What does the Corvette have to do in Europe?

[ZR1991]

Moved from the "Motoring News" forum...........

I am interested in how the Corvette is perceived in Europe, and what Chevy would need to do to make the car a serious competitor for sales in Europe.


For example, from another thread:
I have a question. Does being a LHD car affect the car's legal status with regards to it's being offered in Europe? For example, can it be sold only in limited numbers, or in certain circumstances? I know in Australia, the car cannot even be registered or driven until it is converted to RHD, and that has started an whole industry of companies that do that service. I realize you can drive the car there (Europe?), but is there anything special about its status, any limitations?


But in a larger sense,

I have heard the Europe is a major consideration in the Corvette's design, and that they want badly to be more accepted "over there". A good thing, I'd say. So if LHD is a big problem, then I believe it will be addressed, at least at some point.

What else do they have to work on?

Regards, Art in Baton Rouge, LA, USA

PS.. This is an interesting item, think I'll move it to a new thread "What does Corvette have to do in the European Market?"


>>> Edited by ZR1991 on Saturday 3rd January 18:04

[ZR1991]

Followup:
I have moved this from another thread I had started.

I would appreciate it if you would add your thoughts to the discussion, this is always a hot topic around here (USA), where a lot of "old" Corvette fans think the car should be made "just for them". My opinion is the Corvette is good enough to compete anywhere, and changes made to make it more successful in the rest of the world untimately make it better for the USA as well.

Regards.

[Gixer]

People in Europe drive LHD on the RH side of the road just as they do in the US. Us IN THE UK drive on the left and that is ok and no we don't have to have the cars made RHD like they do in Australia. Many are out off by LHD and so resale value can be less for an identical LHD model when compared to the RHD version

[c4koh]

Art,

To add to Brett's (Gixer) comments, only the UK and Ireland out of all of Europe drives on the left.

I did hear that they are planning to move to the right in Ireland, however: a trial period of 6 months for buses and trucks, and if that works out, the cars will follow

So, no, the LHD is not an issue for Europe.

For the UK, we need to have a rear, red fog light with an illuminated switch inside the car; we also have to have amber (orange) indicators (turnlights), so the double-red turns on the regular 'vette aren't really allowed over in the UK.

We're also not allowed amber running-lights - they need to be white, but we're talking a minor technicality here.

Now, for your American buddies who believe the 'vette should just be for them, just remind them where the engine in your ZR1 was designed

What else: American cars are generally poorly perceived in the UK, the LHD of them being an easy target, but on top of that fuel economy [nobody knows that a Ferrari turns 12mpg, a Porsche 16mpg and a Corvette 23mpg on equivalent cycles]

In addition, there is the perception principally that American cars (in this sense, the "sports" varieties - i.e. 'stangs, 'vettes, vipers etc.) are good in a straight line, but poor in handling...

Nothing else to add!

[Gixer]

c4koh said:

Art, I did hear that they are planning to move to the right in Ireland, however: a trial period of 6 months for buses and trucks, and if that works out, the cars will follow

If there are any cars left in one bit by then

[z064life]

WHAT DOES THE CORVETTE HAVE TO DO IN EUROPE? - embarass a lot of other cars, or at least come close, in the same class in all areas - of which cost more (couldn't resist). This will give it credibility - most people are learning that American cars, and the Vette, aren't just for straight line racing, while some are living in a close minded world.

Perceptions of Corvette (and any US sports car, really):
-Can't handle or corner.
-Only for straight line use.
-Poor interior.
-Poor reliability.

The facts (opposite of perception - I'm only commenting on the C5 Z06 and the C6 Z06 - although there is not really any official stats on the C6 Z06, the following is obvious for the car, as some areas have been criticised and DH and the Vette team has realised that the following areas need improvements, and has said so (photos do some justification)):

-Can handle - C5 Z06 has done well on the Nurburgring, where the equivalent 911 dominates - and 911s are designed for that track, a Vette is designed for that track (testing influencing design decisions), but also for other disciplines, and a Vette does very well for its price and the compromises that have to be made.

-Can also be used as a 1/4 mile machine (does this, and handle, to a very good compromise).

-Great tuning potential - you can make a Vette a circuit car or a 1/4 mile machine.

-Nice interior.

-Nice, sports car like, looks.

-Awesome sound.

-Good reliability.

The opposite of the perceptions - but then the perceptions are based on stereotypes, which aren't based on facts. All of these points (good reliability, good handling) has been proven.

>> Edited by z064life on Saturday 3rd January 23:10

>> Edited by z064life on Sunday 4th January 14:00

[Nuro]

I like it in any form, but if I think of the times, here in France, when I've driven with a friend or family member that has no knowledge of Corvettes, I find myself having to explain away the interior design faults and lack of finesse. In Euroland we don't need "Fisher Price" buttons everywhere and are used to a much better design and build quality.

[z064life]

If Chevrolet are planning on bringing the Z06 (we want a Z06 as well as base C6) to RHD markets (namely the UK), then it makes logical sense for demand to be studied before making the car designed with RHD in mind, or the UK market (as RHD isn't the only law for a car to be legal here). It wouldn't be a smart move if GM made the car capable of being sold in the UK, but then there was no demand (but there is demand, but in the case that there wasn't) - it would mean that GM have lost money.

And if there was ever a law that RHD was a requirement in the UK, and GM didn't bother about the UK for the Vette (so they didn't make an RHD version, didn't send it over here), but there were companies doing conversions (kinda like what Motorex in the USA does with the Skyline GT-R), then I wouldn't consider a Vette when I'm older, which would be a shame as the car is good, because these conversions cost 30KGBP+ (in Australia, to convert a Viper to their spec costs more than that, and in USA, converting a GT-R to their spec also costs a lot, with steering conversions being the most complex and costing the most). I wouldn't spend that much extra (on top of car price) to get the car legal in the UK, when that much money can be spent on a lot of modifications.

[c4koh]

z064life

At the moment, it is quite legal to drive a LHD vehicle in the UK: in fact, you may remember 2 or 3 years ago, GM were selling the corvette through their dealership network (Vauxhall), and selling the 'vette as LHD.

As I noted on another forum, left-hand drive really doesn't make much difference in a fast car, and in some cases (lane changes) it's easier on our left-hand roads than a right-hand drive car.

As I also noted, the only perceived problem with a left-hand drive car on our roads is overtaking. Sure, a RHD gives us more visibility, but LHD can give more visibility to the left of cars - and this can be useful!

Furthermore, if, prior to your overtake manoevre, you "float" - that is, drift out, have a look, there really is no disadvantage in a LHD...

On many, many occasions, me - in my "can't overtake as he's in a LHD" - have overtaken 5 or 6 cars in a go - and often, to my surprise, some of those cars have the power to have overtaken as well but decided against it!

In my opinion, LHD should not be regarded in any way as a hindrance: look at the positives, drive to its advantages, and you'll surprise everybody on the road.

And for me GOOD if GM don't do a RHD Corvette: keeps 'em more exlusive over in the UK!!

[900T-R]

As to the original question - people might be warming up to the fact that 'Vettes are pretty balanced overall packages these days - no doubt helped by the motoring press (at least over here in The Netherlands0 and stellar performances at Le Mans until Prodrive decided to take up the challenge - but the bigger problem the brash image of American sports cars ('posers and pimps') that still lingers in the back of people's minds. People will raise an eyelid or two when you arrive at clients' with a Porker, but a Vette (especially a yellow or red one) would make you persona non grata instantly in some quarters.

There's not much GM can do to instantly change that, I fear - but as the product itself goes I agree the interior has to move on significantly from it's current low-rent plastic black naffness to something more in line with the 21st century and the car's price tag (especially after shipping it over the big pond and adding UK/Euro taxes).

[z064life]

c4koh,

I'm aware that the Vette was sold here in LHD, through Vauxhall dealers. I still remember the adverts in magazines - 0-60MPH in 5.7 seconds (base Vette), HUD, etc...

I know it is legal to drive an LHD care in the UK (well in England).

My first paragraph was just to say that it would be logical if GM studied the demand for RHD markets and then made the car RHD compatible, or studied the demand for markets where there are different car laws (like UK), and then engineered the car for those markets with those laws. It's better than to make the car compatible for other markets with other laws, only to find out that there is no demand there.

My second paragraph was IF there was an RHD law (which there isn't as there are LHD cars on the roads today). Because IF there was/is, and we had to pay another company (as done with the Viper in Aus) 30KGBP then I wouldn't consider a Vette (or Viper) because 30KGBP is a lot of money, which I could spend on a lot of modifications. But fortunately, that isn't an issue here.

[te51cle]

I think its mainly an image thing that would have to be overcome. That will take time, patience and investment in marketing. The massive cynical predjudices to overcome are:

- Excessive fuel consumption

- Large physical size

- Excessive weight

- Can't handle (separate issue from can't grip but Joe Public isn't smart enough to know the difference)

- Lousy brakes

- Poor build quality

- Brash styling

The truth over the last 30 years is that European cars have been getting bigger, heavier and better made, while American ones have been getting smaller, lighter and better made. The public perception of all American cars is still stuck in the 1950s. Correct marketing of the Corvette would be a good way of changing these old entrenched beliefs.

Making factory RHD versions would open up the markets not just in the UK and Ireland, but also Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and many other Commonwealth countries which have potential customers.

[z064life]

900T-R said:

As to the original question - people might be warming up to the fact that 'Vettes are pretty balanced overall packages these days - no doubt helped by the motoring press (at least over here in The Netherlands0 and stellar performances at Le Mans until Prodrive decided to take up the challenge - but the bigger problem the brash image of American sports cars ('posers and pimps') that still lingers in the back of people's minds. People will raise an eyelid or two when you arrive at clients' with a Porker, but a Vette (especially a yellow or red one) would make you persona non grata instantly in some quarters. There's not much GM can do to instantly change that, I fear - but as the product itself goes I agree the interior has to move on significantly from it's current low-rent plastic black naffness to something more in line with the 21st century and the car's price tag (especially after shipping it over the big pond and adding UK/Euro taxes).

The C6 has a nice interior (interior issues have been addressed), and the best bit is that there has been very little weight increase due to this, and any weight increase effect (of which is expected) has been mitigated.

Even if the car comes to the UK, there may be extra costs, meaning higher prices for the consumer, but the car will still be a bargain (which is what the Vette is so well known for in the USA? World-class performance at a very fair price, and a balance between an affordable price and between the amount, of which there is less, compromise to the car). At the moment, the car is a lot cheaper than its European competitors and can still be very competitive on the track with those cars (getting just as impressive times given equal factors).

As Bob Lutz recently said, there is going to be no reason to hate the C6. And I'm with him on that statement.

If you notice, the C6 has certain aspects which make it friendly in the UK. Smaller width for our smaller roads, rear fog lights, and some required changes are not there, but if the vette comes to UK, they will be made. However, the Vette could be as good as a Mclaren F1, but for the same price, but the sceptics need to learn to respect the car and approach it objectively without the old stereotypes (from the 1950s as said, and now rendered useless), and then make an honest review. The car can be perfect, but the sceptics who are stuck in the 1950s have to change as well - it's not just the car which has to change.

O/T: I can't imagine a Vette in India. Having been to India myself, a new'ish Ford Escort looks like seeing a brand new Ferrari Enzo in the UK. And the standard of driving over there is ridiculous. Very few drivers know any drivecraft - it's like all the drivers over there are part of the Max Power brigade/joyrider gangs as they run red lights, speed, swerve in between traffic, etc. Here, we get quite a few bad drivers, but over there... And there are 3 lanes on main roads in India, but drivers manage to form 5 lanes on a road designed to hold a capacity of 3 lanes. Nobody would drive a Vette on such roads unless it is really late when it is not busy.

>> Edited by z064life on Sunday 4th January 13:54

>> Edited by z064life on Sunday 4th January 13:58

[anonymous-user]

Had my C5 nearly five years now. It's my first US car in this country and stands up pretty well. Used to drive out and out sports cars but the traffic congestion in UK combined with tight speed enforcement means they don't make much sense these days - always tugging your sleeve and begging to go faster! The Vette provides an unusual sleek body style, staggering performance and the ability to enjoy driving slowly as well as fast. Mine's an auto coupe. I know the stick-shifts are quicker but whichever one you drive the 4wd turbo saloon cars are going to be quicker off the lights in any event I suspect. Mid-range and upper-range acceleration is of course explosive. Other brief comments:

Performance - beyond question. Traction control not too aggressive and if anything needs a "wet road" setting too.
Brakes - OK for road use.
Grip - very good.
Handling - good on smooth surfaces although a mid-bend bump can cause heart in the mouth moments which, not being a member of the Ernhardt family, I find to be below par.
Transmission - the auto is fine for most purposes although a 5th speed would be welcome for the high speed cruising that this car can so easily achieve. One issue I have with the tranny is that there is no lateral acceleration sensor to pevent it shifting mid bend. ie as you accelerate out of a corner the box can go for a lower gear and unstick the back end. It sounds as though this has been addressed for the C6.
Interior - quality is much higher than most US cars that I have experienced. Those who like to have lots of shiny toys might find it a bit plain.
Left Hand Drive - can be a pain although it's rarely a major problem with this much power! Would a RHD version sell like hot cakes? I don't think so. The car is simply bigger than most people would choose for a sports car. This sector of the UK market is essentially dominated by TVR who have a different slant on the subject. Although the C6 is said to be few inches shorter and narrower at the back these are insignificant changes in the real world.
Dealer support - Having failed to sell many US cars in UK (Chevy or Caddy) GM is simply turning its back on UK owners. It's fortunate the cars are essentially reliable because there ain't no way of fixing them without a heap of electronic diagnostics and access to a supply of parts. I'm willing to bet it's much easier to get Ferrari support, probably leaving a Vette owner in a similar position to a Lambo owner. Bit different from USA!

Vette is, in my opinion, destined to remain very much a specialist niche in UK. It will be interesting to see how the C6 sells on the Continent. Much better chance over there.

[z064life]

What I don't understand is that doesn't GM want Chevrolet and Cadillac, their luxury brand, to be taken seriously in the UK? They aren't going the right way about it, and if there is no demand,then demand can be created by having competitive and good products. Sending just a base C5 and a C5 Commerative Edition with the LS1, whilst USA had the LS6, isn't the way to go to be taken seriously in the UK. GM have created something good with the Vette - great performance for a great price, that leaves potentially good sales anywhere on the basis that people want a bargain product (which is reliable, and Vettes are).

[LuS1fer]

The stupid thing is that conquest sales are where it's at. I know lots of people who never once considered a Yank and went out and bought a Corvette/Camaro/trans Am with hearts in their mouth and yet these people would now never even consider something else.

I was the same. I was into hot hatches reading car mags from cover to cover to find out which car took a tenth off last week's best performer. Ten years ago, i bought a Corvette and wham, everything else in that price range seemed as dull as dish water. Now I drive a 1998 Camaro Z28 because I need 4 seats but this car does everything you can possibly ask of it, total, total reliability, shattering performance and even modified, it still costs much less than a Golf GTi. Add cheap insurance and parts and you'd have to be mad to pay the running and depreciation costs on any other car.

I believe it's all about character and with a V8 under the bonnet, American cars have it in spades. Sure, they have their limitations but who needs a car where the limits are significantly above your driving skills. What fun is that?

[vetteheadracer]

I know the C6 Z06 will be sold in Europe along with the Coupe and Convertible and obviously this is just LHD / Kilometre Europe i.e. not the UK.

Whether GM will bother with the UK at all, or whether they will sell the LHD version is open to debate.

My feeling is they won't bother or they will sell thru a few franchises like Bauer Millett.

GM should sell the Corvette thru certain Vauxhall dealers as they do with the VX220.

[LuS1fer]

Well if they're selling an LS1 engined Monaro anyway, for which Vauxhall dealers will have to stump up the cash for the diagnostics (or use their existing stuff from when they used to be Chevy dealers - LOL), they might as well sell the Corvette although the LS2 will probably require fresh software.

They'll also need a manual about telling their *ss from their elbow.

[ZR1427]

Art, for the vette to be a serious competitor on this side of the pond they would have to spend a small fortune on marketing perhaps racing to show the british public what it can do and retool for RHD.

The former 2 would probably pay off as they cover the whole of Europe but as for the RHD for the few countries involved maybe thats asking too much.

The vette like other American sports cars survives on its 'WOW' factor thru being driven around by the enthusiasts like of this forum, the hardest thing to break down is the nieve cynical views that a lot of british public hold such as 'Handling' , 'Gas guzzlers',and comparing them with the budget car they hired when they visited the States ,i find that the funniest,,and of course there are worries like back-up and spare parts.

There is quite a large following in Europe when you consider that we are mainly made up of enthusiasts,but until GM ,FoMoCo,Chrysler etc spend some $$$ on marketing First it would be difficult to sell to your everyday driver.

[vetteheadracer]

Regarding Cliffy's comment about racing. Two back to back Le Mans class wins was never marketed in the UK. The words, "Opportunity", "Golden", "Missed" all spring to mind.......

Perhaps it should be marketed as the Vauxhall Corvette?

If they can take the Holden Monaro and rebadge this as a Vauxhall, why not do the same with the Corvette.

I agree with Mr Testicle, most UK car buyers would never buy a Chevy Corvette as it is perceived as "American", if they sold it thru Vauxhall with full warranty etc I think they would sell a lot more.

For GM this would make a lot of sense at the moment given the state of the US Dollar against the £.



>> Edited by vetteheadracer on Monday 5th January 13:15