Livingstone starting to show true colours
Discussion
This is from the Standard online.
I was thinking about protests the other day and it occurred to me that the most effective thing to do would be the opposite of the obvious. All us London commuters should leave our cars and bikes at home and use public transport. This would completely overload the network and would demonstrate what a farce this whole process is. We'd all need to take the day off work, because very few of us would get there...
'Secret plan' to keep out cars
by David Williams Motoring Editor
Mayor Ken Livingstone is working on "secret" plans to prevent motorists driving into London - by rigging the traffic lights, it is claimed today.
His engineers are modifying them so traffic flow into the city can be dramatically reduced via a central computer and drivers will face a "sea" of red lights that will hamper their progress in outer and inner London.
The proposals include allowing longer right turns that hinder main road traffic, more "green light" periods for side roads and longer intervals for pedestrians.
The measures are considered vital by the Mayor to prevent gridlock in inner London when congestion charging begins in February. Without them, unprecedented levels of traffic could build up around the boundary, as drivers divert to avoid the £5-a-day charge. Only by cutting off the flow at the outskirts, critics claim, can congestion charging be proven to "work".
The first effects could be felt in the autumn when drivers are expected to blame delays on the "back to work" flood after the summer, or on roadworks, council schemes and accidents, it is claimed. In fact, their journeys will have been sacrificed to guarantee the success of the Mayor's scheme.
Motoring organisations reacted furiously today. They claimed London was duped into accepting congestion charging without being warned about wider implications.
Kevin Delaney of the RAC Foundation, said: "We said all along that congestion charging could only work if the Mayor increased the capacity of public transport and of the inner ring road. Now it seems the only thing the Mayor is planning to do is hold up traffic much further out. These are secret plans to move congestion from the centre to the rest of London."
The Corporation of the City of London, Westminster council and Kensington and Chelsea led attacks on the plan.
Joe Weiss, the corporation's strategic transportation director, recommended in an internal report that it "demand no artificial choke points be established outside the zone that deter traffic seeking access to the City" as this would have a " deleterious economic effect".
He told the Standard: "This has not been consulted upon. I have frequently asked [the Mayor's body] Transport for London what are the rules of engagement for controlling traffic - and each time I have been pooh-poohed away."
Daniel Moylan, Kensington and Chelsea's deputy leader, claimed that on routes leading out of London traffic lights will "open up like a tap" to prevent cars from clogging up the inner ring road, with "dire consequences" for traffic on side roads and pedestrians.
Charles Cronin, Westminster council's cabinet member for transport, said: "Public transport can never perform as well as the car so they want to drag everything down to the same level."
Sources claim scores of traffic lights have already been adapted to facilitate the "stranglehold", with new microprocessors costing around £200 each. One said: "This is macro-control of traffic to ensure you have a 'doughnut' of congestion around the outside to stop people reaching the inside. Initially it will be just a few seconds and motorists will scarcely notice. But the full effect will gradually be wound up to hold traffic back so there are fewer vehicles in central London."
Worst-hit will be drivers making local journeys such as school runs in between the inner ring road that marks out the charging zone boundary - and the north and south circulars. Congestion will not be allowed to hinder buses, however. There will be more bus lanes and special junctions allowing buses to circumvent queues. More will have transponders that turn lights green when they approach.
TfL denies that it has "secret plans" to stifle traffic flow to ensure the success of congestion charging. A spokesman insisted that although traffic lights were being linked to a central computer, this was to eradicate congestion.
He denied traffic would be rationed at key entry points and said although some new light phasing would be introduced it would not be as early as the autumn. "There is no secret about this - it is all in published reports to the Mayor," said the spokesman. "Any suggestion we are doing this to make it look like congestion charging is working is not true."
I was thinking about protests the other day and it occurred to me that the most effective thing to do would be the opposite of the obvious. All us London commuters should leave our cars and bikes at home and use public transport. This would completely overload the network and would demonstrate what a farce this whole process is. We'd all need to take the day off work, because very few of us would get there...
'Secret plan' to keep out cars
by David Williams Motoring Editor
Mayor Ken Livingstone is working on "secret" plans to prevent motorists driving into London - by rigging the traffic lights, it is claimed today.
His engineers are modifying them so traffic flow into the city can be dramatically reduced via a central computer and drivers will face a "sea" of red lights that will hamper their progress in outer and inner London.
The proposals include allowing longer right turns that hinder main road traffic, more "green light" periods for side roads and longer intervals for pedestrians.
The measures are considered vital by the Mayor to prevent gridlock in inner London when congestion charging begins in February. Without them, unprecedented levels of traffic could build up around the boundary, as drivers divert to avoid the £5-a-day charge. Only by cutting off the flow at the outskirts, critics claim, can congestion charging be proven to "work".
The first effects could be felt in the autumn when drivers are expected to blame delays on the "back to work" flood after the summer, or on roadworks, council schemes and accidents, it is claimed. In fact, their journeys will have been sacrificed to guarantee the success of the Mayor's scheme.
Motoring organisations reacted furiously today. They claimed London was duped into accepting congestion charging without being warned about wider implications.
Kevin Delaney of the RAC Foundation, said: "We said all along that congestion charging could only work if the Mayor increased the capacity of public transport and of the inner ring road. Now it seems the only thing the Mayor is planning to do is hold up traffic much further out. These are secret plans to move congestion from the centre to the rest of London."
The Corporation of the City of London, Westminster council and Kensington and Chelsea led attacks on the plan.
Joe Weiss, the corporation's strategic transportation director, recommended in an internal report that it "demand no artificial choke points be established outside the zone that deter traffic seeking access to the City" as this would have a " deleterious economic effect".
He told the Standard: "This has not been consulted upon. I have frequently asked [the Mayor's body] Transport for London what are the rules of engagement for controlling traffic - and each time I have been pooh-poohed away."
Daniel Moylan, Kensington and Chelsea's deputy leader, claimed that on routes leading out of London traffic lights will "open up like a tap" to prevent cars from clogging up the inner ring road, with "dire consequences" for traffic on side roads and pedestrians.
Charles Cronin, Westminster council's cabinet member for transport, said: "Public transport can never perform as well as the car so they want to drag everything down to the same level."
Sources claim scores of traffic lights have already been adapted to facilitate the "stranglehold", with new microprocessors costing around £200 each. One said: "This is macro-control of traffic to ensure you have a 'doughnut' of congestion around the outside to stop people reaching the inside. Initially it will be just a few seconds and motorists will scarcely notice. But the full effect will gradually be wound up to hold traffic back so there are fewer vehicles in central London."
Worst-hit will be drivers making local journeys such as school runs in between the inner ring road that marks out the charging zone boundary - and the north and south circulars. Congestion will not be allowed to hinder buses, however. There will be more bus lanes and special junctions allowing buses to circumvent queues. More will have transponders that turn lights green when they approach.
TfL denies that it has "secret plans" to stifle traffic flow to ensure the success of congestion charging. A spokesman insisted that although traffic lights were being linked to a central computer, this was to eradicate congestion.
He denied traffic would be rationed at key entry points and said although some new light phasing would be introduced it would not be as early as the autumn. "There is no secret about this - it is all in published reports to the Mayor," said the spokesman. "Any suggestion we are doing this to make it look like congestion charging is working is not true."
Whilst totally reprehensible, this is sadly only the latest and most blatent attempt to artificially reduce the attractiveness of private car use. Others would include many so-called "traffic calming" schemes which simply cause additional congestion, the spiralling level of tax charged to the motorist and the constraints being placed on the provision of parking spaces at places of work by planning regulations.
The chap quoted above hit it on the head by saying that since public transport is c**p, the idea is to bring car use down to the same level. There's still a long way to go, despite some of the measures already taken.
My journey to work is ~6 miles and takes me between 20 and 30 minutes in my car at a total cost of about £1.50 per day. It's a company car and I pay the same tax if I drive it or leave it to rust. The car goes door to door, exactly when I want it to, and will stop at the shops on the way home (if my wife asks it nicely). I always get a comfortable seat which never has chewing gum on it. The car is cool in the summer and warm in the winter (thanks to efficient climate control). I can listen to the radio or to a selection of CDs from my extensive collection. Even when the trafic is heavy I arrive at work relaxed, comfortable and ready to face the day.
If I go to work by train I have a 5-10 minute walk at either end so I'm limited as to the amount of clobber I can carry and I can get piss wet through. If I'm lucky I may get a filthy seat, covered in chewing gum, discarded burgers and an atractive selection of bodily excretions, otherwise I stand with my head pressed into some sweaty armpit listening to s***e on someone else's personal stereo.
The train goes when it wants to - or it doesn't (thanks Mr Byers). Goes nowhere near the shops, is like a sauna in the summer and smells like a wet sheep in the winter.
And I pay nearly three times as much for all this
The obvious comment is that if as much effort was spent improving public transport as is spent f*****g things up for the motorist we'd all be a lot happier. Everyone would go to work on the train - including me - so I could dump my sensible car, buy a TVR and have some serious fun on the now much quieter roads
The chap quoted above hit it on the head by saying that since public transport is c**p, the idea is to bring car use down to the same level. There's still a long way to go, despite some of the measures already taken.
My journey to work is ~6 miles and takes me between 20 and 30 minutes in my car at a total cost of about £1.50 per day. It's a company car and I pay the same tax if I drive it or leave it to rust. The car goes door to door, exactly when I want it to, and will stop at the shops on the way home (if my wife asks it nicely). I always get a comfortable seat which never has chewing gum on it. The car is cool in the summer and warm in the winter (thanks to efficient climate control). I can listen to the radio or to a selection of CDs from my extensive collection. Even when the trafic is heavy I arrive at work relaxed, comfortable and ready to face the day.
If I go to work by train I have a 5-10 minute walk at either end so I'm limited as to the amount of clobber I can carry and I can get piss wet through. If I'm lucky I may get a filthy seat, covered in chewing gum, discarded burgers and an atractive selection of bodily excretions, otherwise I stand with my head pressed into some sweaty armpit listening to s***e on someone else's personal stereo.
The train goes when it wants to - or it doesn't (thanks Mr Byers). Goes nowhere near the shops, is like a sauna in the summer and smells like a wet sheep in the winter.
And I pay nearly three times as much for all this
The obvious comment is that if as much effort was spent improving public transport as is spent f*****g things up for the motorist we'd all be a lot happier. Everyone would go to work on the train - including me - so I could dump my sensible car, buy a TVR and have some serious fun on the now much quieter roads
In case you hadn't noticed, this is nothing new.
It has for some years been much easier to get out of Central London than to get into it, due to traffic light phasing. This was originally brought in in the mid 80's.
The real agenda to watch are those of the local councils who are doing their damndest to restrict traffic flow through their boroughs and divert it onto someone else's. In my borough, Camden, there are so many no right turns and so much pedestrianisation (not to mention the glorious prospect of five years of road works thanks to the Kings Cross Channel Rail Link) that it's almost impossible to drive through it in less than an hour.
There are only two options. Get a bike. Do track days. That way you get where you're going easily and quickly (and free) and you get to discover what the hell the manufacturers were trying to do when they designed and built your car!
It has for some years been much easier to get out of Central London than to get into it, due to traffic light phasing. This was originally brought in in the mid 80's.
The real agenda to watch are those of the local councils who are doing their damndest to restrict traffic flow through their boroughs and divert it onto someone else's. In my borough, Camden, there are so many no right turns and so much pedestrianisation (not to mention the glorious prospect of five years of road works thanks to the Kings Cross Channel Rail Link) that it's almost impossible to drive through it in less than an hour.
There are only two options. Get a bike. Do track days. That way you get where you're going easily and quickly (and free) and you get to discover what the hell the manufacturers were trying to do when they designed and built your car!
I used to drive into London every day, a few years ago. I could have used the train but I loved my own space, music etc. Although I had to leave at 5.30am to avoid the rush. After some time of this my girlfriend commented how tired and bad tempered I had become after a day at work, all due to the stresses building up each day fighting through traffic. As things got worse I finally decided to try the trains for the commute. I have to say, it was much better. An extra 2.5 hours in bed each morning, a one hour journey in total per day instead of 4, can have more sleep on the train too, feel much happier and less tired.
Now I enjoy my driving at the weekend, around the countryside, not cursing on the motorway or gridlocked in London. I now look upon my car as a real pleasure, not thinking what shite journey lies ahead. Giving your car some stick around the twisties is real driving. Sitting in a que really isn't driving at all, your just kidding yourself and getting stressed. I think if you seperate your commute with your proper driving you will enjoy both more!
Now I enjoy my driving at the weekend, around the countryside, not cursing on the motorway or gridlocked in London. I now look upon my car as a real pleasure, not thinking what shite journey lies ahead. Giving your car some stick around the twisties is real driving. Sitting in a que really isn't driving at all, your just kidding yourself and getting stressed. I think if you seperate your commute with your proper driving you will enjoy both more!
Now its time to buy a horse! Get everyone riding them into central London, c
g on the pavements and filling the drains with p*** and you'd soon see the greenies demanding the return of the car.....!!
But seriously, is it legal for "them" to interfere with traffic patterns in this way? And, seeing as we paid for the roads in the first place, how can it be legel for them to charge us to use them.. Gotta be something we can do to stop this mad, lunatic rush to restric our freedom of movement. Gimme a gun someone and I'll not be responsible for the ws that get shot!! 
g on the pavements and filling the drains with p*** and you'd soon see the greenies demanding the return of the car.....!! But seriously, is it legal for "them" to interfere with traffic patterns in this way? And, seeing as we paid for the roads in the first place, how can it be legel for them to charge us to use them.. Gotta be something we can do to stop this mad, lunatic rush to restric our freedom of movement. Gimme a gun someone and I'll not be responsible for the w
s that get shot!! 
Maybe off topic......but......
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we get a chance in the next month or so (May???) to have our say on whether Ken stays or goes?
Biggest problem is if we get the same/worse turnout as the General Election, then we could be stuck with him.
Who fancies standing as a candidate? Wonder if you'd get in if your only policy was "not to charge to enter central London"?
Maybe I missed something last time (I was in Aus), but I went away 1st week in April 2000, and I knew who the candidates were, but not what their policies were. Hence I did not vote for any London Mayoral candidate.
This time will be different - assuming that the candidates do have policies.
Imagine it.....Mayor PetroTed
Has a nice ring to it ;-)
Paul
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we get a chance in the next month or so (May???) to have our say on whether Ken stays or goes?
Biggest problem is if we get the same/worse turnout as the General Election, then we could be stuck with him.
Who fancies standing as a candidate? Wonder if you'd get in if your only policy was "not to charge to enter central London"?
Maybe I missed something last time (I was in Aus), but I went away 1st week in April 2000, and I knew who the candidates were, but not what their policies were. Hence I did not vote for any London Mayoral candidate.
This time will be different - assuming that the candidates do have policies.
Imagine it.....Mayor PetroTed
Has a nice ring to it ;-)
Paul
Well i have read most of this thread and I have to say I think im luck to live where I am but the money will never be as high as you lot will make but as for the traffic and distance to work, I live over 20 miles from work and it takes me just over 20 minuts to get there with traffic.
But I would not go to work the public way, the services around hear arnt very good but I think we all like the slow pace of life
Down with the tossers in the goverment
But I would not go to work the public way, the services around hear arnt very good but I think we all like the slow pace of life
Down with the tossers in the goverment
quote:
"Congestion will not be allowed to hinder buses, however. There will be more bus lanes and special junctions allowing buses to circumvent queues. More will have transponders that turn lights green when they approach"
I want a transponder! Surely some tech-bod can figure it out and sell them to all ph'ers.... hehehe
No surprise surely. Ken is a bl**dy socialist, and as such will be first against the wall along with the rest of this dreadful government as soon as the 'great' British public wake-up from whatever coma they've been in for 7 years.
Don't forget, a measure of Red Ken's sanity is his attempt to ban pigeons from Trafalgar Square, not only cars from London.
>> Edited by littlemisshavoc on Wednesday 20th March 14:37
Don't forget, a measure of Red Ken's sanity is his attempt to ban pigeons from Trafalgar Square, not only cars from London.
>> Edited by littlemisshavoc on Wednesday 20th March 14:37
Re: transponders.
I would guess the easiest way to do this would be based on mobile phone technology. Since it went digital its virtually uncrackable. Sorry. you could swamp their signal easy enough though, then the buses would get stuck in the same mess as everyone else...
Your best bet is to highjack buses.
I would guess the easiest way to do this would be based on mobile phone technology. Since it went digital its virtually uncrackable. Sorry. you could swamp their signal easy enough though, then the buses would get stuck in the same mess as everyone else...
Your best bet is to highjack buses.
1. No bloody horses in central London piss off back to the fields.
2. No bloody students, lefties, anti capitalist tossers or anyone that wears sandals.
3. All roads in and out up to 3 lanes
4. Anyone with a criminal record (serious speeding exempt), drug habit, dodgy haircut or non english speaking has to live in the tube and never come out.
5. All asylum seekers straight back on the bloody Eurostar, no sod it down the tube with the rest of the low life.
6. Once a month all tube stations to be saturated with sarin gas.
7. All council housing to be levelled if you can't make a living or be bothered to get off you fat tracksuit bottom covered arses its off down the tube.
8. NCP to be nationalised and made FOC
9. Bus lanes to be changed to "very fast" lanes if you stray in to them and get hit it's your fault.
10. All cabbies to have completed at least half a dozen track days, have a minimum 200bhp to get a cab plate and while we're at it wire their bloody jaws up.
11. No cars under 200 bhp within the M25
12. All drivers permitted to enter my kingdom have to work a minimum 6 months as a motorcyle courier just so they know what it's like on the other side of the fence.
13. The poxy "London Eye" to be converted to a life size version of one of those car loop the loop things I had as a kid.
14. The round tower to become a big "wall of death" with lowering floor
15. Buckingham Palace to be the Grandstand for the Monaco style street circuit covering The strand, Trafalger square, Picadilly, and while we're at buckingham palace throw the parasites that live there down the tube as well.
16. Once a month canonball run style races round the M25.
17. Benefit system ?? what bloody benefit system it's make your own way in life or off down the tube you go. Besides the money I'll save will help pay for the big adventure playground.
18. Tarmac bloody Hyde Park what a waste of space that is.
19. No bloody gatso's, lasers, cctv or any other high tech shite just give every copper a WRX and if they can catch me they can nick me.
20. Oh yes and Green Ken's the first against the wall.
Any votes ????
2. No bloody students, lefties, anti capitalist tossers or anyone that wears sandals.
3. All roads in and out up to 3 lanes
4. Anyone with a criminal record (serious speeding exempt), drug habit, dodgy haircut or non english speaking has to live in the tube and never come out.
5. All asylum seekers straight back on the bloody Eurostar, no sod it down the tube with the rest of the low life.
6. Once a month all tube stations to be saturated with sarin gas.
7. All council housing to be levelled if you can't make a living or be bothered to get off you fat tracksuit bottom covered arses its off down the tube.
8. NCP to be nationalised and made FOC
9. Bus lanes to be changed to "very fast" lanes if you stray in to them and get hit it's your fault.
10. All cabbies to have completed at least half a dozen track days, have a minimum 200bhp to get a cab plate and while we're at it wire their bloody jaws up.
11. No cars under 200 bhp within the M25
12. All drivers permitted to enter my kingdom have to work a minimum 6 months as a motorcyle courier just so they know what it's like on the other side of the fence.
13. The poxy "London Eye" to be converted to a life size version of one of those car loop the loop things I had as a kid.
14. The round tower to become a big "wall of death" with lowering floor
15. Buckingham Palace to be the Grandstand for the Monaco style street circuit covering The strand, Trafalger square, Picadilly, and while we're at buckingham palace throw the parasites that live there down the tube as well.
16. Once a month canonball run style races round the M25.
17. Benefit system ?? what bloody benefit system it's make your own way in life or off down the tube you go. Besides the money I'll save will help pay for the big adventure playground.
18. Tarmac bloody Hyde Park what a waste of space that is.
19. No bloody gatso's, lasers, cctv or any other high tech shite just give every copper a WRX and if they can catch me they can nick me.
20. Oh yes and Green Ken's the first against the wall.
Any votes ????
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