and get pulled up.
Only once fallen foul of the ticket inspector but I guess inadvertantly travelled a few times illegally.
Few years back was on the train due to car in dock, every day parts promised arrive tomorrow, then again next day and so on. So every day when I wasn't going home in the car I'd go to the station, ask for a return to Sheffield, pay for it, use the outward ticket to go home, and the return bit the next morning. This was simply to avoid the massive queue at the ticket offices in the morning.
What I never noticed was that some days, perhaps every day who knows, they were giving me a day return, it was exactly double the price of a single. Ask for a return get two tickets, pay double the price of a single, seemed OK to me.
One day the ticket inspector picked up on that the ticket was out of date, unlike his colleagues the previous 8-10 days who had just clipped and moved on.
I refused to buy another ticket nor pay a penalty because I'd asked for a return, the fact that they'd sold me something other than what I'd asked for and not explained the situation was their fault. See you in court as I've paid you exactly the same amount of money as if I'd bought two singles.
Never heard another thing.
That evening when I went to the ticket office as VW had failed yet again on the parts, and being law abiding kind of individual asked for a single. Ticket guy recognised me and commented about no return today. Nope I say, apparently you can only sell me a day return for that route and told him the story of that morning. Even he claimed not to know about only a day return being available, which might have been covering his ass I dunno.
What chance have we when the staff are confused and don't sing the same song.
Few years back was on the train due to car in dock, every day parts promised arrive tomorrow, then again next day and so on. So every day when I wasn't going home in the car I'd go to the station, ask for a return to Sheffield, pay for it, use the outward ticket to go home, and the return bit the next morning. This was simply to avoid the massive queue at the ticket offices in the morning.
What I never noticed was that some days, perhaps every day who knows, they were giving me a day return, it was exactly double the price of a single. Ask for a return get two tickets, pay double the price of a single, seemed OK to me.
One day the ticket inspector picked up on that the ticket was out of date, unlike his colleagues the previous 8-10 days who had just clipped and moved on.
I refused to buy another ticket nor pay a penalty because I'd asked for a return, the fact that they'd sold me something other than what I'd asked for and not explained the situation was their fault. See you in court as I've paid you exactly the same amount of money as if I'd bought two singles.
Never heard another thing.
That evening when I went to the ticket office as VW had failed yet again on the parts, and being law abiding kind of individual asked for a single. Ticket guy recognised me and commented about no return today. Nope I say, apparently you can only sell me a day return for that route and told him the story of that morning. Even he claimed not to know about only a day return being available, which might have been covering his ass I dunno.
What chance have we when the staff are confused and don't sing the same song.
There are loads of instances where it is simply not possible to get the ticket or have it validated before you get on the train. From that perspective if the train company can have a guy go through the train to inspect tickets they should also have the capability to sell tickets. The argument that it is unsafe for conductors to sell tickets because of the money security is negated by the fact that many of them will happilly collect your fine.
F i F said:
What I never noticed was that some days, perhaps every day who knows, they were giving me a day return, it was exactly double the price of a single. Ask for a return get two tickets, pay double the price of a single, seemed OK to me.
Something wrong there - one of the bizzare pricing things is that day return is usually cheaper than a single.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff