Recommended Beginners Books?

[bradders]

Hi All,

We are about to purchase some decent camera gear at work, for use by our graphic designer (D700, Nikkor 105mm Micro VR, Nikkor 14-24/f2.8,SB900, Manfroto tripod) and I've decided to take the plunge and get a few extra bits myself and have a go at learning how to take decent photo's.

Discussed the extras with a few people, and the suggested list for me to buy is Nikkor 50mm/f1.4, Sigma 24-70/f2.8 HSM, Nikkor 70-300VR.

So, now I've got a kit list, I need some instruction - hence the title - are there any must read beginners books that I should be looking at? I intend to have a go at quite a few different things in time, but to begin with city shots (I will be going to HK next week) and snowboarding shots (France in January) are the two main ones - along with the usual Xmas parties etc.

I've had a play with a D100 a friend lent me, but only briefly - where do I begin? Do I need other bits of kit?

Cheers Bradders.

[nick_bbb]

Stop buying kit until you understand what it does, then you will know what else you need.

Scott Kelby's books seem to be popular...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=sc...

...as is this...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Exposure-Pho...

[bradders]

Thanks for the book suggestions Nick.

The kit is specified by our graphic designer - not me, so I'm not really buying before knowing. She knows her onions with regards to photography. For me, I know next to zip - but the kit (or most of it) will already be in place, so not to worry there. Obviously, if I get a feel for it, and need different stuff, I will go back into shopping mode at a later date.

Cheers, Bradders.

[Simpo Two]

What is she going to take photographs of? It seems rather overkill if you just want packshots for a website.

[bradders]

We do all our marketing in-house. Monthly printed mailshots (mid quality print), twice yearly catalogues (high quality print), shots for our exhibition stands (two story sided product placements) of which we do several per year, along with web shots, profile shots etc etc etc. Products range in size from 19" TFT Embedded DVR's to 20mm sq board cameras. We will also be doing customer PR shots to supply to industry journals.

Is that overkill? Not quite sure why I feel the need to justify the requirements of our business to a complete stranger.....

Like I said - the designer is very adept at this - I am a beginner hijacking an already spec'd equipment list wanting advice on books to see if I can get the basics and whether I wish to take this further.

[andy-xr]

Sounds like the graphic designer wants a new toy to me.

Get Simpo in, he has good rates I hear and you might have change to pick up a prosumer camera just for you. Then you can justify your business needs to someone providing good service at a good price

Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 27th October 13:20

[ian in lancs]

andy-xr said:

Sounds like the graphic designer wants a new toy to me

yep - giveaway is the single flashgun and no light boxes or modifiers! Not so hot on equipment after all!
I would have expected a D300 and maybe a couple of SB-600's or maybe portable studio lights but that sounds overkill.

[Simpo Two]

andy-xr said:

Sounds like the graphic designer wants a new toy to me.

I'm afraid that's what I thought too, but wasn't going to be the first to say!

andy-xr said:

Get Simpo in, he has good rates I hear and you might have change to pick up a prosumer camera just for you. Then you can justify your business needs to someone providing good service at a good price

A very kind thought Andy, and I'd be happy to do so, but of course I do have to charge something whereas the graphic designer is free.

Bradders, clearly your company uses photography for more than website packshots; I just wanted to make sure you weren't being rooked by your graphic designer's Christmas List


Now if you could just get the Marketing Assistant to do the graphic design and the photography as well...

[bradders]

Not sure why this is, but when someone asks a genuine question, people ignore this and jump to their own conclusions regarding background facts. Maybe it would have been better to leave these out and simply ask about the books - then I guess people would have been asking what I was planning to use. Hmm.

At no stage have I said that we do not have other equipment already. We do - in fact we have a room dedicated to taking product shots, with all sorts of stuff in there, including other flash gear, lamps, lightbox and even a tent. We are replacing the camera gear. Quite why this should cause a problem is beyond me!

Thanks for the book suggestions to help me out though...!

Edited to add - Our msg's crossed Simpo - thanks for posting again. I feel a little more relaxed about this forum now - thought I'd walked into a large clique...! The marketing department is now 3 deep and growing rather than shrinking!

Edited by bradders on Tuesday 27th October 16:43

[andy-xr]

Was just looking out for you Bradders, saves a thread in a couple of months time asking if there's any recommended photographers as you've been had over.

Get yourself to KelbyTraining.com and start a 1 month subscription to see how you get on. I found online tutorials better for me than books, admittedly you dont keep the content but I find I learn quicker watching and listening than reading. If you're the same, great. If not, they've got a book as well.

In the back of your mind though, remember that my plumber cuts hair for half the price of my barber. He's st at it, but he's cheaper.

Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 27th October 16:59

[bradders]

Thanks Andy - now thankfully thinking my first impressions of the forum were not so accurate!!

We've been shooting our own stuff for several years, but never owned our own camera gear - we recently "lost" a member of staff who took his equipment with him. Again, more fill info, that I unfortunately didn't think relevant to begin with (!!)

Will check out KelbyTraining.com - thanks for the heads up. Buggering off to China on Thursday for 18 days, so it may be a while before I get started - but rest assured, if it grabs me, then I will be back here quite a bit over the coming months!

Cheers, Bradders.

[Simpo Two]

bradders said:

Edited to add - Our msg's crossed Simpo - thanks for posting again. I feel a little more relaxed about this forum now - thought I'd walked into a large clique...!

No worries - between us here we've seen most things and if there's a post that doesn't quite add up we try to get to the bottom of it. Partly that was the designer loading up at your expense, but also the 'I've bought loads of kit, now how does it work?' angle. Both could lead to problems further on, but maybe not, we'll see!

I've worked with many companies over 20 years in a marcoms context, and the 'in-house' vs 'contracting out' debate is cyclical. The rise of digital everything means that companies can do much more in-house than before, but whilst that sounds like a great wheeze at the outset, they can later find that there's little creativity or originality, that the quality isn't there, or that their in-house bod has gone home at 4.00pm leaving a vital job half done - while a contractor will work on it all weekend because if he misses a deadline he doesn't get paid. You may feel you have more control in-house, but a good client-supplier relationship can be much more powerful. Of course it may all work perfectly for you, but I just wanted to say that it may not be the panacea you expected. Perhaps the best solution is to keep the 'everyday' work in house, but not be afraid to put the best stuff out if it demands it.

One other thing - there was no software on your list. If I was in your shoes I'd ask your expert what format she plans to shoot in... the correct answer for anything important is RAW.

If you need anything else checked out by the cynical jackals on the Photo forum, just ask

[andy-xr]

Then ask if the D700s rumours are true

[ian in lancs]

Simpo Two said:

... the correct answer for anything important is RAW.

If you need anything else checked out by the cynical jackals on the Photo forum, just ask

I take back my hasty supposition!

[bradders]

OK, time for me to withdraw gracefully from this thread. For the help I've been given, thanks. For the rest of it - you cynical bunch of !

Cheers Bradders.

PS - Andy - video is one thing we still pay for, so any impending "S" is of little interest!

[Major Bloodnok]

If you're still reading this bradders, what I think some of the "cynics" are saying is that a kit list for someone who's experienced is a completely different beast to a kit list for a beginner.

When you're starting out, and assuming you want to take good pictures rather than snaps, you first need to get a good grounding in how to see and visualise the final image. Vast amounts of kit isn't going to get you that.

My suggestion would be to go for something like a D200 body (a belting camera - more than adequate - and you should still be able to get one cheap - try eBay) and a 50mm lens - the f1.8 is a cheap, very good buy. Alternatively, a 35mm is more "standard" on an APS-C sized sensor, although pricier. Then, get yourself down to a library (or fire up Google Image Search) and find some books of photographs, not "how to" books. Look at the work of people like Diane Arbus, Jaques-Henri Lartigue, Irving Penn, Edward Weston, Helmut Newton, Anton Corbijn, Phillip-Lorca diSouza, Martin Parr, and on and on. Look at their images and try to work out what you like or dislike about them. Photography is about the image, not the kit. If you can't drive, buying a Ferrari isn't going to help.

Then go out and take photographs. Lots of them. Pick a style and see if you can emulate it. Sticking to a fixed-length lens will force you to look around, move around, think, compose. Be prepared for lots of failures initially, but look critically at what you've done, compare it with similar images that you admire and try to pick out the differences.

[bradders]

Hi MB, yes I'm still checking back. Was not going to post again, but thanks for the suggestions, which I do take seriously.

As previously said, the kit (some of which has already arrived today) is not being bought for my use - I will be "borrowing" it at weekends, evenings etc.

I do understand the "cynics" stance to some degree, but this was a genuine "here is some kit I can borrow, but where do I start" rather than "I've just blown a stack of money and have no idea" or "my employee is trying to give herself an early Christmas" as suggested previously.

OK, another question to the "cynics" (not sure that's a fair description anymore given the nature of help subsequently offered) - given that I can borrow all of this kit at not a lot of cost to me (aside from adding a 50mm lens - I have taken your advice on this, and will not rush to buy the other stuff myself until I am happy), would you still advise that I get a lower spec body to practice with, even though the cost to me will rise?

[cirks]

bradders said:

OK, another question to the "cynics" .......... given that I can borrow all of this kit at not a lot of cost to me

I assume "not a lot of cost" would be the tax you'll pay as a benefit-in-kind for having the use of Company owned equipment for non-Company related work There, you said you were asking the cynics

Seriously though, if you can borrow the kit, I don't see the issue with practicing on a more advanced body. Just make sure you take it gradually, learn the basics on it (even the most advanced kit has 'basic settings') and then widen your knowledge. If you don't mind spending a bit and picking up a cheaper camera to actually own, use when and how you want, then that's probably the best bet though.

[andy-xr]

Best get another D700 so you can mix n match FX glass really

[Simpo Two]

Perhaps realist is a better description than cynic

bradders said:

OK, another question to the "cynics" (not sure that's a fair description anymore given the nature of help subsequently offered) - given that I can borrow all of this kit at not a lot of cost to me (aside from adding a 50mm lens - I have taken your advice on this, and will not rush to buy the other stuff myself until I am happy), would you still advise that I get a lower spec body to practice with, even though the cost to me will rise?

You can certainly start on a D700 (which is almost the best DSLR Nikon make) BUT it will be more punishing on user error. To use the car analogy, you'll be learning to drive in a mid-field F1 car, not a Nissan Micra. However, as it will be there anyway, it would be silly not to try it and see how you get on. For myself, I trialled a D700 for a couple of months but reverted to a brace of D200s for various reasons. Photographic kit is a personal thing, like clothes. The 50mm lens is a fine lens but you're getting one because somebody told you you needed it, not because you'd discovered any personal requirement for it. I have a 50mm f1.4 but in reality rarely use it - my main weapon of choice is the 17-55mm f2.8 (which will only give a 5Mp crop on a D700 so not a sensible option for you). That's why just buying a list of stuff on somebody else's recommendation is not always the best way forward. Conversely, I agree that if you don't know what you want, where do you start? (chicken and egg). In your position I'd try the D700 body and for starters, the Sigma 24-70 f2.8. Then bone up on the basics: shutter speed, aperture, depth of field, ISO and how they work together. (The instruction manual won't tell you any of this, but try to read it when you feel up to it - it is important). Shoot JPG for starters because you'll have plenty to keep you busy without adding RAW processing to the list. As for kit, leave the rest until you find out what you need.

Hope this is helpful; it is certainly intended to be.

Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 28th October 12:00