'vettes versus bikes...
Discussion
All,
I had a conversation with Brett on the subject of corvettes (ZR1s in this instance) versus bikes some time back, and he sort of said that anything up to 750cc is fair enough game...
Following a drink-fuelled argument last night that "there's no way the Corvette is quicker than a bike", (and the normal "they're not very good cars" undercurent you get) I'm trying to find out...
From my experience, in a straight line (twisties obviously favour 4 wheels), at 110mph+, the ZR1 can pull away from some, and keep up with other bikes... Some of course are way faster...
Anybody else had fun surprising bikes?
Steve
I had a conversation with Brett on the subject of corvettes (ZR1s in this instance) versus bikes some time back, and he sort of said that anything up to 750cc is fair enough game...
Following a drink-fuelled argument last night that "there's no way the Corvette is quicker than a bike", (and the normal "they're not very good cars" undercurent you get) I'm trying to find out...
From my experience, in a straight line (twisties obviously favour 4 wheels), at 110mph+, the ZR1 can pull away from some, and keep up with other bikes... Some of course are way faster...
Anybody else had fun surprising bikes?
Steve
Heavily tuned performance cars would beat stock superbikes in a straight line. And I mean heavily tuned - like Vipers, Vettes, GT-Rs, Supras pushing 900bhp. Read the VCA or Supraforums and you will see vids of this. The Power-to-Weight ratio on a bike is just insane, it takes a lot for a car to make up for that. But a tuned bike against a heavily tuned Vette/Viper would favour the bike (in a straight line).
>> Edited by z064life on Tuesday 23 December 15:26
>> Edited by z064life on Tuesday 23 December 15:30
>> Edited by z064life on Tuesday 23 December 15:26
>> Edited by z064life on Tuesday 23 December 15:30
Steve - On the very few occassions I've had to drive my car I've had a little fun with bikes at speed. It's my belief that they're the only machines in sufficient numbers to come across with any frequency that have got anything for us. But I would have said only the 750's (maybe 600's) and up have anything and then we're talking.
I was giving some on an empty bit of dual carriageway near Staines, I was clear behind when I went in to it and knew I only had to worry about what was in front. So give it some I did, big grins and adrenalin overdose. I was still in it (can't remember speed) when the known traffic lights were about to come into sight. Just before I got out of it I looked in the mirror, you guessed it... bike. Right on my tail with his skid lid on his tank. His mate was some way behind.
He was still right behind me when I was near my brake point so I had to slow down more carefully lest he ran into me. We pulled up at the lights, thumbs up all round, they went their way and I, mine. Thought afterwards, he couldn't get around me, not while I was accelerating anyway. Don't remember the bikes, specifically, they were I would say at least 750 and they were the sports type.
I was giving some on an empty bit of dual carriageway near Staines, I was clear behind when I went in to it and knew I only had to worry about what was in front. So give it some I did, big grins and adrenalin overdose. I was still in it (can't remember speed) when the known traffic lights were about to come into sight. Just before I got out of it I looked in the mirror, you guessed it... bike. Right on my tail with his skid lid on his tank. His mate was some way behind.
He was still right behind me when I was near my brake point so I had to slow down more carefully lest he ran into me. We pulled up at the lights, thumbs up all round, they went their way and I, mine. Thought afterwards, he couldn't get around me, not while I was accelerating anyway. Don't remember the bikes, specifically, they were I would say at least 750 and they were the sports type.
z064life: I'd agree with your summing up, basically the power/weight ratio has to always be in favour of bikes unless we get into funny cars...
JT: good to hear you've been having fun! Likewise, on a stretch near Porstmouth, was behind a bike, I don't know what it was, but at 110+ he couldn't leave me standing... of course at that sort of speed, you have to keep a bit of distance, but I think I fairly kept up with him until traffic got in our way about 135/140ish...
So, I guess the to**er who I was arguing with last night (who, to put it into perspective, thinks his Golf GTi is a fast car
) can be politely cast aside...
And let's face it: ain't it nice to be in a forum where we're wondering about how we fare against bikes, not other cars!
JT: good to hear you've been having fun! Likewise, on a stretch near Porstmouth, was behind a bike, I don't know what it was, but at 110+ he couldn't leave me standing... of course at that sort of speed, you have to keep a bit of distance, but I think I fairly kept up with him until traffic got in our way about 135/140ish...
So, I guess the to**er who I was arguing with last night (who, to put it into perspective, thinks his Golf GTi is a fast car
) can be politely cast aside... And let's face it: ain't it nice to be in a forum where we're wondering about how we fare against bikes, not other cars!
Follow up to my earlier post about cars vs bikes...
Did some research, and the corvette (never mind ZR1) should be quicker than most bikes after 140mph...
Looking at the following:
www.mcnews.com/mcnews/articles/TestBike-Index1-2001.pdf
www.mcnews.com/mcnews/articles/TestBike-Index2-2001.pdf
I'm surprised just how many bikes top end isn't that large, compared with a stock vette's 165-170, and ZR1's 185... Seems like, as I said, 130+ and the ZR1 should be pretty useful against most bikes, barring the real superbikes in the lineup...
Did some research, and the corvette (never mind ZR1) should be quicker than most bikes after 140mph...
Looking at the following:
www.mcnews.com/mcnews/articles/TestBike-Index1-2001.pdf
www.mcnews.com/mcnews/articles/TestBike-Index2-2001.pdf
I'm surprised just how many bikes top end isn't that large, compared with a stock vette's 165-170, and ZR1's 185... Seems like, as I said, 130+ and the ZR1 should be pretty useful against most bikes, barring the real superbikes in the lineup...
Performance car and its sister magazine performance bike often do a joint article of bike vs car. The last time round they had various high performance cars and bikes. They do the usual tests, straight line, stopping (which the bikes win with ease) and track times etc. As per the norm the only car that gave the bikes any serious competition was a caterham 7. Of course it didnt have the top end but it has a really good power to weight ratio for a car.
Trap times for a my Suzuki GSXR - top end 186mph(it's restricted to that), a quarter in 10.42@146mph
Other bikes Fireblade 171mph, 10.74@138mph. An R1 170mph 10.96@134mph. A Kawasaki ZX9R 174mph, 10.67@136mph. Thes figures are from a Superbike mag track test. All bikes had 3 runs, Ive quoted the best.
As for my GSXR, the ZR1 is quick but its not a touch on the bike. Out of the box my bike weighs in at 170kg and has 165BHP. It has enough power to lift the front wheel on the throtle in 1st, 2nd, 3rd (thats well over 100)gear and with the clutch 4th gear as well. It can pull enough in 1st gear to get you a ban.
Given the choice of driving the ZR1 at its top end or the bike (which I have - on a track, of course;-) ) I would opt for the bike every time. The bike is a pig to ride under the ton. Once over that everything is much better, the air pressure holds the weight of the rider's wrists and the bike is really well planted, (Unlike a car on the upwards side of 160) add to that its nibleness and stopping power and of course the much shorter amount of time it takes to get to those speeds than a car make it much more practical.
If you are going to play with any bike, stick to a 600 or less :-). Some 750's would be posible but not until you are rolling at 50-60 mph.
Trap times for a my Suzuki GSXR - top end 186mph(it's restricted to that), a quarter in 10.42@146mph
Other bikes Fireblade 171mph, 10.74@138mph. An R1 170mph 10.96@134mph. A Kawasaki ZX9R 174mph, 10.67@136mph. Thes figures are from a Superbike mag track test. All bikes had 3 runs, Ive quoted the best.
As for my GSXR, the ZR1 is quick but its not a touch on the bike. Out of the box my bike weighs in at 170kg and has 165BHP. It has enough power to lift the front wheel on the throtle in 1st, 2nd, 3rd (thats well over 100)gear and with the clutch 4th gear as well. It can pull enough in 1st gear to get you a ban.
Given the choice of driving the ZR1 at its top end or the bike (which I have - on a track, of course;-) ) I would opt for the bike every time. The bike is a pig to ride under the ton. Once over that everything is much better, the air pressure holds the weight of the rider's wrists and the bike is really well planted, (Unlike a car on the upwards side of 160) add to that its nibleness and stopping power and of course the much shorter amount of time it takes to get to those speeds than a car make it much more practical.
If you are going to play with any bike, stick to a 600 or less :-). Some 750's would be posible but not until you are rolling at 50-60 mph.
I'd agree that 600's are fun to play with but unless seriously modified on an open road they'll lose. From standstill and in traffic it's quite a different matter. Then again most of us car drivers don't have to routinely replace their tyres at 3,000 miles. It might be fairer to test current road bikes against cars equipped with trackday tyres as the softer compunds used in bike tyres must give them a significant advantage.
3000 miles ? That must be a hard-wearing compound.
My Z can level peg with a mates GSXR 600 from a standstill but only just and that is moded. Throw in some bends and a roundabout and it would be game over for me. Some of the latest 600's are quicker than the 750's that were around just a couple of years ago. Most people that ride bikes these days have them as a fashion item and dont have a clue (ALL THE GEAR AND NO IDEA), in these cases you will beat them no matter what they ride.
My Z can level peg with a mates GSXR 600 from a standstill but only just and that is moded. Throw in some bends and a roundabout and it would be game over for me. Some of the latest 600's are quicker than the 750's that were around just a couple of years ago. Most people that ride bikes these days have them as a fashion item and dont have a clue (ALL THE GEAR AND NO IDEA), in these cases you will beat them no matter what they ride.
I'm surprised the bike didn't get away from you at first and then get hauled in. If you are both on your bikes are you faster than he is ? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is yes. The bike should have been well away at the start simply due to better power to weight ratio - if the rider can hang on, get enough traction, knows how best to launch the bike, isn't afraid of bending his toy, etc.
Here's some more figures
0-140mph - GSXR 9.20 secs, Radical SR3(remember Top Gear) 19.91 secs, Porsche 911GT3 18.1 secs, BMW M3 25.9 secs.
A Kawasaki 636 (600) runs the quarter in 11.6@127mph with a top end of 166.
Superbike are running a challenge at the moment. They are pitching a BSB Rizla Suzuki race replica GSXR1000 against any car as long as its road legal. So far in the line up is Jay Kay's Enzo, a Pagani Zonda, a Murcielago, 911 turbo, McLaren F1 and Audi RS6.
0-140mph - GSXR 9.20 secs, Radical SR3(remember Top Gear) 19.91 secs, Porsche 911GT3 18.1 secs, BMW M3 25.9 secs.
A Kawasaki 636 (600) runs the quarter in 11.6@127mph with a top end of 166.
Superbike are running a challenge at the moment. They are pitching a BSB Rizla Suzuki race replica GSXR1000 against any car as long as its road legal. So far in the line up is Jay Kay's Enzo, a Pagani Zonda, a Murcielago, 911 turbo, McLaren F1 and Audi RS6.
te51cle said:
I'm surprised the bike didn't get away from you at first and then get hauled in. If you are both on your bikes are you faster than he is ? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is yes. The bike should have been well away at the start simply due to better power to weight ratio - if the rider can hang on, get enough traction, knows how best to launch the bike, isn't afraid of bending his toy, etc.
te51cle said:
I'm surprised the bike didn't get away from you at first and then get hauled in. If you are both on your bikes are you faster than he is ? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is yes. The bike should have been well away at the start simply due to better power to weight ratio - if the rider can hang on, get enough traction, knows how best to launch the bike, isn't afraid of bending his toy, etc.
It wont always work like that. Mine is a 1000, his a 600 so yes i am the quicker. 600's make all their power high up the rev range. His was heavily modified so the power was even higher up the range (great for track days and racing but not for on the street). That coupled with different gearing enabled me to stay nearly with him up to around 30-40mph by which time I knew it was just a matter of time as I had the higher top end.
Remember as well that the power to weight ratio on a 600 is not as much of an advantage as it is on a bigger more powerful (and not much heavier) bike when the riders own body weight is added to the bike. I had a GSXR 600 as a loan bike while mine was being serviced - gutless -I had to use the gearbox to get anywhere - I must be getting lazy.
I was pleasantly surprised when I found out on the track days this year that I could easily pull away from the Radicals on the straights. Braking and cornering was another story of course ! Another thing to note was that the 'vette was faster than all but the most track oriented of the Caterhams & Elises round the higher speed bends. For example at Oulton Park I could go round Druids at about 80mph whereas the Lotus clones were going 10mph slower, and a Mitsubishi 3000 GT was all over the place at just 60 ! At Donington I was taking the Craner curves in the mid 90s but I think a little more was possible for the car if not for me !
Fastest speed I achieved was 140 just before braking on the back straight at Snetterton. At Brands it was 120 on Pilgrims Drop before I felt I needed to brake for Hawthorn. Timing gear wasn't allowed so I have no idea what my lap time was anywhere.
Have you something to compare with this from your track days on the bike ?
Fastest speed I achieved was 140 just before braking on the back straight at Snetterton. At Brands it was 120 on Pilgrims Drop before I felt I needed to brake for Hawthorn. Timing gear wasn't allowed so I have no idea what my lap time was anywhere.
Have you something to compare with this from your track days on the bike ?
Gixer said:
I also wonder how much difference there is between my car and a C5 on the track. I guess Nigel is the one that can answer that.
I hope you mean your car and a Z06 ! The 3000 GT (not one of the newer GTOs) surprised me too, he was all over the shop. Maybe he'd got his suspension setup wrong, unfortunately I couldn't find him in the paddock afterwards to ask.
Gixer said:
Are they 4 wheel steer ? My mates 4 wheel steer/drive 300ZX needs new bushes and all sorts. he says you can feel the rear end moving around when cornering at modest speed.
Yeah, 3000GTs are 4 wheel steer (and 4WD, for that matter). 3000GTs also weigh a hell of a lot - 1800/1900kgs.
300ZX TT - I think you mean the Skyline GT-R - that was 4WD and 4WS, the 300ZX TT was not.
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