Lotus Europa S/SE (Current Model) - Opinions?
Discussion
These look like conspicuously good value at the moment - especially S models with the 225Bhp remap.
Does anyone have any experience of these? Might be a perfect everyday commuter/occasional track car for me.....
What are they like to live with? Can you actually hear the stereo when on a cruise? Are they exciting enough to drive? Running costs reasonable?
Does anyone have any experience of these? Might be a perfect everyday commuter/occasional track car for me.....
What are they like to live with? Can you actually hear the stereo when on a cruise? Are they exciting enough to drive? Running costs reasonable?
Running costs - as you see in used values the depreciation is quite high 
I thought it was a nice enough car but not far enough away from the Elise to be considered different. Quieter and with a punchy delivery (esp against 111R) and a plush interior on the lat models......
TBH I am tooo much of an elise man to give an objective opinion..... I like the noisy, convertable etc.
I thought it was a nice enough car but not far enough away from the Elise to be considered different. Quieter and with a punchy delivery (esp against 111R) and a plush interior on the lat models......
TBH I am tooo much of an elise man to give an objective opinion..... I like the noisy, convertable etc.
I am probably too much of an Europa drive to give a balance view as well.
I use mine as a commuter car with occasional track days. For me they are pretty easy to live with and are very quick. My local Lotus garage drives it from time to time and they are always raving about how quick it is. I had a go in a Exige S today and straight line I would say they are pretty equal although the Europa wins on wow factor when the turbo kicks in. My Europa does have the Miltek but even standard the Europa is a lot quicker than most Elises. With the Miltek exhaust a Europa will leave a Honda engined Elise for dead, especially when it comes to ease of overtaking. If you can handle the power and want a great looking everyday car go Europa. If you want wind in the hair motoring and want another great looking car go Elise.
C43
I use mine as a commuter car with occasional track days. For me they are pretty easy to live with and are very quick. My local Lotus garage drives it from time to time and they are always raving about how quick it is. I had a go in a Exige S today and straight line I would say they are pretty equal although the Europa wins on wow factor when the turbo kicks in. My Europa does have the Miltek but even standard the Europa is a lot quicker than most Elises. With the Miltek exhaust a Europa will leave a Honda engined Elise for dead, especially when it comes to ease of overtaking. If you can handle the power and want a great looking everyday car go Europa. If you want wind in the hair motoring and want another great looking car go Elise.
C43
C43 said:
With the Miltek exhaust a Europa will leave a Honda engined Elise for dead, especially when it comes to ease of overtaking. If you can handle the power and want a great looking everyday car go Europa. If you want wind in the hair motoring and want another great looking car go Elise.
C43
Are they really that fast??? C43
i knew they were quick buy didn't realise they were that fast
IMO - It is all about the torque,, so in-gear acceleration feels that bit quicker... against the clock I am not so sure. I think it posts near identicle figures to a Elise SC (and therefore the slightly heavier, but more powerful Exige S) up to about 110mph. When the Europas aero has a bit more of an effect.
I pawed over the stats for quite a long time when assessing my next car purchase.. when driving them back to back the Europa felt quicker, but the flexibility of the longer gear in an SC should not be overlooked. I decided that the Europa was the better car for road use where short bursts of power for overtaking are more useful than the reduced number of gearshifts that add smoothness on the track. So I got my money out... and then bought a 996 turbo!
It certainly fulfills the straight line urge I wanted, but I will be back in a Lotus within a year or so I think - the image is a bit difficult to live with.
When Thorney first did the Europa upgrades the road tests said the car was bloody quick and an Exige would have to be well driven to stay with it. For the engine all John did was run the 225 map and fit a Miltek exhaust and this makes a big difference. Even in standard 225 form the top end on the Europa is very impressive. I did a run to Germany and on the Autobarn a standard Europa can live very happily with a M3 or 996, as the drivers of the other two cars will testify.
C43
C43
I have had mine from new and before that I had 2 Elises. To be honest to the normal average driver (like me!) they are very hard to tell apart on the basis of handling. Power delivery is very different though and I much prefer the Europa for this, they have a very torquey engine which helps with overtaking and day to day driving.
Plus Points:
Quiet for a Lotus (You can hear the stereo on normal volume at motorway speeds)
Great Handling
Good boot space
More comfortable than an Elise (I have driven mine from Cheshire to Norfolk a few times)
Reasonable MPG
Seem to have good reliability (touch wood)
Rare, you would not believe the amount of attention you get as they are such a rare sight
Negative Points:
Interior is almost identical to later Elise’s and not different enough
Standard Head Unit is a bit naff and the integrated SATNAV is a waste of space
Cannot see out of the rear view mirror at night (all you can see are your dials)
Boring engine note with standard exhaust
Standard front wheels are strange size so it limits the rubber you can buy
I hope this helps.
Plus Points:
Quiet for a Lotus (You can hear the stereo on normal volume at motorway speeds)
Great Handling
Good boot space
More comfortable than an Elise (I have driven mine from Cheshire to Norfolk a few times)
Reasonable MPG
Seem to have good reliability (touch wood)
Rare, you would not believe the amount of attention you get as they are such a rare sight
Negative Points:
Interior is almost identical to later Elise’s and not different enough
Standard Head Unit is a bit naff and the integrated SATNAV is a waste of space
Cannot see out of the rear view mirror at night (all you can see are your dials)
Boring engine note with standard exhaust
Standard front wheels are strange size so it limits the rubber you can buy
I hope this helps.
Test drove a few lotus based cars before purchasing the Europa. The only thing that compared was a VX220T.
But then I liked the acceleration where most lotuses’ are mainly praised for handling. Not that it’s lacking in that department. It’s still not that practical IMO, but yes you can listen to the stereo. I think the brakes could be better and it can get pretty hot in the cabin, but does have aircon.
Get a well looked after 2nd hand Europa and cost of ownership should be pretty damn cheep for this sort of performance.
But then I liked the acceleration where most lotuses’ are mainly praised for handling. Not that it’s lacking in that department. It’s still not that practical IMO, but yes you can listen to the stereo. I think the brakes could be better and it can get pretty hot in the cabin, but does have aircon.
Get a well looked after 2nd hand Europa and cost of ownership should be pretty damn cheep for this sort of performance.
Andy G Bmth said:
C43 said:
With the Miltek exhaust a Europa will leave a Honda engined Elise for dead, especially when it comes to ease of overtaking. If you can handle the power and want a great looking everyday car go Europa. If you want wind in the hair motoring and want another great looking car go Elise.
C43
Are they really that fast??? C43
i knew they were quick buy didn't realise they were that fast
if you look at Randy's car in LOT power trim (250 at the hubs - way more than a std Europa and somewhat lighter) and look how Ben Pitch, Chris Headlan and Jamie Stanley's NA Elises compare in straight lines, you get the picture.
(waits for the inevitable pages of argument)
Only ever seen CR Hofman car race at two events and he won both times in first races.
The 111R I tested may have had issues but did not feel as quick as the Europa. I guess it’s the way the power is so low down in the Europa. In normal road situation you are always using this power in the Europa. In a 111R your have to rev the pants off of it to appreciate the power. Great for track days, but on the public road you are going to attract attention.
I had my first moment in the Europa after my last post. It bit me after not following my own advice. The chassis done a great job though, but feel a bit of a dick and slightly unnerved. Be safe people.
The 111R I tested may have had issues but did not feel as quick as the Europa. I guess it’s the way the power is so low down in the Europa. In normal road situation you are always using this power in the Europa. In a 111R your have to rev the pants off of it to appreciate the power. Great for track days, but on the public road you are going to attract attention.
I had my first moment in the Europa after my last post. It bit me after not following my own advice. The chassis done a great job though, but feel a bit of a dick and slightly unnerved. Be safe people.
As scruffy says, it's ambitious thinking to believe a stock Europa will keep up with a Honda elise as the weight difference is significant. That said I do think the Europa is the quickest of the new generation models on the road and also the most pleasant to drive. The power delivery really does help the car pickup and go and it's overtaking abilities are ace. I would certainly pick a Europa over any other lotus as a daily drive.
Hi There,
I have now done 16000 miles in my Europa, I have the 225 map, Miltek, Nitrons and AO48 tyres (TD wheels)
Here is a brief summary of what I have experienced:
Car can keep up with friends Honda S1
Ease away from 111R
I can hear the stereo cruising nicely at speed and can hold a conversation if you find yourself having to take a passenger (previously owned an Elise). Trip to the Alps and Nurburgring with Seloc tested it well!
It is a useful tool on track! Flatters my driving anyway...
Running costs, well I have just had an annual service for £205 all in at Sinclaires. Fuel economy - who knows and who cares. But as with any Lotus tempting to modify....
Bad points - Standard one does not do it for me and the 225 ECU is not as good as it should be at times, just waiting for Randy to pull his finger out and get the replacement sorted.
I love my Europa but as with any car choice it is a personal thing.
Hope this is useful
Lisa
I have now done 16000 miles in my Europa, I have the 225 map, Miltek, Nitrons and AO48 tyres (TD wheels)
Here is a brief summary of what I have experienced:
Car can keep up with friends Honda S1
Ease away from 111R
I can hear the stereo cruising nicely at speed and can hold a conversation if you find yourself having to take a passenger (previously owned an Elise). Trip to the Alps and Nurburgring with Seloc tested it well!
It is a useful tool on track! Flatters my driving anyway...
Running costs, well I have just had an annual service for £205 all in at Sinclaires. Fuel economy - who knows and who cares. But as with any Lotus tempting to modify....
Bad points - Standard one does not do it for me and the 225 ECU is not as good as it should be at times, just waiting for Randy to pull his finger out and get the replacement sorted.
I love my Europa but as with any car choice it is a personal thing.
Hope this is useful
Lisa
loopylea said:
Hi There,
I have now done 16000 miles in my Europa, I have the 225 map, Miltek, Nitrons and AO48 tyres (TD wheels)
Here is a brief summary of what I have experienced:
Car can keep up with friends Honda S1
Ease away from 111R
I can hear the stereo cruising nicely at speed and can hold a conversation if you find yourself having to take a passenger (previously owned an Elise). Trip to the Alps and Nurburgring with Seloc tested it well!
It is a useful tool on track! Flatters my driving anyway...
Running costs, well I have just had an annual service for £205 all in at Sinclaires. Fuel economy - who knows and who cares. But as with any Lotus tempting to modify....
Bad points - Standard one does not do it for me and the 225 ECU is not as good as it should be at times, just waiting for Randy to pull his finger out and get the replacement sorted.
I love my Europa but as with any car choice it is a personal thing.
Hope this is useful
Lisa
Thanks Lisa, and thanks Norgles - great stuff. Very very helpful. I think I'll just have to arrange a test drive now to see how it is for myself.I have now done 16000 miles in my Europa, I have the 225 map, Miltek, Nitrons and AO48 tyres (TD wheels)
Here is a brief summary of what I have experienced:
Car can keep up with friends Honda S1
Ease away from 111R
I can hear the stereo cruising nicely at speed and can hold a conversation if you find yourself having to take a passenger (previously owned an Elise). Trip to the Alps and Nurburgring with Seloc tested it well!
It is a useful tool on track! Flatters my driving anyway...
Running costs, well I have just had an annual service for £205 all in at Sinclaires. Fuel economy - who knows and who cares. But as with any Lotus tempting to modify....
Bad points - Standard one does not do it for me and the 225 ECU is not as good as it should be at times, just waiting for Randy to pull his finger out and get the replacement sorted.
I love my Europa but as with any car choice it is a personal thing.
Hope this is useful
Lisa
Dave
Nice to get some comments from the Elise and Exige owners, I thought it had all gone quiet over there...
I have not timed any of them, I just get to drive Honda engine Elise, Exige and Europa on a regular basis. My Europa does have the Miltek on it but as I think Randy says the Europa just has so much more usable power, especially when it comes to overtaking. A well sorted Europa will cane an standard Elise, that much I am happy with. As far as an Exige and Honda Elise is concerned its just down to spec but at high speed the Europa also has a good Cd advantage.
Just out of interest in driving all these cars I have got to drive a few different tyre specs and the A048s are a major step better than the T1R toyos in terms of speed of turn in. Lisa I see you have A048s and Nitrons. Whats your verdict, still usable every day?
cheers
C43
I have not timed any of them, I just get to drive Honda engine Elise, Exige and Europa on a regular basis. My Europa does have the Miltek on it but as I think Randy says the Europa just has so much more usable power, especially when it comes to overtaking. A well sorted Europa will cane an standard Elise, that much I am happy with. As far as an Exige and Honda Elise is concerned its just down to spec but at high speed the Europa also has a good Cd advantage.
Just out of interest in driving all these cars I have got to drive a few different tyre specs and the A048s are a major step better than the T1R toyos in terms of speed of turn in. Lisa I see you have A048s and Nitrons. Whats your verdict, still usable every day?
cheers
C43
There's a similar thread here that I found when looking at buying one.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I don't think I've ever heard of a Europa owner who didn't think it was a great car.
Badly marketed at start, but well worth looking at now - try to get one with a lux pack interior if possible, as it makes a difference interior-wise compared to Elise(if that's what you want).
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I don't think I've ever heard of a Europa owner who didn't think it was a great car.
Badly marketed at start, but well worth looking at now - try to get one with a lux pack interior if possible, as it makes a difference interior-wise compared to Elise(if that's what you want).
Just out of interest in driving all these cars I have got to drive a few different tyre specs and the A048s are a major step better than the T1R toyos in terms of speed of turn in. Lisa I see you have A048s and Nitrons. Whats your verdict, still usable every day?
cheers
C43
100%, the Nitrons can be set a bit softer for the road depending on your preference. I have mine quite firm on the road as it gives me a more 'Lotus' feel.
The AO48s are superb (usual tramling on uneven surfaces) but I also have a set of AO39s which I use for long trips as I have been caught out in torrential downpours in the Alps on the 48s!
The AO39s are brilliant and give a slightly more forgiving ride. I have also had the Geo tweaked which helps the turn in and seems to make it more controllable when the back end wants to come round.
Lisa
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