Excuses for NIPs
Discussion
About 15 years ago my brother (4 at the time) fell out of a bedroom window onto concrete from about 12 feet. My mum (who's a nurse) made the decision not to wait for the ambulance and got my uncle to drive her, my dad, and my brother to the hospital straight away.
Apparently on the ride to the hospital, my uncle sped and ran at least 3 read lights (this was in Harlow)
My brother was in genuine need, with a fractured skull and bleeding from the ears. He was immediately treated and sent on to a head trauma hospital (can't remember where) in an ambulance that (obviously) broke the speed limits with the sirens going. My uncle followed the ambulance with my dad in the car. At the time there was a serious question about whether my brother was going to make it or not. For completeness he did survive with almost no lasting effects from the incident.
My point/question is if this happened today, and my uncle did the same, its conceivable that he would get 12 points on one day from red light cameras and speeding cameras. Would there be anything he could do when the NIPs start landing on his doormat?
Apparently on the ride to the hospital, my uncle sped and ran at least 3 read lights (this was in Harlow)
My brother was in genuine need, with a fractured skull and bleeding from the ears. He was immediately treated and sent on to a head trauma hospital (can't remember where) in an ambulance that (obviously) broke the speed limits with the sirens going. My uncle followed the ambulance with my dad in the car. At the time there was a serious question about whether my brother was going to make it or not. For completeness he did survive with almost no lasting effects from the incident.
My point/question is if this happened today, and my uncle did the same, its conceivable that he would get 12 points on one day from red light cameras and speeding cameras. Would there be anything he could do when the NIPs start landing on his doormat?
I'd say that if the same events happened today and someone chased an ambulance through 2/3/4/ speed cameras, then surely you could get some form of incident number from the hospital to confirm the severity of the condition of the victim etc, which would (I would hope) wave the speeding?
I have heard a simular thing with drink driving. Not that I'd condone it, but just say a group of people were staying at a cottage/house in the middle of nowhere, no hospital nearby etc. all the group were drinking and just say one fell badley ill and needed hospital treatment (life or death). If the least drunk drove the casulty to hospital they would most likely be let off.
May be different cases, but I'm sure you see my point.
Cheers,
Dave.
I have heard a simular thing with drink driving. Not that I'd condone it, but just say a group of people were staying at a cottage/house in the middle of nowhere, no hospital nearby etc. all the group were drinking and just say one fell badley ill and needed hospital treatment (life or death). If the least drunk drove the casulty to hospital they would most likely be let off.
May be different cases, but I'm sure you see my point.
Cheers,
Dave.
quote:
About 15 years ago my brother (4 at the time) fell out of a bedroom window onto concrete from about 12 feet. My mum (who's a nurse) made the decision not to wait for the ambulance and got my uncle to drive her, my dad, and my brother to the hospital straight away.
Apparently on the ride to the hospital, my uncle sped and ran at least 3 read lights (this was in Harlow)
My brother was in genuine need, with a fractured skull and bleeding from the ears. He was immediately treated and sent on to a head trauma hospital (can't remember where) in an ambulance that (obviously) broke the speed limits with the sirens going. My uncle followed the ambulance with my dad in the car. At the time there was a serious question about whether my brother was going to make it or not. For completeness he did survive with almost no lasting effects from the incident.
My point/question is if this happened today, and my uncle did the same, its conceivable that he would get 12 points on one day from red light cameras and speeding cameras. Would there be anything he could do when the NIPs start landing on his doormat?
I've been told that in principle you can break any law without penalty if you can demonstrate reasonable cause, for example breaking the speed limit to save a life. Any lawyers here able to confirm/deny this?
The point was more along the lines of how do you get them to buy mitigation given that the only record against you is a picture?
If you get a incident number from the hospital (given that you've got the presence of mind to do so in an emergency) how do you fill out the NIP and attach the incident number in a believable way?
And if you can do it whats to stop you calling up the hospital and getting an incident number "you know, my friend that I brought in on friday night"?
Given the indescriminate prosecuting that appears to go on at the moment it seems likely that any mitigation, genuine or not, will not be accepted by the computer data entry people who receive the filled out NIPs.
If you get a incident number from the hospital (given that you've got the presence of mind to do so in an emergency) how do you fill out the NIP and attach the incident number in a believable way?
And if you can do it whats to stop you calling up the hospital and getting an incident number "you know, my friend that I brought in on friday night"?
Given the indescriminate prosecuting that appears to go on at the moment it seems likely that any mitigation, genuine or not, will not be accepted by the computer data entry people who receive the filled out NIPs.
Well... If you were say chasing an abulance - then the ambulance should feature somewhere in the picture, or in the pics before - after all it must have set the camera off before?
I got my NIP last November (bar stewards) but I'm sure there was a "not guilty" part of ther form that would start the ball rolling, if that were the case.
I'm sure that if it were a genuine hospital dash, and you did know the name of the freind/reletive etc, then the hospital must be able to provide some form of evidence that the evet actually happened?
I got my NIP last November (bar stewards) but I'm sure there was a "not guilty" part of ther form that would start the ball rolling, if that were the case.
I'm sure that if it were a genuine hospital dash, and you did know the name of the freind/reletive etc, then the hospital must be able to provide some form of evidence that the evet actually happened?
A defence against breaking the speed limit is as quoted above. I.e rushing a sick child to hospitol. You just have to demonstrate that this was the case.
A simple letter from the admission nurse or doctor stating rough time of arrival and injuries would be sufficent.
>> Edited by relaxitscool on Thursday 14th March 09:20
A simple letter from the admission nurse or doctor stating rough time of arrival and injuries would be sufficent.
>> Edited by relaxitscool on Thursday 14th March 09:20
quote:
Would this not be in breach of Access to Medical Records Act ?
Not if you have the permission / written consent of the patient or legal guardian. Medical statements are available. Yes, they can take a while to arrive and may cost a bit a couple of pounds but they are available.
quote:
I have heard a simular thing with drink driving. Not that I'd condone it, but just say a group of people were staying at a cottage/house in the middle of nowhere, no hospital nearby etc. all the group were drinking and just say one fell badley ill and needed hospital treatment (life or death). If the least drunk drove the casulty to hospital they would most likely be let off.
I know of someone who was stopped on his way to hospital whilst transporting an injured friend. The police then escorted the to the hospital where they promptly breathalysed the driver and he's now being done for drink driving.
quote:
Ted - As much a this might seem unreasonable to us, as I understand it, it's not legally unreasonable - mitigation is to be considered by the courts, not the police, so he could still get off in court on the basis of said mitigation.
That is a fair point, but how much time (Police, CPS) and money can be saved by Plod using a bit of common at the scene.....
Relax - If I had a serious condition I would not want All and Sundry at local plod shop to know about it. So would just a letter stating General Terms as I stated i.e. Serious Injury occurred be acceptable
quote:The more the policy of the police force is dominated by statistics, targets and central control (not to mention the dangers from a litigious public and a venomous press), the less empowered the individual PC is to make such a judgement call...
That is a fair point, but how much time (Police, CPS) and money can be saved by Plod using a bit of common at the scene.....
quote:
Relax - If I had a serious condition I would not want All and Sundry at local plod shop to know about it. So would just a letter stating General Terms as I stated i.e. Serious Injury occurred be acceptable
To be honest I'm not sure. This is straight out of a book and relates to emergency driving and mitigation when certain traffic regulations and broken "As with members of the emergency services, all the circumstances of the case must be weighed, particularly the nature of the emergency known to, and perceived by, the driver and the nature of the driving." - I'm guessing but I would say a statement outlining that the nature of the injury required immediate attention, and if such attention wasn't given the consequences could result in a serious or life threatening condition would suffice. That would be enough for me, but I can't answer for a court.
The only time I'd put up and accept the points and fine is if I got that vacuum thing stuck again on the old whatdoyoucallit
Rob
>> Edited by relaxitscool on Thursday 14th March 13:50
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