Discussion
4 months?! Then I suppose you have been one of the first person to have the latest version...
I don't know how it's like in the UK with Porsches but down here I haven't seen yet the latest 3.4 litre on the road, only the "old" 3.2...
McNab, when did you order your car? When you did it, were you aware that the 3.4 version was on its way, or was it just a coicidence that you got one?
What I'd like to know is to wether customers who have ordered a 996 before the launch of the 3.4 knew they would get this model...
If so your ranking on Porsche's list of customers (2 years) might mean you will get the "new" version of the 996 turbo (you know, the one which doesn't exist yet
)
I don't know how it's like in the UK with Porsches but down here I haven't seen yet the latest 3.4 litre on the road, only the "old" 3.2...
McNab, when did you order your car? When you did it, were you aware that the 3.4 version was on its way, or was it just a coicidence that you got one?
What I'd like to know is to wether customers who have ordered a 996 before the launch of the 3.4 knew they would get this model...
If so your ranking on Porsche's list of customers (2 years) might mean you will get the "new" version of the 996 turbo (you know, the one which doesn't exist yet
)Luck really. I ordered the car from the Aberdeen dealer in August (paid the provisional deposit), and by then I knew the 2002 model existed. Funnily enough I didn't like the look of the new nose treatment, and asked AFN what they thought of it. I bought my first 356A from them in 1956, and trusted their judgement. They hadn't seen the new model, so they couldn't tell me much.
By early September the dealers had received their demonstration cars, so I shot off to Aberdeen to have a look, and immediately realised that the new model was a great improvement on its predecessor in every respect.
I didn't ask for a test drive because I had already made up my mind, and all that had to be done was figure out the exact specification I wanted. I took the list of options home and e-mailed the dealer next day with the final spec.
Delighted to find that lots of extras on the previous model were now free of charge, so I sent the full and final deposit, and sat back ready for the long wait until January.
Why January? I had asked for a special colour - midnight blue metallic - and was told that this would cause a delay of about six weeks. Never mind; well worth the wait!
Imagine my surprise when I got an e-mail from the dealer on 9th October to say that my car had arrived, and would be delivered on 12th October. Miracle? What seems to have happened is that the factory paintshop had done a couple of midnight blue cars and had enough paint left over to do mine, before completing the rest of that particular UK batch.
When I visited the dealer in September I noticed three 996 coupes ready for delivery. They were 2000 spec cars, and their new owners must have been somewhat upset to say the least, knowing that if they'd waited a month they could have had the new model.
There isn't a huge difference on paper, but the extra power is very noticeable, and there are lots of other minor improvements. You only have to read the Road Tests for confirmation of all this.
So yes, I was very lucky indeed, and I would recommend the 2002 model to any prospective purchaser without hesitation.
By early September the dealers had received their demonstration cars, so I shot off to Aberdeen to have a look, and immediately realised that the new model was a great improvement on its predecessor in every respect.
I didn't ask for a test drive because I had already made up my mind, and all that had to be done was figure out the exact specification I wanted. I took the list of options home and e-mailed the dealer next day with the final spec.
Delighted to find that lots of extras on the previous model were now free of charge, so I sent the full and final deposit, and sat back ready for the long wait until January.
Why January? I had asked for a special colour - midnight blue metallic - and was told that this would cause a delay of about six weeks. Never mind; well worth the wait!
Imagine my surprise when I got an e-mail from the dealer on 9th October to say that my car had arrived, and would be delivered on 12th October. Miracle? What seems to have happened is that the factory paintshop had done a couple of midnight blue cars and had enough paint left over to do mine, before completing the rest of that particular UK batch.
When I visited the dealer in September I noticed three 996 coupes ready for delivery. They were 2000 spec cars, and their new owners must have been somewhat upset to say the least, knowing that if they'd waited a month they could have had the new model.
There isn't a huge difference on paper, but the extra power is very noticeable, and there are lots of other minor improvements. You only have to read the Road Tests for confirmation of all this.
So yes, I was very lucky indeed, and I would recommend the 2002 model to any prospective purchaser without hesitation.
Lee, no, I have not driven the older model, but I have discussed the difference with people I believe to be reliable and knowledgable.
As I have explained, I was lucky to order my 996 at exactly the right time. Even so, new models will soon appear, and they will be better than mine. There's no point in worrying about that sort of thing - all it brings is perpetual dissatisfaction.
I apologise if this guess is wide of the mark, but I think you are asking yourself whether you should change now, or wait. I wouldn't wait, but that's an entirely personal attitude, and we're all different!
The 2002 model range improvements are small but significant, and I understand that the torque characteristics are noticeably better. A test drive would surely answer any misgivings you might have?
I do know of one person who posts regularly on these pages who has very recent experience of both models, and if you like I will ask him to contact you.
If you do decide to upgrade I would avoid the Carrera 4S - it looks like a Turbo, but it isn't. Max speed is 4 mph down on the standard Carrera, and there seems to be little to recommend it other than the pose factor.
Finally, read this for specifics: www.autoweek.com/porsche/home.mv
Scroll down the page to '2002 Porsche Moving Target' and click on 'Full Story'.
As I have explained, I was lucky to order my 996 at exactly the right time. Even so, new models will soon appear, and they will be better than mine. There's no point in worrying about that sort of thing - all it brings is perpetual dissatisfaction.
I apologise if this guess is wide of the mark, but I think you are asking yourself whether you should change now, or wait. I wouldn't wait, but that's an entirely personal attitude, and we're all different!
The 2002 model range improvements are small but significant, and I understand that the torque characteristics are noticeably better. A test drive would surely answer any misgivings you might have?
I do know of one person who posts regularly on these pages who has very recent experience of both models, and if you like I will ask him to contact you.
If you do decide to upgrade I would avoid the Carrera 4S - it looks like a Turbo, but it isn't. Max speed is 4 mph down on the standard Carrera, and there seems to be little to recommend it other than the pose factor.
Finally, read this for specifics: www.autoweek.com/porsche/home.mv
Scroll down the page to '2002 Porsche Moving Target' and click on 'Full Story'.
Thom,
I noticed that too, with some amusement. Autocar were over the moon with the Carrera 2, but Evo were just a tiny bit cool. Sure enough, a little later Autocar gave the BMW 5 Series victory over the Jag S-Type R, and then Evo came out with entirely the opposite result!!
The gentlemen of the press (no offence to Mr. Farago) were regarded with utter hilarity by Maranello Concessionaires when I was selling Ferraris. If they brought a car back in one piece (!) you could guarantee their report would miss all the good points, and then praise all the bad points...
Never, ever, believe what you read!
Particularly from me?
I noticed that too, with some amusement. Autocar were over the moon with the Carrera 2, but Evo were just a tiny bit cool. Sure enough, a little later Autocar gave the BMW 5 Series victory over the Jag S-Type R, and then Evo came out with entirely the opposite result!!
The gentlemen of the press (no offence to Mr. Farago) were regarded with utter hilarity by Maranello Concessionaires when I was selling Ferraris. If they brought a car back in one piece (!) you could guarantee their report would miss all the good points, and then praise all the bad points...
Never, ever, believe what you read!
Particularly from me?
I think a lot of what you read boils down to the ego of the person who is testing the car. I gave up buying Autocar for this very reason - I got utterly fed up of reading what effectively was one-upmanship, and brown nosing. If that means that I am denied my weekly motoring news, then perhaps PH has fitted the bill. Perhaps that's why I enjoy it here so much.
At least you get thoughts from people who drive the damn cars every day, like McNab, Anjum et al, rather than the usual "I caned the ass of it, I'll never be able to afford it on my meagre hack's wage but it doesn't stop me hating it with a passion..." nonsense that has plagued mags such as Auotcar lately in my opinion.
Why, I couldn't even name a driver on Auto Express (which is still a little bit too home mechanic for my liking - and the Editor only replied to one of my e mails, miserable sod - that was my subscription going elsewhere). At least here, you ask and more often than not, you get.
Evo is a good mag. The journalism is really quite good, and at least you get the impression that the hacks are actually enjoying what they do, as opposed to Top Gear, which has slowly disappeared into it's own folklore. How the hell could they think so much of certain cars ? The Fiat Multipla ? Please ? Reality check ?
The programme may have been shot humanely, but the magazine still lingers on like some bad smell. The format has been jazzed up, but it's more over made-up aged club singer than Britney Spears.
Apologies for the somewhat Whisky fuelled rant - its been a long day. A very long day. I'll be posting tomorrow until lunchtime.
Need that holiday !
>> Edited by GregE240 on Thursday 14th March 22:20
At least you get thoughts from people who drive the damn cars every day, like McNab, Anjum et al, rather than the usual "I caned the ass of it, I'll never be able to afford it on my meagre hack's wage but it doesn't stop me hating it with a passion..." nonsense that has plagued mags such as Auotcar lately in my opinion.
Why, I couldn't even name a driver on Auto Express (which is still a little bit too home mechanic for my liking - and the Editor only replied to one of my e mails, miserable sod - that was my subscription going elsewhere). At least here, you ask and more often than not, you get.
Evo is a good mag. The journalism is really quite good, and at least you get the impression that the hacks are actually enjoying what they do, as opposed to Top Gear, which has slowly disappeared into it's own folklore. How the hell could they think so much of certain cars ? The Fiat Multipla ? Please ? Reality check ?
The programme may have been shot humanely, but the magazine still lingers on like some bad smell. The format has been jazzed up, but it's more over made-up aged club singer than Britney Spears.
Apologies for the somewhat Whisky fuelled rant - its been a long day. A very long day. I'll be posting tomorrow until lunchtime.
Need that holiday !
>> Edited by GregE240 on Thursday 14th March 22:20
quote:
If you do decide to upgrade I would avoid the Carrera 4S - it looks like a Turbo, but it isn't. Max speed is 4 mph down on the standard Carrera, and there seems to be little to recommend it other than the pose factor.
not 100% sure i agree, as it is only a couple of grand more than a C4 yet it comes with a host of extras, including sports suspension (£1,000) option and a gorgeous set of 18" Turbo wheels which would be £1800ish for starters! THAT IS NOT TO MENTION THE TURBO BRAKES (Cost £3K upgrade if available???)
In the flesh it does look v nice and Autocar said it had even more grip and poise than the standard car.
Just one thing to correct from another post below the new 996 is 3.6L the superceeded one 3.4L !!
Me, I am wanting to wait for a 2S which i am told is out shortly or perhaps wait a couple of years and have the next generation 911!!!
Bennno
I agree with Bennno, when I was deciding on whether to get a F355 or a 996 C4S, I did a bit of homework and realised that the C4S is better value than the 996 C4. It comes with sound package, c4s door entry guards, turbo brakes (red calipers), electric drivers seat, 18" Turbo alloys, and a few others. I decided not to get the 996 but if I had I would have got the C4S. I prefer the way it looks, the spec is better and yes it is something like 3 or 4 mph slower top end and 0.1 seconds slower to 60 mph but it has a lower ride height, has stiffer suspension and (apparently) handles better. It is more distinguished than all the other 996 coupes as it has a nicer rear end. Sorry to all other 996 owners but the standard cars look a little boring(?!!). But I agree with McNab that the 996 2002 version is much better. The only thing they still haven't improved is the interior, still more or less exactly like the Boxster.
If you want to buy new, you can save something like 6 or 7 grand by buying in Europe. I know one dealer in Belgium which agreed to also give a 3% discount (UK dealers give nothing!!). According to Porsche dealers they do not discriminate against C16 cars, wherever they are purchased. As long as registered in the UK when new, cars are described as "New when First registered". The company are very professional, official Porsche dealers and you get exactly the same car except for road side assistance, you still get the 2 years Porsche warranty. If you want the web address let me know and I will find it and post it.
Regards
If you want to buy new, you can save something like 6 or 7 grand by buying in Europe. I know one dealer in Belgium which agreed to also give a 3% discount (UK dealers give nothing!!). According to Porsche dealers they do not discriminate against C16 cars, wherever they are purchased. As long as registered in the UK when new, cars are described as "New when First registered". The company are very professional, official Porsche dealers and you get exactly the same car except for road side assistance, you still get the 2 years Porsche warranty. If you want the web address let me know and I will find it and post it.
Regards
Eli and Benno, you are both absolutely right (of course ) but it all depends on what you want. I think my world is very different from yours in many ways, and my choice reflects that.
I can drive away from my house and never see a suburb or a town or a city for miles and miles, and only see an occasional car or lorry. I can reach the nearest motorway, or drive flat out northwards or southwards, for half-an-hour, without passing through a single 30 or 40 mph limit. Brilliant!
But there is a price to pay. The roads are fairly narrow, and badly surfaced. If you ever do a track day on a roughish upsy downsy circuit (like the old Nurburgring) and drive really hard, you will know how badly you can torture a car on roads like this.
For that reason I would never contemplate sports suspension. Nor would I thank you for a wider body - there may not be much in it, but compared to 928s and Daytonas and things the plain slender Porsche is a better tool for me, particularly when I meet a tractor or the occasional HGV, or when overtaking.
Looks? Not important up here. The plainer the better amongst my parsimonious neighbours! Unlike you, I prefer the shape of the standard Carrera, but that's only a personal thing.
I have a lot of the extras you mention, and will look up the cost tomorrow, so that I can harp on with my case for the non-turbo look. Brakes, by the way, are superb - I don't think you would need the Turbo ones unless you're a serious track man.
) but it all depends on what you want. I think my world is very different from yours in many ways, and my choice reflects that. I can drive away from my house and never see a suburb or a town or a city for miles and miles, and only see an occasional car or lorry. I can reach the nearest motorway, or drive flat out northwards or southwards, for half-an-hour, without passing through a single 30 or 40 mph limit. Brilliant!
But there is a price to pay. The roads are fairly narrow, and badly surfaced. If you ever do a track day on a roughish upsy downsy circuit (like the old Nurburgring) and drive really hard, you will know how badly you can torture a car on roads like this.
For that reason I would never contemplate sports suspension. Nor would I thank you for a wider body - there may not be much in it, but compared to 928s and Daytonas and things the plain slender Porsche is a better tool for me, particularly when I meet a tractor or the occasional HGV, or when overtaking.
Looks? Not important up here. The plainer the better amongst my parsimonious neighbours! Unlike you, I prefer the shape of the standard Carrera, but that's only a personal thing.
I have a lot of the extras you mention, and will look up the cost tomorrow, so that I can harp on with my case for the non-turbo look. Brakes, by the way, are superb - I don't think you would need the Turbo ones unless you're a serious track man.
Hi McNab,
Its good to see someone else is still up at this time on the internet!!!
I am looking at some properties on the net and had Pistonheads in the background.
As you say things are very different depending on where you look at them from!! The map is not the territory. I agree you would never need them but I think they look a lot cooler in red calipers, I would prefer a F355 with red calipers but the car would look to much like my company logo (yellow and red!!!) so I guess I would have the eternal piss taken out of me until one or the other was changed. By the way still waiting for the right car!
In London we see so many Porsches, one with a Turbo body without Turbo price and insurance seems a nice compromise for one who wanted something different.
By the way, would you agree with me that the older 911 (993s) are better built than the newer ones? The 996 seems similar in build to my Supra (or am I just mad???), the older one had lovely heavy doors and the paintwork seems to age better than the newer ones.
Regards
PS I am tired!!
Its good to see someone else is still up at this time on the internet!!!
I am looking at some properties on the net and had Pistonheads in the background.
As you say things are very different depending on where you look at them from!! The map is not the territory. I agree you would never need them but I think they look a lot cooler in red calipers, I would prefer a F355 with red calipers but the car would look to much like my company logo (yellow and red!!!) so I guess I would have the eternal piss taken out of me until one or the other was changed. By the way still waiting for the right car!
In London we see so many Porsches, one with a Turbo body without Turbo price and insurance seems a nice compromise for one who wanted something different.
By the way, would you agree with me that the older 911 (993s) are better built than the newer ones? The 996 seems similar in build to my Supra (or am I just mad???), the older one had lovely heavy doors and the paintwork seems to age better than the newer ones.
Regards
PS I am tired!!
Eli,
I was foolish enough to stay awake so that I could watch the first practice at Sepang...and then fell asleep in my chair! Luckily I taped it too.
If I lived south of the M62 I would give distinctive looks a much higher priority, so I think we agree on the general principle. In fact, I would probably buy a Ferrari (shhhh!).
Benno's point about the cost of extras is fair enough at today's prices, although my Turbo wheels cost £737 (these are not the polished Turbo-look wheels which were much cheaper). I paid £999 for the electric seats, and have various other extras which are more expensive now than when I bought my 996.
I would be a bit put off with a car which looked like a Turbo but wasn't. Just think - people would come and say "nice Turbo", and the reply would have to be "Err...no, it's a plain Carrera". Embarrassing!!
Obviously if I had been able to buy a Turbo the bits I don't like would have been instantly forgotten, because the performance is so fantastic.
There's honesty for you.
P.S. I don't have the experience to comment on the quality of the 993 - all I can say is that there was very little difference between my three 928s, my Supra, and the 996. All excellent in my opinion.
>> Edited by McNab on Friday 15th March 13:11
I was foolish enough to stay awake so that I could watch the first practice at Sepang...and then fell asleep in my chair! Luckily I taped it too.
If I lived south of the M62 I would give distinctive looks a much higher priority, so I think we agree on the general principle. In fact, I would probably buy a Ferrari (shhhh!).
Benno's point about the cost of extras is fair enough at today's prices, although my Turbo wheels cost £737 (these are not the polished Turbo-look wheels which were much cheaper). I paid £999 for the electric seats, and have various other extras which are more expensive now than when I bought my 996.
I would be a bit put off with a car which looked like a Turbo but wasn't. Just think - people would come and say "nice Turbo", and the reply would have to be "Err...no, it's a plain Carrera". Embarrassing!!
Obviously if I had been able to buy a Turbo the bits I don't like would have been instantly forgotten, because the performance is so fantastic.
There's honesty for you.
P.S. I don't have the experience to comment on the quality of the 993 - all I can say is that there was very little difference between my three 928s, my Supra, and the 996. All excellent in my opinion.
>> Edited by McNab on Friday 15th March 13:11
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