Sourcing A V8 Engine

[OnlyMX5ives]

Hi guys, I'm looking for a Rover V8 to stuff in my MX5 (not as daft as it sounds, there are quite a few around)

I've managed to find a TVR T5 box relatively easily but am struggling to find a sensibly priced engine.

I've spoken to a couple of TVR breakers but they seem to want a lot for unproven engines.

Are there any good forums / breakers or does anyone have anything ?

Engine budget is £1500 really so anything new / recon is pretty much out and seeing that some Chims are down to £4k, £1500 for the engine seems more than reasonable.

Cheers

[Boosted LS1]

And you expect some sort of warranty for that money?

[OnlyMX5ives]

No but I want to hear it run and see some history.

I can buy a Rover V8 3.9 for £250 or a 4.0 for £500 so for 3x that I want something reasonable.

Rather than an oily mess sitting on the floor with TVR on the covers and a £3k price tag that may or may not have ever been in a TVR.

[Boosted LS1]

OnlyMX5ives said:

No but I want to hear it run and see some history.

I can buy a Rover V8 3.9 for £250 or a 4.0 for £500

For that money you're taking a very big punt into the unknown.

Are you after a rover engine or a TVR engine? There's a big difference between the two. The latter with good bits will cost a lot more.

As for history and hearing it run, that's going to be difficult unless you can find a freshly written off car.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 23 October 00:41

[heightswitch]

OnlyMX5ives said:

Hi guys, I'm looking for a Rover V8 to stuff in my MX5 (not as daft as it sounds, there are quite a few around)

I've managed to find a TVR T5 box relatively easily but am struggling to find a sensibly priced engine.

I've spoken to a couple of TVR breakers but they seem to want a lot for unproven engines.

Are there any good forums / breakers or does anyone have anything ?

Engine budget is £1500 really so anything new / recon is pretty much out and seeing that some Chims are down to £4k, £1500 for the engine seems more than reasonable.

Cheers

Any second hand engine is a gamble. The TVR badge on a second hand Rover lump does start to get silly but why do you want to spoil a nice little MX5?

I would have thought that something Like an S14 Turbo'd nissan unit would be a lot simpler to install and give all the right BHP Numbers?

Its a nice old lump the rover but you shouldn't forget the words "old" and "lump" .

It sounds like an expensive way to get 300hp into an MX5, admittedly it will sound nice but if performance, handling and reliabilty are your goals then there are a lot better engines to use?

N.

N

[OnlyMX5ives]

Yes the cheap options would be R Rover units and would want a rebuild really.

I'm not expecting a 300bhp engine but I've seen a few guys upgrading 4.0 / 4.3 and PX'ing their old engine and being offered buttons by the dealers.

I've had 250bhp turbos and currently run 220bhp SC MX5 but I want the noise and instant power of a V8 (I used to have a Griff 500).

Most older V8's are too heavy and modern ones are too wide, the other option is a Lexus 4.0 but it never came with a manual and if anything goes wrong the parts are expensive.

[300bhp/ton]

OnlyMX5ives said:

No but I want to hear it run and see some history.

I can buy a Rover V8 3.9 for £250 or a 4.0 for £500 so for 3x that I want something reasonable.

Rather than an oily mess sitting on the floor with TVR on the covers and a £3k price tag that may or may not have ever been in a TVR.

Not being negative but I think a Rover V8 engine is he wrong choice. While they can be a cheap way to 200hp they get pricey to get much more and you don't seem to want to be spending enough to see more. But with turbos and such even a 1.6 can make good power these days and still weigh less. So that only leaves the noise, which if I'm honest is great. But seems aot of effort and money only for noise.

If starting from scratch I think you would be much better off looking at other powerplants. Don't get me wrong I love the Rover V8 and have one. But it's old, no smaller than many other engines and while often thought of as light weight they aren't really compared to many other engines.

Even if you were lucky enough to get hold of a descent 4.6 from a Range Rover it's still only 225hp at best. Some fancy heads, a wild cam and bolt on mods might net you 280-300hp. But even doing it on a budget you could easily drop £3.5-4k to achieve this. I sort of know this as I've been looking into this very thing to replace my 220hp 3.5 Rover V8.

So far I've come up with what I see as 3 options for me:

1. Stock 3.9 off Ebay or similar. Probably buy an entire Disco as you see it running.
Refresh it with a new cam/followers. Do nothing else to it and add a twin or single turbo to it and run it on 99 RON. Should make more power than a 4.6 for less money.

2. Chevy ls1 v8. Don't know how easy or cheap they are to get in UK but I'm sure they are about. They already make 320-350hp in stock trim, remove emissions stuff and a few bolt ons (exhaust/induction) and you should be near 400hp. They are compact and weigh pretty much the same as a late cross bolt Rover V8 they also leave loads of scope for more power later on. To top it all they are more fuel efficient too.

3. A Lexus V8. Have to say this is appealing to me and something I think I'm going to pursue. LS400
s are equipped with a very nice 4.0 all alloy DOHC V8 making a claimed 250-275hp. More than pretty any stock Rover V8. You can pick these up for next to nothing, either as an entire car or just an engine. I'm told removing the emissions stuff will see the best part of 300hp and they will happily run turbos to over 400hp on stock internals and fuel
system. They will mate to a Supra 6 speed manual gearbox among others. When you compare a Rover V8 to these I personally feel the Rover seems antique, outdated and massively overpriced.


BMW V8's might also be worth a look.

[Boosted LS1]

^ The budget is £1500 or thereabouts so that rules out the chevy completely.

[OnlyMX5ives]

Agreed if I were looking for 300bhp I'd go for an LS1 but they are hard to get over here at sensible prices, in fact the cheapest way is to import them from the USA, used with a manual box for around £4-5k

But 220 - 240bhp will do me. Whilst I have that now I only have around 170lbft so and extra 50 or so should be felt !

[300bhp/ton]

OnlyMX5ives said:

Agreed if I were looking for 300bhp I'd go for an LS1 but they are hard to get over here at sensible prices, in fact the cheapest way is to import them from the USA, used with a manual box for around £4-5k

But 220 - 240bhp will do me. Whilst I have that now I only have around 170lbft so and extra 50 or so should be felt !

Don't get me wrong but I think you might be disappointed and possibly boxing yourself into a corner to upgrade further without silly cost.

I love the way my TR7 goes and it'll just about out run an RX8 but it won't keep up with a DC5 ITR in a straight line although it's not a huge difference. Also I went on a dyno day last year there was a
lovely yellow Cobra kit car running what I believe was a lightly breathed on 4.0 litre RV8. Basic bolt ons at the very last. Sounded fab and iirc was making 180hp flywheel!!!!

Still think the Lexus sounds a good idea tbh for the money. 300hp for £500 or under.

[OnlyMX5ives]

300bhp/ton said:

OnlyMX5ives said:

Agreed if I were looking for 300bhp I'd go for an LS1 but they are hard to get over here at sensible prices, in fact the cheapest way is to import them from the USA, used with a manual box for around £4-5k

But 220 - 240bhp will do me. Whilst I have that now I only have around 170lbft so and extra 50 or so should be felt !

Don't get me wrong but I think you might be disappointed and possibly boxing yourself into a corner to upgrade further without silly cost.

Still think the Lexus sounds a good idea tbh for the money. 300hp for £500 or under.

It does BUT it costs more to get a suitable manual box, adaptor, flywheel etc.

Also means you have to sort out the Lexus wiring / ecu (not easy) or fit a Squirt (£500) plus tuning / wideband (£250+)

But what worries me most is that most LS400's will have been tootled about never hitting 5000rpm. When I start thrashing it, if something lets go, the parts are expensive or you stick another £500 engine in and hope for the best.

[300bhp/ton]

Maybe, althoug I'm led to beleive the wiring is fairly easy on the Lexus. There's a chap on the cobraclub forums running one. And I agree the gearbox will cost more but overall costs are still likely to be cheaper or no more pricey IMO as the engines are just so much cheaper.

As for reliability, well it's a Toyota. It's far less likely to have issues than a 1950's Rover lump IMO espcially for the price range you are looking at. Also Rover enigne parts are pricey too, although I freely admit I don't know the price difference in parts for the two engines.

And despite being a luxury car I personally feel plenty of them will have been reved to the red line or similar.

[300bhp/ton]

Just remembered. While I was looking on eBay I remember seeing new Ford Mustnanv engines. Think they are crate ones and with a gearbox for either £2.5 or £3k all in. I know these are a bit big and heavy but the final car would still be small and lightweight. These make 260hp SAE net. Remove the emissions stuff and they'll be better. They are good
for about 300-330hp n/a without silly cost and will run around 480hp with boost. Not a bad way to get a new V8 engine IMO.

[JoePublic]

Out of interest... why? If you're accepting the complexity and cost of eight big cylinders from a low volume manufacturer (ignoring the Rover origins...) over four small ones from a huge mass producer, then why not just get the rest of the car too?

It's obviously a personal take on it, but I used to have an MX5 and, personally, I'd rather have a TVR with bits of mass produced Mazda quality control under the bonnet than a mass produced Mazda with bits of TVR quality control under the bonnet!

That and the wealth of forced induction available for the '5...

[Quentin1]

That might be, what Sir is looking for:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-ERR5012STRG-SU...


Regards,
Björn.

Edit: Interchanged link, since you would need a crank sensor for timing...

Edited by Quentin1 on Friday 23 October 14:22

[300bhp/ton]

Isn't that Rimmer Bro block nearly double the price the OP requested?? Not to mention despite being a long block it still needs potentialy several hundred quid more spending on it to get it running. Not so bad if you already have a vehicle running a V8 but a lot missing if it's for a conversion. And all that for for only around 180-185hp

[OnlyMX5ives]

JoePublic said:

Out of interest... why? If you're accepting the complexity and cost of eight big cylinders from a low volume manufacturer (ignoring the Rover origins...) over four small ones from a huge mass producer, then why not just get the rest of the car too?

The Rover V8 isn't complex.

I used to have a Griff - it broke down every month.

Griff has looks to die for, not so keen on the Chimp.

If 4.3 Griff's were £5k then I still might have one, but they aren't and I don't really like Chimps.

You can't see out the back with the hood up nor down (of either) I have a glass screen in my 5.

It took ages to get the hood in the boot of the Griff (Admitedly Chimp is easy).

The seats are rubbish, they tend to leak, things tend to fall off...

I like modifying cars and having something different - not much to do on a TVR really.

I'll happliy admit the 'feel good factor' of a TVR is WAY more than a 5 but other than that I'd rather have the 5, its much smaller to throw around too.

Disappearing from the lights in a TVR is expected but leaving them in an MX5 is so much more fun, as it unexpected.



Not TVR bashing, I love them but for everyday use I'll take a modified 5.

[Barkychoc]

Some Lexus V8 info, you may have found these already I guess

http://v-eight.com
http://lextreme.com

[OnlyMX5ives]

Thanks I hadn't seen the first one.

Why is it all the guys on a TVR forum trying to convince me to fit a non TVR engine ?

MX5 not a good enough home for one ?

Edited by OnlyMX5ives on Friday 23 October 23:13

[grahamw48]

I'm not.

Do what YOU want to do.

There are Wedge 350s around for a couple of grand or less, possibly with perfectly serviceable motors.

Will your rear end cope ?