RE: Sagaris 'Challenge' Car
Thursday 8th January 2004
Sagaris 'Challenge' Car
Supercharger for race car
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On the Dunlop stand at today's Autosport Show, TVR are showing their Sagaris demo car. It was hoped that the first racing version of the model would grace the stand but that's still undergoing development in Blackpool.
The race car will make its first outing in this year's Tuscan (or 'TVR') Challenge. Blackpool will use the series to develop the car before any are entered into the GT series.
The Tuscan/TVR Challenge version will use a supercharged version of TVR's straight six, with TVR claiming 480-500bhp and 430 lb-ft of torque. The engine will be coupled to TVR's new sequential gearbox. A race version will also be made available to other racers, although with engines being leased from TVR it's expected that they will be available at considerably less than the £50K price tag for the road going versions.
Peter Wheeler will drive the first race car although it's too early to say whether it will make it out for the first race of the season.
22 drivers have registered for the series this year, so grids of 18 cars or so are hoped for - about the same as last 2003 which proved to be one of the most exciting years to date.
Discussion
Great news.
They are going to test the sp6 (and supercharged version) by racing it!!!
This is what they should have done 3 years ago and then maybe they'd have found out all the sp6 problems before the customers did. It's an approach that seemed to work well with the AJP8.
Things are looking up (especially for the sp6).
They are going to test the sp6 (and supercharged version) by racing it!!!
This is what they should have done 3 years ago and then maybe they'd have found out all the sp6 problems before the customers did. It's an approach that seemed to work well with the AJP8.
Things are looking up (especially for the sp6).
ro_butler said:Errr... they did!
They are going to test the sp6 (and supercharged version) by racing it!!!
This is what they should have done 3 years ago and then maybe they'd have found out all the sp6 problems before the customers did. It's an approach that seemed to work well with the AJP8.
Martin Short's British GT Cerbera is/was a SP6 car, and the TuscanR/T400/T440 cars that have been running in British GT and Le Mans are all SP6.
So, SP6 were used in competition 3 years ago.
i think butler's point is that the engine wasn't race tested before going into 'mass-market' production (as mass as TVR ever are!)
the speed 6 engine may have been raced, but was also selling on road cars at the same time.
Can't wait to see this Sagaris on track though - I hope its as outrageously noisy as the original Rover V8 tuscans!
the speed 6 engine may have been raced, but was also selling on road cars at the same time.
Can't wait to see this Sagaris on track though - I hope its as outrageously noisy as the original Rover V8 tuscans!
Excellent news. Good to hear that the numbers of cars on the grid is likely to go up as well.zebedee said:The same is true of the AJP8 engine: I believe that the Tuscan Challenge cars changed over for the '95 (or '96) season, just as the first Cerberas were produced. Not many SP6 cars shipped in 2000!
i think butler's point is that the engine wasn't race tested before going into 'mass-market' production (as mass as TVR ever are!)
the speed 6 engine may have been raced, but was also selling on road cars at the same time.
Anyway, none of this of course detracts from the universal truth that you shouldn't buy a TVR with a new engine type until its been shipping in customer cars for at least 3 years.
I'm interested in the '22 drivers have registered for the series for 2004' comment.
The number of interested drivers with cars available may be about right, I don't know - but if there was a registration process it has happened without my knowledge!!
I suspect that the published comment is a more formal way of saying 'Reidy reckons there are about 22 drivers/cars out there that might make it out on track'
The number of interested drivers with cars available may be about right, I don't know - but if there was a registration process it has happened without my knowledge!!
I suspect that the published comment is a more formal way of saying 'Reidy reckons there are about 22 drivers/cars out there that might make it out on track'
Andy, what is the driver's view on this Supercharged Sagaris racing with your open topped Tuscans? Will it have much straight line speed advantage? Mind you I guess the fact that PW is driving it will balance that out Mind you if Ben gets into one then it could be a different story? Rich...
Mind you if Ben gets into one then it could be a different story? Rich... RichB said:
Andy, what is the driver's view on this Supercharged Sagaris racing with your open topped Tuscans? Will it have much straight line speed advantage? Mind you I guess the fact that PW is driving it will balance that out
I doubt it will make much difference in 2004 to be honest. The factory had a T350 race car in build for most of last season, but it seems to be a little way off yet. As it says in the article, it is not certain (read 'unlikely') it will be ready for the start of the season.
So although the factory are taking orders for the race car - no-one knows when they will be ready, what they look like or how competitive they will be.
The series regulations if they remain the same mean that championship points are awarded regardless of class (Tuscans = class A, T350/Sagaris = class B) - so if you are a top driver (with plenty of funding), I suspect you may be reluctant to order one this year. The exception may be if you are a team looking to run one in the GTs, and you may want to get the car sorted in the TVR Challenge.
This year if there are grids of say 18 cars with 2 or 3 Sagari (is that the plural?), which either p1ss off into the distance or trail round the back, it will destroy the essence of the series.
Overall, I suppose TVR need to update the series at some stage - though in my view the Tuscans remain a fantastic spectacle and do not look dated. However I can see why TVR want to link the racing more with the road cars.
They have a difficult job now - the season is not far off and the car is not fully developed. Its not an ideal platform to market a new race car (nor is the economic environment in motor racing too clever).
So to finally answer the question - if it is supercharged and has more power than the Tuscan then this and the better aerodynamics should overcome the extra weight and overall I would expect it to have the edge over the Tuscans. Especially if it has 'Wheeler' spec tyres
:ramble mode off: >> Edited by griff2be on Thursday 8th January 18:56
jeremyc said:
They are going to test the sp6 (and supercharged version) by racing it!!!
This is what they should have done 3 years ago and then maybe they'd have found out all the sp6 problems before the customers did. It's an approach that seemed to work well with the AJP8.
Errr... they did!
Martin Short's British GT Cerbera is/was a SP6 car, and the TuscanR/T400/T440 cars that have been running in British GT and Le Mans are all SP6.
So, SP6 were used in competition 3 years ago.
Not trying to upset anybody, I thought the sp6 wasn't raced much before being released thats all. A couple of entries in GT is not as good a testing ground as 20 of them in a series all to themselves (or however many were used).
I was just trying to make the point that it will help iron out the problems with the supercharged sp6 before too many people get to buy them.
ro_butler said:
ro_butler said:
They are going to test the sp6 (and supercharged version) by racing it!!!
This is what they should have done 3 years ago and then maybe they'd have found out all the sp6 problems before the customers did. It's an approach that seemed to work well with the AJP8.
Errr... they did!
Martin Short's British GT Cerbera is/was a SP6 car, and the TuscanR/T400/T440 cars that have been running in British GT and Le Mans are all SP6.
So, SP6 were used in competition 3 years ago.
Not trying to upset anybody, I thought the sp6 wasn't raced much before being released thats all. A couple of entries in GT is not as good a testing ground as 20 of them in a series all to themselves (or however many were used).
I was just trying to make the point that it will help iron out the problems with the supercharged sp6 before too many people get to buy them.
TVR will not be able to build 20 race cars that quickly, even if there were 20 teams/drivers waiting with pockets of cash to snap them up. I would expect a slow transfer to the Sagaris - unless TVR propose a revolutionary way of buying them. I'll eat my hat if there are 20 race cars before 2005 at the very earliest. (not my crash helmet, obviously. I need that, the way I drive
)
V8 Archie said:
overall I wouldn expect it to have the edge over the Tuscans
Is that half-way between would and wouldn't
One of the other drivers has clearly driven into the back of my post and left a random 'n' in it. Also the keyboard spring settings were incorrect for the type of post and the coffee started to go off during the last part of the post. Frankly I had to pull out all the stops to finish it at all.
Racing driver speak for "I made a balls up but will blame everyone but me" (I picked up a few tips from Uncle Rodney
29 last year
)griff2be said:
Racing driver speak for "I made a balls up but will blame everyone but me" (I picked up a few tips from Uncle Rodney
220/29 Ah, you learnt a few things then, good boy
22 cars on the grid for 2004.......umm, OK.. lets say 20 for the moment, ( I think 12 would be nearer the mark as of today, with maybe 4 more by the begining of the season) anyway, If TVR are being asked to "underwrite" the £10/11K race fees PER ROUND for the 8 rounds that they are supposed to be doing with GT/F3, drivers fees will go up to £500, (last season £360) and if only say 15 pitched up, the cost would be £666.
I'm not saying that this would happen, but It does give an indication of the problem TVR face at present with the payment changes they have been asked to support, for if they agree to "pay" £10K per round, and keep the race fees at the same level as last season, they need grids of 28 min just to cover the outlay.
This problem is the reason behind the delay in TVR confirming 100% that Tuscans are running with GT/F3.
Lets hope they can do a deal that allows them the flexability to maintain race fees at 2003 levels,and that doesn't cost them or the competitors big bucks if only 15/16 cars are on the grid, GT/F3 would be much the poorer if Tuscans ran elsewhere, and even if only this number of cars made the grid, it will be better then watching a full grid of anything else
>> Edited by smokin220 on Thursday 8th January 21:18
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