300 BHP chip for all RV8 cars !!!
Discussion
So getting you car acurately mapped no longer matters then???????
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-V8-ENGINE-CYCLONE-ECU-...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-V8-ENGINE-CYCLONE-ECU-...
Generic chips aren't as good as getting the individual car mapped, but if they're designed for that spec of engine then they may work OK and be a noticeable improvement over the standard OEM chip. The question is whether the buyer's engine is anywhere close to the spec that the chip was designed for.
Although we can't tell from the advert, it's even possible that the seller has a variety of chips available and would talk to the buyer to find out what engine it's for. (Doesn't seem likely from the advert, but if Mark Adams is involved I wouldn't be surprised if he put the extra effort in to get the best match he can.)
Although we can't tell from the advert, it's even possible that the seller has a variety of chips available and would talk to the buyer to find out what engine it's for. (Doesn't seem likely from the advert, but if Mark Adams is involved I wouldn't be surprised if he put the extra effort in to get the best match he can.)
I posted a question to the seller on eBay asking a few searching questions.
Curiously the following question has disappeared without answer, although I have a confirmation email from eBay that they received it.
Perhaps someone else would like to have a go at getting some searching questions answered.
"You’re selling chips programmed with a map developed for an engine tuned to produce 300bhp; not claiming your chip will produce 300bhp in the purchaser’s engine. Is that correct?
At high RPM 14CUX doesn’t adjust fuelling using Lambda. Fitting your chip in a 14CUX or an engine that is tuned differently to the engine for which the map was originally developed, the fuel it will supply at higher RPM will not necessarily be correct for the engine. Incorrect fuelling will at best reduce the power. At worst it will destroy the engine.
Maps developed for different CC differ and engines that have been tuned require custom developed maps to provide the correct fuelling.
How have you overcome these problems that require different maps as a 14CUX lacks the facility to overcome these problems at higher RPM?
Your chip potentially or probably will damage the engine, what liability do you assume that your product will increase BHP over the standard map in purchasers’ engines without damaging them?"
Curiously the following question has disappeared without answer, although I have a confirmation email from eBay that they received it.
Perhaps someone else would like to have a go at getting some searching questions answered.
"You’re selling chips programmed with a map developed for an engine tuned to produce 300bhp; not claiming your chip will produce 300bhp in the purchaser’s engine. Is that correct?
At high RPM 14CUX doesn’t adjust fuelling using Lambda. Fitting your chip in a 14CUX or an engine that is tuned differently to the engine for which the map was originally developed, the fuel it will supply at higher RPM will not necessarily be correct for the engine. Incorrect fuelling will at best reduce the power. At worst it will destroy the engine.
Maps developed for different CC differ and engines that have been tuned require custom developed maps to provide the correct fuelling.
How have you overcome these problems that require different maps as a 14CUX lacks the facility to overcome these problems at higher RPM?
Your chip potentially or probably will damage the engine, what liability do you assume that your product will increase BHP over the standard map in purchasers’ engines without damaging them?"
They're not particularly searching questions.
I believe you are correct that the chip is designed for a '300 bhp' rated engine, not that fitting it will produce 300 bhp.
The 14CUX uses a hotwire air flow meter as a load sensor. If the hotwire sensor worked perfectly then you would only ever need one chip, there would be no need for any mapping and you could fit the same EFI setup on any engine at all (up to the maximum air flow measuring limit of the AFM) and get exactly the right fuelling immediately.
In practice the AFM is good but not perfect, and doesn't produce a signal that is exactly proportional to air flow over the whole load/rev range. By tweaking the map to compensate for this you can control the air/fuel ration more accurately. You can also compensate for variations in the fuel delivery system eg different injector flow rate, opening/closing times, voltage/temperate sensitivity) and variations in the induction system characteristics affecting transient response, uneven distribution of fuel or air between different cylinders and so on.
When you adjust a hotwire map to suit a different engine you aren't defining the total fuel requirements, you are merely fine tuning the AFM calibration. Since that doesn't change hugely between similar engines, the map doesn't have to be spot on for a specific engine it only has to be about right.
If the EFI system had a different type of load sensor, for example if it used throttle angle or MAP for load, the map would vary far more between engines. For example increasing the engine capacity (keeping everything else identical) would require the whole map to be scaled up. That's not the case with hotwire since it is actually measuring mass air flow into the engine.
I believe you are correct that the chip is designed for a '300 bhp' rated engine, not that fitting it will produce 300 bhp.
The 14CUX uses a hotwire air flow meter as a load sensor. If the hotwire sensor worked perfectly then you would only ever need one chip, there would be no need for any mapping and you could fit the same EFI setup on any engine at all (up to the maximum air flow measuring limit of the AFM) and get exactly the right fuelling immediately.
In practice the AFM is good but not perfect, and doesn't produce a signal that is exactly proportional to air flow over the whole load/rev range. By tweaking the map to compensate for this you can control the air/fuel ration more accurately. You can also compensate for variations in the fuel delivery system eg different injector flow rate, opening/closing times, voltage/temperate sensitivity) and variations in the induction system characteristics affecting transient response, uneven distribution of fuel or air between different cylinders and so on.
When you adjust a hotwire map to suit a different engine you aren't defining the total fuel requirements, you are merely fine tuning the AFM calibration. Since that doesn't change hugely between similar engines, the map doesn't have to be spot on for a specific engine it only has to be about right.
If the EFI system had a different type of load sensor, for example if it used throttle angle or MAP for load, the map would vary far more between engines. For example increasing the engine capacity (keeping everything else identical) would require the whole map to be scaled up. That's not the case with hotwire since it is actually measuring mass air flow into the engine.
Edited by GreenV8S on Sunday 16th August 16:00
Spoke to Mark Adams today and no, definitely nothing to do with him.I quess it just reconfirms that MA is the man when it comes to the chip/computer running side of our V8's if the opposition feel the need to give their product as close a name as possible to the market leader's name Tornado.
The thing i find worrying is that the ebay counter says 740 people have looked at that listing.Guys don't waste your money if you want the real deal call MA on 01694720144.
The thing i find worrying is that the ebay counter says 740 people have looked at that listing.Guys don't waste your money if you want the real deal call MA on 01694720144.
;)Just as a matter of interest Ive tried a whole range of chips on my 3.9. TVR 3.9, TVR 4.5, Adams 4.2, and now a Adams Tornado. You can see the differences in the maps with the rate of change of the lambda outputs in the closed loop area of the map (below 3400 rpm). When the mapping is a long way out, the switch rate between the upper and lower fuel limits for the catalyst take place much more slowly, as the ECU has to apply more offset to get the Lambda probes to switch because the base mapping is wrong. You can also get the car to shunt badly as the ECU has to make these big corrections, and can hit the limit of trim the ECU can apply. Above 3400 RPM the ECU only supplys what the sensors tell it, and does not make any coreections, so the base mapping needs to be correct to prevent damage and produce maximum power. I must admit Im really impressed with the Tornado chip, its fuel control is really close with rapid and even switching, and it also runs fairly lean under light load for better economy. Mark guards all his chips with a scrambler that makes them hard to replicate, and the chip in the advert has no scambler, so is easily copied. Cost to copy about £1 !! Another problem around the 300 BHP mark is you cant get enough fuel through the injectors at stock pressure, so you have to increase the fuel pressure, that completely alters the basic mapping requirements, so you must know EXACTLY how the origional motor it was programmed for was set up.
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