Rust Removal - Bilt Hamber or POR15?

[ctid]

I'm going to have a go at sorting the patches of surface rust on my sills and rear arches this weekend. I've been looking at Bilt Hamber stuff and POR15. Is there either of the two that people would recommend over the other?

I was thinking of getting the POR15 starter kit, but am not sure if there would be enough in there.

Bilt Hamber Stuff:

Surfex HD
Deox-Gel

POR15 Stuff:

Marine Clean
Metal Ready
POR15 Rust Preventative Paint (Black)

Have I got the process right too?

Grind down with wire brush drill attachment
Degrease surface
Treat with Bilt Hamber Deox-Gel
Wrap in cling film and leave for 4-6 hours
Brush off the Bilt Hamber Deox-Gel
Fill any pitting
Zinc primer
Paint

POR15:

Grind down with wire brush drill attachment
Degrease surface with Marine Clean
Treat with Metal Ready
Paint on POR15
Zinc Primer
Paint

Thanks

Edited by ctid on Wednesday 28th October 09:09

[jatinder]

I've used the Bit Hambler gel on the mounting brackets for the number plate lights.

I can post up a couple of pictures later, it was fiddly to use but overall I was impressed.

May be worthwhile using the powder which dissolves in water instead. That can be re-used at least.

[ctid]

Thanks, is the powder the Deox-C stuff? I thought that you used that to submerge parts in a bath of it. Can it be mixed up to be brushed on to a panel?

[JohnnyE]

I've used POR15 before. The black finishing paint is by far the best paint I've ever used - but does require careful handling. If you get a drip of it on the lid of the tin, it'll seal it shut and thats the end of it! You need to collect up a few of those Chinese takeaway plastic tubs and carefully spoon some paint into it for use. It blows away Hammerite or the likes but be warned, the black paint is UV sensitive and if its going to see sunlight, they advise you top coat it.

Metal Ready is VERY watery. The parts I did (swinging arms and tie bars) were taken off the car and therefore I could soak them well. One good thing though is that Metal Ready can be re-used.

A assume you've seen Frost's website - http://www.frost.co.uk/

If I can find some pics of the before and after of my parts I'll post them up. It was a serious transformation.

Johnny

Edited by JohnnyE on Wednesday 28th October 09:34

[ctid]

Cheers, I was thinking of topcoating the POR15 with some colour matched paint. I know the finish won't be perfect without using a gun, compressor, and an oven, but it isn't exactly a show car now! If you could find some pictures, it would be really useful.

Some other advice I was given is to grind it all back to clean metal, and fill with P40 and P38 Isopon filler and fibreglass paste. Is this a better option? I've never used filler before, so was hoping to keep it to a minimum.

[JohnnyE]

Here you go. Before, during and after.


Plenty of wire brushing, degreasing then soaking with Metal Ready (sprayed via a hand pump bottle)


3 coats of POR15. You couldnt chisel the stuff off if you tried.

[JohnnyE]

ctid said:

Cheers, I was thinking of topcoating the POR15 with some colour matched paint. I know the finish won't be perfect without using a gun, compressor, and an oven, but it isn't exactly a show car now! If you could find some pictures, it would be really useful.

Some other advice I was given is to grind it all back to clean metal, and fill with P40 and P38 Isopon filler and fibreglass paste. Is this a better option? I've never used filler before, so was hoping to keep it to a minimum.

I recently cleaned up the rear arch lip on my wifes car. Just used a wire brush then some files to bare metal it. Used Kurust (great stuff) to kill off and etch the surface, then 4 coats of POR15 topped off with colour paint. You wouldn't know it had been done. The POR15 dries very smoothly even if brushed on. All depends on where your rust is (is it in plain sight?).

[ctid]

JohnnyE said:

I recently cleaned up the rear arch lip on my wifes car. Just used a wire brush then some files to bare metal it. Used Kurust (great stuff) to kill off and etch the surface, then 4 coats of POR15 topped off with colour paint. You wouldn't know it had been done. The POR15 dries very smoothly even if brushed on. All depends on where your rust is (is it in plain sight?).

Ah, that sounds like a good option. So I'd need some Metal Ready, Kurust, and POR15? Do you need to primer after the POR15, or will colour matched paint go straight on after keying the surface? Have I got this right?

Grind back with wire brush drill attachment
Treat with Kurust
Treat with metal ready
Paint POR15 on it
Paint colour matched topcoat

Yeah, the rust is on the outer part of the sills, and around the lip of the rear arches, but on the outside of the panel. I'm not too fussed about a perfect match, I just want to stop it spreading even further, and make it look a bit more presentable.

[Kentish]

Can you brush on POR15?

Is it also thin enough to spray on with a pressurised container?

I'm going to wire brush the entire underside of my MG oneday and use some rust inhibitor and then POR15 it.

Should I then underseal over the POR15 to seal it?

[Chris71]

Slight thread-hijack, but I've got to do the chassis rails on the Caterham soon. Is POR15 equally suitable for tubing? Any advice?

[ctid]

Yeah, it can be brushed on. Not sure about the other questions. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be along to answer though

[JohnnyE]

Its REALLY good to brush on. Not sticky like Hammerite - more like light syrup.

As for the sequence - Metal ready is a rust killer and etching coat. You can use this OR Kurust. For a small area sucj as a flakey inner arch, I'd use Kurust personally. Bare metal it and then apply as many coats of Kurust as it takes allowing half an hour or so between coats. The POR 15 can go straight on. You recoat POR15 BEFORE it fully dries in - abiyt an hour between recoats. Before top colour coating, you use a bit of wet & dry to allow the top coat to grip.

And yes, you can spray it. I seem to recall though that it needs thinned if youre going to do that.

Final tip (for now!). Before resealing the tin, put some cling wrap over the top. Stops the lid sealing shut. It really is that strong.

[edit] @kentish - you could leave it as it is if its underneath the car or maybe top it off with some Dinitrol 4941 black underseal. I used that on the underside of my chassis (on a TR8) and it was great stuff. Get a cheapie air compressor off Screwfix/B&Q and invest in a Shutz gun.

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8...

Edited by JohnnyE on Wednesday 28th October 09:52

[ctid]

Cheers for the advice. Will one tin of POR15 be enough for 2 sills, and all round 2 rear arches? (1998 VW Polo).

Thanks

[Kentish]

Thanks for that and sorry, one more question!

If you have bad pitting after stripping the rust and curing do you then POR15 over the pitting and use filler on top of the POR15 or do you fill it first and POR on top of the filler?

[JohnnyE]

It will be enough. The coverage is quite a shock. Just remember - DONT brush from the tin. Spoon it carefully out into something else then cling wrap it and shut the tin.

@Kentish: If it is REALLY bad, I'd fill first then POR15 over. But, if we're talking about minor pitting, I'd just POR15 it and sand between coats. The POR15 will fill it and grip like no other.

The official line is: CAN I USE BODY FILLER OR PUTTY WITH POR-15?
Yes. First paint both sides of the rusted area with POR-15; then use
body filler or putty as soon as the POR-15 is dry to the touch. For best
results and adhesion use our StraightLine or RestoGrip body fi llers over
POR-15.

Full info is here: http://www.frost.co.uk/images/datasheets/P230BLACK...

Edited by JohnnyE on Wednesday 28th October 10:03

[raf_gti]

For those of you who have already treated rust would you be able to post some pics up of the finished result?

ta!

[Kentish]

Lovely, thanks johnny

The key thing to remember I think is that you want to protect the metal so you use the POR15 as it has such great adhesion, that will give it the long life and anything you use on top is just cosmetic

[ExPat2B]

I have had great success with Fertan, and it cuts out a couple of steps as you can paint directly onto it. The suspension parts I treated 3 years ago are still ok and the rust was pretty deep and severe.

Wire brush / sand ( rotary type attached to Dremel/drill )

Fertan

Por15

Paint.

[JohnnyE]

Knew I'd seen this somewhere in the past... explains why Hammerite always chips off in flakes eventually.



Shows how POR15 'grips' v's traditional paints:



@raf-gti: My pics are above - but theres thousands of examples here: http://images.google.co.uk/images?gbv=2&hl=en&...

Edited by JohnnyE on Wednesday 28th October 10:33

[Trommel]

Don't get POR15 on your hands!