Is this normal, Wedding photographer question ...
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I'm off to a wedding in a bit, and have been asked to do a few "unofficial" pics.
However, I have now heard that the official photographer has said he doesn't want anyone taking photographs.
Now, I can understand this from an "offical photos" point of view, "the family shots etc " - he sets the pic up, so why should others benefit (I persaonally think it's 'petty', but, I can see his point). However, my understanding is he doesn't want anyone else with a camera there. However, as far as the "candids" go, I'm strggling to see why it's a problem. He can only be in one place at once, I shall be in another.
Martin
I'm off to a wedding in a bit, and have been asked to do a few "unofficial" pics.
However, I have now heard that the official photographer has said he doesn't want anyone taking photographs.
Now, I can understand this from an "offical photos" point of view, "the family shots etc " - he sets the pic up, so why should others benefit (I persaonally think it's 'petty', but, I can see his point). However, my understanding is he doesn't want anyone else with a camera there. However, as far as the "candids" go, I'm strggling to see why it's a problem. He can only be in one place at once, I shall be in another.
Martin
Not normal... compromise is that when he's doing the formal shots the main photographer should get to direct the setup and be given some space by other photographers - or even a bit of help.
Never heard of solo rights at a regular wedding. He must have had some bad experiences... Probably solvable over a chat and recognition that you won't get in his way and you have different photo briefs...
Never heard of solo rights at a regular wedding. He must have had some bad experiences... Probably solvable over a chat and recognition that you won't get in his way and you have different photo briefs...
Edited by plg101 on Friday 21st August 20:09
'Anyone taking photographs'?
Since virtually every wedding guest is armed with at least a compact, I don't see how it's enforceable outside Nazi Germany. I'd suggest the couple have a look at any small print they signed and see what it says.
There is some logic in 'traditional' photographers not wishing DSLR-types to copy his/her shots, as most of them sell prints for silly money, and of course if a guest copies them they lose that extra. For my part I have no issue with any 'armed guests' as I don't make money from prints, in fact it's all rather fun.
Since virtually every wedding guest is armed with at least a compact, I don't see how it's enforceable outside Nazi Germany. I'd suggest the couple have a look at any small print they signed and see what it says.
There is some logic in 'traditional' photographers not wishing DSLR-types to copy his/her shots, as most of them sell prints for silly money, and of course if a guest copies them they lose that extra. For my part I have no issue with any 'armed guests' as I don't make money from prints, in fact it's all rather fun.
I've seen this discussed on photography forums. The story is that with lots of people waving cameras around it gets difficult to get the groups all looking at the pro at the correct times instead of smiling for uncle arthur off to the left. Also if several people are trying to organise their own groups at the same time then it causes problems.
But that only applies to the formal shots.
Cant see why it would make any difference for candids though.
But that only applies to the formal shots.
Cant see why it would make any difference for candids though.
Simpo Two said:
... in fact it's all rather fun.
A sentiment copied by our wedding photographer, even to the point where he would take pictures with other peoples cameras if they were required to be in the shot (although he always reckoned that the ones he took on others cameras would be the worst on the roll). 
Sounds to me like someone is getting a bit precious about their job.
This is quite frankly b
ks.
As far as any group shots go, if the toggy is worth their salt they will be ale to command the situation well enough to ensure that they get their shots - if they can't they should not be doing the job. I've had no issues keeping things under control, the trick is in maintaining control of the other camera packers by telling them (politely) to hold off while you get he shot, then letting them take their own while staying in position or moving forward slightly (coz you would be using a nice wide angle lens wouldn't you :-) ).
Any photographer who starts making demands for the day needs to be kicked into touch. This is the Bride and Grooms day, the toggy is a paid for service - he should do as the BnG request.
As simpo says though, most toggys try to make their money from dramatically overpriced prints and this is where they fall down. They have failed to move with the times and start to think about providing an image package rather than 20-30-50-etc prints based on how much is willing to be paid.
Go back 10-15 years and the number of additional cameras at a wedding could be counted on one hand, times have changed!!
When booking a toggy for my wedding in 4 weeks time, I looked around the local ones and found packages which were ludicrous for the money, and being a photographer myself I was not prepared to pay the sums requested for (in my opinion) a piss poor level of service and product delivery.
I did try a recommended friend of one of the guests, but the initial part of the conversation went along the line of:
me "what I would like you to do for us is"....cut off by
toggy "No - what I will do for you is...."
errrr thank you and good night
After not too much deliberation we finally settled on someone who despite being double the cost of the pillock in the conversation above, will provide what we want.
While you do get what you pay for, it is not the toggys personal shoot and he is not paying for it !!!
PS simpos booked 19 Sept
ks.As far as any group shots go, if the toggy is worth their salt they will be ale to command the situation well enough to ensure that they get their shots - if they can't they should not be doing the job. I've had no issues keeping things under control, the trick is in maintaining control of the other camera packers by telling them (politely) to hold off while you get he shot, then letting them take their own while staying in position or moving forward slightly (coz you would be using a nice wide angle lens wouldn't you :-) ).
Any photographer who starts making demands for the day needs to be kicked into touch. This is the Bride and Grooms day, the toggy is a paid for service - he should do as the BnG request.
As simpo says though, most toggys try to make their money from dramatically overpriced prints and this is where they fall down. They have failed to move with the times and start to think about providing an image package rather than 20-30-50-etc prints based on how much is willing to be paid.
Go back 10-15 years and the number of additional cameras at a wedding could be counted on one hand, times have changed!!
When booking a toggy for my wedding in 4 weeks time, I looked around the local ones and found packages which were ludicrous for the money, and being a photographer myself I was not prepared to pay the sums requested for (in my opinion) a piss poor level of service and product delivery.
I did try a recommended friend of one of the guests, but the initial part of the conversation went along the line of:
me "what I would like you to do for us is"....cut off by
toggy "No - what I will do for you is...."
errrr thank you and good night
After not too much deliberation we finally settled on someone who despite being double the cost of the pillock in the conversation above, will provide what we want.
While you do get what you pay for, it is not the toggys personal shoot and he is not paying for it !!!
PS simpos booked 19 Sept
mph999 said:
have been asked to do a few "unofficial" pics.
Sounds good, no pressure, and can be fun seeing what you can get.mph999 said:
I have now heard that the official photographer has said he doesn't want anyone taking photographs.
Eh? Who's asked you to do the pics when they've booked a photographer who won't let you. How is this your problem?If it were me I'd inform the B&G I'm happy to take pictures but if the official photographer is going to be a knob about it I'd rather do without the hassle and just get pissed instead, thanks very much!
For what it's worth if the photog had tried this at our wedding I'd have told her where to shove her 70-200L and booked someone else.
this is shocking, are people still managing to book work with this attitude?
I got married 3 weeks ago, had a disk only package from someone i employ, as i am doing my own album, and we are probably using 50% pro photos, and 50% from about 6 guests cameras, where the pro couldnt have possibly have been to get the shots.
The photographer should be good enough to realise there will be other cameras there, adn have the people skills to get the groups looking at him, everyone knows who he is, and why hes there, its not based on bloody chance if they look or not!
the more of these people the better, they have the venture effect for weddings. How much?? you what?? he did what?? instantly, before even getting out a portfolio you are better!
I got married 3 weeks ago, had a disk only package from someone i employ, as i am doing my own album, and we are probably using 50% pro photos, and 50% from about 6 guests cameras, where the pro couldnt have possibly have been to get the shots.
The photographer should be good enough to realise there will be other cameras there, adn have the people skills to get the groups looking at him, everyone knows who he is, and why hes there, its not based on bloody chance if they look or not!
the more of these people the better, they have the venture effect for weddings. How much?? you what?? he did what?? instantly, before even getting out a portfolio you are better!
In line with what everyone else has said, as I understand it there are two types of business model for wedding photographer:
- Go in low, cheap price then recoup model on prints and albums afterwards
- Price a little higher, and don't expect to make too much on extras. Usually the couple are given a soft copy of the images, for them to do as they see fit (possibly subject to certain rights).
Things are going the way of the latter I think, as people are less likely to pay for prints these days.
Usually if I'm at a wedding I'll try and say a quick hello to the photographer, and explain that I'm just taking a few extra shots for the bride and groom as an extra wedding gift, and that I'm not trying to steal his shots. Usually I ask if they were intending to sell prints, if so I steer well clear of what they are doing. That said they are usually pretty happy to have other people there, the last guy said he was happy to have someone else there as it too some of the pressure off him!
I try not to stand behind them and take duplicates of the shots they have set up, it's just not fair, though I try to keep an eye out for things happening when they are going on. Always surprises me that the traditional guys won't waiver - couple of times there have been some funny moments during the formal shots (like the bouchet blowing away with the bride running after it), and they just stand there and ignore them until everyone is posed again. Odd.
The big problem I have in doing this is judging how much PP to do. I love a bride without any blemishes! I never know how much cleaning up to do, the last thing I want to do is ruin the brides image of herself on the day, when the pro 'tog has cleaned up all her lines and spots, and I haven't!
- Go in low, cheap price then recoup model on prints and albums afterwards
- Price a little higher, and don't expect to make too much on extras. Usually the couple are given a soft copy of the images, for them to do as they see fit (possibly subject to certain rights).
Things are going the way of the latter I think, as people are less likely to pay for prints these days.
Usually if I'm at a wedding I'll try and say a quick hello to the photographer, and explain that I'm just taking a few extra shots for the bride and groom as an extra wedding gift, and that I'm not trying to steal his shots. Usually I ask if they were intending to sell prints, if so I steer well clear of what they are doing. That said they are usually pretty happy to have other people there, the last guy said he was happy to have someone else there as it too some of the pressure off him!
I try not to stand behind them and take duplicates of the shots they have set up, it's just not fair, though I try to keep an eye out for things happening when they are going on. Always surprises me that the traditional guys won't waiver - couple of times there have been some funny moments during the formal shots (like the bouchet blowing away with the bride running after it), and they just stand there and ignore them until everyone is posed again. Odd.
The big problem I have in doing this is judging how much PP to do. I love a bride without any blemishes! I never know how much cleaning up to do, the last thing I want to do is ruin the brides image of herself on the day, when the pro 'tog has cleaned up all her lines and spots, and I haven't!
VxDuncan said:
That said they are usually pretty happy to have other people there, the last guy said he was happy to have someone else there as it too some of the pressure off him!
I ask the person with the biggest camera if I can borrow it in the event that mine blows up...VxDuncan said:
The big problem I have in doing this is judging how much PP to do. I love a bride without any blemishes! I never know how much cleaning up to do, the last thing I want to do is ruin the brides image of herself on the day, when the pro 'tog has cleaned up all her lines and spots, and I haven't!
Perhaps surprisngly, I've only been asked to remove facial blemishes once. I feel that by removing spots automatically, I'm actually drawing attention to them, so I supply images as genuine as possible. You can only throw away information once. Apart from blending multiple exposures, the only 'shopping' I do is when an otherwise great photo is spoiled by something like an exit sign in the b/g. In the event that the couple want any of the images subsequently tweaked/cropped/twiddled then I'll happily do it, and then they have both versions. So my main idea is 'keep it real'.I've shot at a few weddings where there has been a pro-tog and never had any hassle. I just stay out of their way and light and the pictures go on a DVD for the B&G with no restrictions on use. When I has shot as principle tog I have just laid down the lw to others - Kepp out of my way and light.
From a personal point of view I have found that most couples want a collections of informal pictures as well as the formal stuff. These are generally best taken by the guests as the pro-tog does not know the people dynamics and relationships.
I would very mush doubt that a "no other cameras" clause would appear in the contract but fully understand the pro-tog wanting space to work in. I totally agree that a pro-tog that cannot manage this effectively is in the wrong jub.
From a personal point of view I have found that most couples want a collections of informal pictures as well as the formal stuff. These are generally best taken by the guests as the pro-tog does not know the people dynamics and relationships.
I would very mush doubt that a "no other cameras" clause would appear in the contract but fully understand the pro-tog wanting space to work in. I totally agree that a pro-tog that cannot manage this effectively is in the wrong jub.
I've had two rather different experience in the last few years as a wedding guest armed with a DSLR...
1) Photographer actively sought to get in my way, and was clearly asking his assistant to get in the way of any shots I tried. The missus and I tend to shoot as a team anyway, so whilst one distracted the assistant, the other got the shots
2) The official photographer was a nice bloke, and actually suggested trying certain settings and lens combinations and was interested in how I got on.
1) Photographer actively sought to get in my way, and was clearly asking his assistant to get in the way of any shots I tried. The missus and I tend to shoot as a team anyway, so whilst one distracted the assistant, the other got the shots
2) The official photographer was a nice bloke, and actually suggested trying certain settings and lens combinations and was interested in how I got on.
I've only been exasperated by a guest once. One of the trickiest photos to get is of the bride and groom coming down the aisle after being married. The lighting is usually poor, there's only one chance which lasts about 10 seconds, and the couple, in their enthusiasm, sometimes forget my advice to take it steadily. Anyway, I was just lining up the perfect shot when a guest with a camcorder jumped out in slap front of me and started walking backwards towards me, completely blocking my view! Hence that couple didn't get any aisle photos... but I could hardly shout at the bloke to get out of my way. You just have to switch the smile back on before anybody notices.
Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 24th August 13:39
Simpo Two said:
You just have to hide the body before anybody notices.
EFA(only done two weddings as the sole tog and both had one very annoying guy - not same guy at both, mind
- who constantly got in my way, shouted for the B&G to look his way etc).Discovered quite quickly that it's not really my thing
Love doing long range candids though.Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff