A3 T Sport Quattro - tale of woe from a newbie
Discussion
Hi Guys
I used to post quite frequently on the Porsche forum a couple of years ago before buying a z3mcoupe so I've been away for a while....I'm hoping things are still as helpful as they used to be!
I picked up a 1.8 t sport Quattro for £2600 on a 51 plate (2002) via a private sale. The car looked in good condition, no obvious signs of engine troubles (120k on the clock), new(ish) p-zero's all round....guy said he'd lost his job so had to sell. 12 months MOT, one advisory regarding a light misting of oil on the O/S/F shock (which knocked a fair bit). Ad said car was in A1 condition and the guy seemed genuine.......test drive was fine (turbo had a little lag nothing untoward). He confirmed no electrical issues or head gasket problems.
5 miles from the house and after putting petrol in (it had about 60 miles left during the test drive) I noticed the temp gauge had gone off the scale (it was sitting in a normal position during the test drive and the MOT emission test said temp gauge showed warm engine).....5 miles later overheating warning light...pulled over popped the bonnet and a bit of steam (in the p*ssing rain). Phoned the guy and he admitted the temp gauge was broken and never moves (despite assuring me there were no electrical issues) he then admitted the water pump was probably faulty.....got it into my local VAG specialist (500 metres from my house!)....and it turned out the following is wrong:
Instrument cluster temp + fuel gauge is faulty
o/s/f shock absorber is leaking heavily
Front pads and disc are low recheck in 3-4k
Rear anti roll bar collars are spilt
Exhaust hanger bracket missing from centre box
o/s/f wish bone rear bush is torn
Front anti roll bar collars is split
Cam cover gasket leaking
All wipers are in poor condition
Indicator bulbs at rear are starting to go white
Poor water circulation is causing over heating (cause might be water pump not changed with cambelt service)
I've called the MOT place as the car has done 200 miles since the MOT and it shouldn't have passed! My firm is retained to prosecute on behalf of VOSA so I've called the garage and had a 'nice chat'.....they want to check things out to see what they think was 'missed' on the MOT and come to some arrangement....I'm fixing the water pump and doing a new cambelt at the same time....just wondered how much the other stuff might cost? If the ARB collars have split do I need new ARBs?
Thanks
Russell
I used to post quite frequently on the Porsche forum a couple of years ago before buying a z3mcoupe so I've been away for a while....I'm hoping things are still as helpful as they used to be!
I picked up a 1.8 t sport Quattro for £2600 on a 51 plate (2002) via a private sale. The car looked in good condition, no obvious signs of engine troubles (120k on the clock), new(ish) p-zero's all round....guy said he'd lost his job so had to sell. 12 months MOT, one advisory regarding a light misting of oil on the O/S/F shock (which knocked a fair bit). Ad said car was in A1 condition and the guy seemed genuine.......test drive was fine (turbo had a little lag nothing untoward). He confirmed no electrical issues or head gasket problems.
5 miles from the house and after putting petrol in (it had about 60 miles left during the test drive) I noticed the temp gauge had gone off the scale (it was sitting in a normal position during the test drive and the MOT emission test said temp gauge showed warm engine).....5 miles later overheating warning light...pulled over popped the bonnet and a bit of steam (in the p*ssing rain). Phoned the guy and he admitted the temp gauge was broken and never moves (despite assuring me there were no electrical issues) he then admitted the water pump was probably faulty.....got it into my local VAG specialist (500 metres from my house!)....and it turned out the following is wrong:
Instrument cluster temp + fuel gauge is faulty
o/s/f shock absorber is leaking heavily
Front pads and disc are low recheck in 3-4k
Rear anti roll bar collars are spilt
Exhaust hanger bracket missing from centre box
o/s/f wish bone rear bush is torn
Front anti roll bar collars is split
Cam cover gasket leaking
All wipers are in poor condition
Indicator bulbs at rear are starting to go white
Poor water circulation is causing over heating (cause might be water pump not changed with cambelt service)
I've called the MOT place as the car has done 200 miles since the MOT and it shouldn't have passed! My firm is retained to prosecute on behalf of VOSA so I've called the garage and had a 'nice chat'.....they want to check things out to see what they think was 'missed' on the MOT and come to some arrangement....I'm fixing the water pump and doing a new cambelt at the same time....just wondered how much the other stuff might cost? If the ARB collars have split do I need new ARBs?
Thanks
Russell
Unless the seller was a registered trader, there's nothing you can do about him, weather he knew about the faults or not. Buyer beware, sold as seen etc.
However, some of those items should have failed the mot, Most Notably the leaking damper.
The anti roll bars wont fail if there isn't excessive movement and those broken sleeves only really cause enough moment to make a slight knock (you need new roll bars+ bushes to fix), I'm pretty sire there needs to be movement to fail the lower wishbone too, Brakes are iffy, low isnt the same as MOT failure, wiper blade need to be split to fail etc.
We sub out our MOT, I offten report faults like this, then the cars pass, just because something isnt right, doesnt mean its bad enough to fail an MOT.
The temp gauge means a new dash £500. Cam belt and Water Pump £300ish, Anti roll bars £200. Wipers £50. Cam cover gasket £150. Damper £200, a good 2 hours for the wishbones bushes, Parts are only like £10 or something daft.
This is all common stuff on these old things, I've done a free health check on a TT in the last month with an almost identical list, it need two springs too, it actually over heated on me on road test. Customer had just paid £10k or it on ebay, so you better off than him.
However, some of those items should have failed the mot, Most Notably the leaking damper.
The anti roll bars wont fail if there isn't excessive movement and those broken sleeves only really cause enough moment to make a slight knock (you need new roll bars+ bushes to fix), I'm pretty sire there needs to be movement to fail the lower wishbone too, Brakes are iffy, low isnt the same as MOT failure, wiper blade need to be split to fail etc.
We sub out our MOT, I offten report faults like this, then the cars pass, just because something isnt right, doesnt mean its bad enough to fail an MOT.
The temp gauge means a new dash £500. Cam belt and Water Pump £300ish, Anti roll bars £200. Wipers £50. Cam cover gasket £150. Damper £200, a good 2 hours for the wishbones bushes, Parts are only like £10 or something daft.
This is all common stuff on these old things, I've done a free health check on a TT in the last month with an almost identical list, it need two springs too, it actually over heated on me on road test. Customer had just paid £10k or it on ebay, so you better off than him.
Thanks guys....the words sold as seen have no legal meaning (I'm a solicitor for my sins). Private sale a vehicle has to match the descritpion (in this case A1 condition) and it's the same as any contract express statements from contractual warranties...but all that said I don't think there's any real likely comeback on the chap.
As for the likely bill....sounds hefty...waterpump currently being sorted (and cambelt change at the same time for good measure). shock will be next I guess, and then the ARB's......although most things will have to wait as I sold my z3M coupe to help pay for my wedding so car repairs are bottom of the list....what's the likely effect of me driving on shafted ARB's....could it damge the subframe?
Thanks again
russell
As for the likely bill....sounds hefty...waterpump currently being sorted (and cambelt change at the same time for good measure). shock will be next I guess, and then the ARB's......although most things will have to wait as I sold my z3M coupe to help pay for my wedding so car repairs are bottom of the list....what's the likely effect of me driving on shafted ARB's....could it damge the subframe?
Thanks again
russell
When I was selling cars we had a legal person come and talk to us about it and all this sold as seen malarky buyer beware is just that, rubbish. If the seller private or not knows than they are responsible, so getting your money back I'd guess would be a question of small claims court or maybe asking him/her to pay for the repairs.
Edited by missing the VR6 on Friday 14th August 23:24
russ3ll said:
Hi Guys
I used to post quite frequently on the Porsche forum a couple of years ago before buying a z3mcoupe so I've been away for a while....I'm hoping things are still as helpful as they used to be!
I picked up a 1.8 t sport Quattro for £2600 on a 51 plate (2002) via a private sale. The car looked in good condition, no obvious signs of engine troubles (120k on the clock), new(ish) p-zero's all round....guy said he'd lost his job so had to sell. 12 months MOT, one advisory regarding a light misting of oil on the O/S/F shock (which knocked a fair bit). Ad said car was in A1 condition and the guy seemed genuine.......test drive was fine (turbo had a little lag nothing untoward). He confirmed no electrical issues or head gasket problems.
5 miles from the house and after putting petrol in (it had about 60 miles left during the test drive) I noticed the temp gauge had gone off the scale (it was sitting in a normal position during the test drive and the MOT emission test said temp gauge showed warm engine).....5 miles later overheating warning light...pulled over popped the bonnet and a bit of steam (in the p*ssing rain). Phoned the guy and he admitted the temp gauge was broken and never moves (despite assuring me there were no electrical issues) he then admitted the water pump was probably faulty.....got it into my local VAG specialist (500 metres from my house!)....and it turned out the following is wrong:
Instrument cluster temp + fuel gauge is faulty
o/s/f shock absorber is leaking heavily
Front pads and disc are low recheck in 3-4k
Rear anti roll bar collars are spilt
Exhaust hanger bracket missing from centre box
o/s/f wish bone rear bush is torn
Front anti roll bar collars is split
Cam cover gasket leaking
All wipers are in poor condition
Indicator bulbs at rear are starting to go white
Poor water circulation is causing over heating (cause might be water pump not changed with cambelt service)
I've called the MOT place as the car has done 200 miles since the MOT and it shouldn't have passed! My firm is retained to prosecute on behalf of VOSA so I've called the garage and had a 'nice chat'.....they want to check things out to see what they think was 'missed' on the MOT and come to some arrangement....I'm fixing the water pump and doing a new cambelt at the same time....just wondered how much the other stuff might cost? If the ARB collars have split do I need new ARBs?
Thanks
Russell
Ive bought my last 2 cars after getting the AA to test the car. As im in NI + usually buy on the mainland -its a great piece of mind for £250. Anything that needs fixed is a great bargaining tool so the £250 usually pays for itself straight awayI used to post quite frequently on the Porsche forum a couple of years ago before buying a z3mcoupe so I've been away for a while....I'm hoping things are still as helpful as they used to be!
I picked up a 1.8 t sport Quattro for £2600 on a 51 plate (2002) via a private sale. The car looked in good condition, no obvious signs of engine troubles (120k on the clock), new(ish) p-zero's all round....guy said he'd lost his job so had to sell. 12 months MOT, one advisory regarding a light misting of oil on the O/S/F shock (which knocked a fair bit). Ad said car was in A1 condition and the guy seemed genuine.......test drive was fine (turbo had a little lag nothing untoward). He confirmed no electrical issues or head gasket problems.
5 miles from the house and after putting petrol in (it had about 60 miles left during the test drive) I noticed the temp gauge had gone off the scale (it was sitting in a normal position during the test drive and the MOT emission test said temp gauge showed warm engine).....5 miles later overheating warning light...pulled over popped the bonnet and a bit of steam (in the p*ssing rain). Phoned the guy and he admitted the temp gauge was broken and never moves (despite assuring me there were no electrical issues) he then admitted the water pump was probably faulty.....got it into my local VAG specialist (500 metres from my house!)....and it turned out the following is wrong:
Instrument cluster temp + fuel gauge is faulty
o/s/f shock absorber is leaking heavily
Front pads and disc are low recheck in 3-4k
Rear anti roll bar collars are spilt
Exhaust hanger bracket missing from centre box
o/s/f wish bone rear bush is torn
Front anti roll bar collars is split
Cam cover gasket leaking
All wipers are in poor condition
Indicator bulbs at rear are starting to go white
Poor water circulation is causing over heating (cause might be water pump not changed with cambelt service)
I've called the MOT place as the car has done 200 miles since the MOT and it shouldn't have passed! My firm is retained to prosecute on behalf of VOSA so I've called the garage and had a 'nice chat'.....they want to check things out to see what they think was 'missed' on the MOT and come to some arrangement....I'm fixing the water pump and doing a new cambelt at the same time....just wondered how much the other stuff might cost? If the ARB collars have split do I need new ARBs?
Thanks
Russell
Nice.....clearly what I've said is lost on you Colonial.
I'm not trying to make anyone trmeble and I'm pretty much taking it all on the chin - all I was after was info on how much it's going to cost me (and trying to vent my anger at someone being a lying little s*it bag......)! In any event, if you bought a house and the seller told you there was nothing wrong with the electrics and after buying it her turned round and told you actually he knew the mains supply was f*cked I think you'd be more than a little miffed!
I'm not trying to make anyone trmeble and I'm pretty much taking it all on the chin - all I was after was info on how much it's going to cost me (and trying to vent my anger at someone being a lying little s*it bag......)! In any event, if you bought a house and the seller told you there was nothing wrong with the electrics and after buying it her turned round and told you actually he knew the mains supply was f*cked I think you'd be more than a little miffed!
About 90% of what you claim are things wrong with the car could easily have been checked by yourself at the time of going to look at the car. You mention the dash is not working correctly, suspension damper leaking oil badly, pads worn down, indicators going white, these things are an easy "spot" even by yourself. I cant see how you can come on here and blame other for what you have found, i blame you for not looking and seeing the obvious and not being able to walk away from a heap, by the sounds of it.
Easy lads! Don't you think the chaps had enough of a hard time without your help no need to put the boot in. Give a fellow enthusiast a break!!
Many of those problems are low cost small fry. most cars would have a long list if you went through them like that. The poor reading is I would think more likely to be the temp sensor which doesn't read correctly / can be damaged when a waterpump fails. The waterpump is a very common fault as for some reason it was made with a plastic impeller on our cars?! I have just replaced mine with a metal one from GSF which is actually cheaper and will last longer. Look on any golf forum for more details (same part as mk4 gti).
The ARB's were failed on my car also. Probably on many others who just haven't picked it up yet. Very unlikely to cause much damage providing you don't strain the handling too much which would put extra pressure on the components around the outside front wheel (where the load is and cannot be transferred correctly) and due to the extra roll. The parts are not expensive from Audi (about £150 all in for the S3 model), the labour is going to be a little more because the front sub frame has to come off and wheels have to be re-aligned once complete say £250 from a good vw/audi specialist.
The front shock absorber I would get done pretty sharpish if its bad other than that.. if they are the only faults picked up I wouldn't say it was a bad buy. There's nothing wrong with it that £500-600 wouldn't fix and then you know everything’s right, which is more than you can say for most cars you might choose to buy in the same price/age bracket.
Don't be disheartened I think you've done alright. Pity the guy was dishonest but he's not alone and if he HAS lost his job (which is very possible) he probably didn't have a great deal of choice.
Many of those problems are low cost small fry. most cars would have a long list if you went through them like that. The poor reading is I would think more likely to be the temp sensor which doesn't read correctly / can be damaged when a waterpump fails. The waterpump is a very common fault as for some reason it was made with a plastic impeller on our cars?! I have just replaced mine with a metal one from GSF which is actually cheaper and will last longer. Look on any golf forum for more details (same part as mk4 gti).
The ARB's were failed on my car also. Probably on many others who just haven't picked it up yet. Very unlikely to cause much damage providing you don't strain the handling too much which would put extra pressure on the components around the outside front wheel (where the load is and cannot be transferred correctly) and due to the extra roll. The parts are not expensive from Audi (about £150 all in for the S3 model), the labour is going to be a little more because the front sub frame has to come off and wheels have to be re-aligned once complete say £250 from a good vw/audi specialist.
The front shock absorber I would get done pretty sharpish if its bad other than that.. if they are the only faults picked up I wouldn't say it was a bad buy. There's nothing wrong with it that £500-600 wouldn't fix and then you know everything’s right, which is more than you can say for most cars you might choose to buy in the same price/age bracket.
Don't be disheartened I think you've done alright. Pity the guy was dishonest but he's not alone and if he HAS lost his job (which is very possible) he probably didn't have a great deal of choice.
Edited by Niffty951 on Tuesday 18th August 09:12
ps if they say re-check the pads in 3-4k they'll do 10k easily! That's something all garages say if the pads are not brand new!
I didn't notice the torn bush when I first looked either. I'd add that to the defo do list and try to get it done at the same time as the anti roll bars because it'll save doing the alignment twice!
I didn't notice the torn bush when I first looked either. I'd add that to the defo do list and try to get it done at the same time as the anti roll bars because it'll save doing the alignment twice!
russ3ll said:
Nice.....clearly what I've said is lost on you Colonial.
I'm not trying to make anyone trmeble and I'm pretty much taking it all on the chin - all I was after was info on how much it's going to cost me (and trying to vent my anger at someone being a lying little s*it bag......)! In any event, if you bought a house and the seller told you there was nothing wrong with the electrics and after buying it her turned round and told you actually he knew the mains supply was f*cked I think you'd be more than a little miffed!
If I were buying a house I'd have a survey done, same with a car with that mileage.I'm not trying to make anyone trmeble and I'm pretty much taking it all on the chin - all I was after was info on how much it's going to cost me (and trying to vent my anger at someone being a lying little s*it bag......)! In any event, if you bought a house and the seller told you there was nothing wrong with the electrics and after buying it her turned round and told you actually he knew the mains supply was f*cked I think you'd be more than a little miffed!
Sorry to hear of your misfortune but...
No idea how much that lot will cost you but probably a few hundred quid. Make sure you get it to a good indy and see if you can pay £££.
Good luck
Edited by Hoolio on Tuesday 18th August 13:42
To be honest I was expecting to sort out a few minor niggles which were evident.
The dash wasn't evident as the temp gauge sits at the normal level when the fuel tank isn't full (as I later found out). As for the minor bits I only mentioned them as some should have been an MOT failue so I smell foul play with the garage.
The suspension was my fault...but I wouldn't have known what to look for (other than should have bounced the car to check the shocks).
As for an AA check in hindsight great idea in practice not possible - as with anything in life sometimes you have to take a punt and take someones word for it - they wanted to sell there and then which should have rung alarm bells and whilst I know it's the oldest trick in the book a couple of calls about it came in when I was there. Plus I needed to buy a car desperately as I'd been without wheels for weeks.
Anyway it seems there's a tad too much emotion flying around in this forum so I think I'll leave the post parked here....
The dash wasn't evident as the temp gauge sits at the normal level when the fuel tank isn't full (as I later found out). As for the minor bits I only mentioned them as some should have been an MOT failue so I smell foul play with the garage.
The suspension was my fault...but I wouldn't have known what to look for (other than should have bounced the car to check the shocks).
As for an AA check in hindsight great idea in practice not possible - as with anything in life sometimes you have to take a punt and take someones word for it - they wanted to sell there and then which should have rung alarm bells and whilst I know it's the oldest trick in the book a couple of calls about it came in when I was there. Plus I needed to buy a car desperately as I'd been without wheels for weeks.
Anyway it seems there's a tad too much emotion flying around in this forum so I think I'll leave the post parked here....
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff