Discussion
Hey,
I'm currently building a 1380 A+ for me mini. Was wondering if anyone had fitted a ST544 cam.
The engine spec so far is a 1380 with stage 3 head alloy inlet with a single 1.75 SU. I intend to fit twin carbs and roller rockers at a later date thats why i've gone for a stage three head. What sort of engine characteristics can i expect to get with a 544 and standard valve gear? Any ideas will be appreciated
Jamie
I'm currently building a 1380 A+ for me mini. Was wondering if anyone had fitted a ST544 cam.
The engine spec so far is a 1380 with stage 3 head alloy inlet with a single 1.75 SU. I intend to fit twin carbs and roller rockers at a later date thats why i've gone for a stage three head. What sort of engine characteristics can i expect to get with a 544 and standard valve gear? Any ideas will be appreciated
Jamie
Hi Jamie,
The 544 was the demon 1960's rally cam and I've used 544's in 1275 Cooper 'S's over the years.
However, the profiles are a bit dated now and the Megadyne 286 is altogether a much better proposition. It's what I usually use in my rally cars these days, although it's a bit 'lumpy' for normal road use.
I'm told the new SW5 and SW10 are also excellent and that for a road-going car with standard gear ratios and a highish (say 3.44) diff ratio then the SW5 is great.
I can't seem to get any valve timing or lift figures for the SW5 & SW10, so it's a bit difficult to make a judgement and until I can I shall stick with the 286.
I would suggest that for your engine you think about a Megadyne 276. It still gives a lot of top end power, up to about 6200, but compared to the 286 or 544 the power comes in about 400 rpm sooner.
If you intend to fit a s/c c/r gearbox the use of a hot cam will mean that you will need a low final drive to take care of the high first gear and that will seriously curtail your cruising speed and effective top speed. For example, my 1293cc rally car with a 286 cam has a s/c c/r box with a 3.9 diff and max cruise at 4200 rpm is only about 60mph on 10" wheels.
To a large extent it depends on what you intend to use the car for. If it's just a road car, rather than an out-and-out competition car you should consider a Megadyne 266 cam, as that's nice and tractable from about 2400 rpm up to around 6000.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
The 544 was the demon 1960's rally cam and I've used 544's in 1275 Cooper 'S's over the years.
However, the profiles are a bit dated now and the Megadyne 286 is altogether a much better proposition. It's what I usually use in my rally cars these days, although it's a bit 'lumpy' for normal road use.
I'm told the new SW5 and SW10 are also excellent and that for a road-going car with standard gear ratios and a highish (say 3.44) diff ratio then the SW5 is great.
I can't seem to get any valve timing or lift figures for the SW5 & SW10, so it's a bit difficult to make a judgement and until I can I shall stick with the 286.
I would suggest that for your engine you think about a Megadyne 276. It still gives a lot of top end power, up to about 6200, but compared to the 286 or 544 the power comes in about 400 rpm sooner.
If you intend to fit a s/c c/r gearbox the use of a hot cam will mean that you will need a low final drive to take care of the high first gear and that will seriously curtail your cruising speed and effective top speed. For example, my 1293cc rally car with a 286 cam has a s/c c/r box with a 3.9 diff and max cruise at 4200 rpm is only about 60mph on 10" wheels.
To a large extent it depends on what you intend to use the car for. If it's just a road car, rather than an out-and-out competition car you should consider a Megadyne 266 cam, as that's nice and tractable from about 2400 rpm up to around 6000.
Let me know if I can be of any further help.
Is an ST544 cam one and the same as the original 544 ?
If so where did the ST come from ?....what does it mean ?
Anyway, I ran a 544 years ago in a 1380 and it was the DD's...got 83 @ the wheels on Aldon's dyno...doesn't sound much these days but its plenty enough for a road car.
That was with a Janspeed stg 1 head and rockers with offset bushes, std drops, S ratio std gears and a 3.9 diff....which with 12" wheels gives u 96 mph @ 6000...it would have gone further but I never did....and I never held foot to the floor in 2nd or 3rd either....probably would have revved itself to pieces !!!
That said I now run a 286 but didn't get that much more....possibly coz I timed in in too early to allow for things to wear in....going for 105 this time around....we'll see.
P.S. I have a brand new unused 544 and 3 sets of rockers with offset bushes up for grabbs amongst other things....see "garage sale" in the classifieds....plug plug plug....slap !....ouch....yes alright....sorry Ted.
If so where did the ST come from ?....what does it mean ?
Anyway, I ran a 544 years ago in a 1380 and it was the DD's...got 83 @ the wheels on Aldon's dyno...doesn't sound much these days but its plenty enough for a road car.
That was with a Janspeed stg 1 head and rockers with offset bushes, std drops, S ratio std gears and a 3.9 diff....which with 12" wheels gives u 96 mph @ 6000...it would have gone further but I never did....and I never held foot to the floor in 2nd or 3rd either....probably would have revved itself to pieces !!!
That said I now run a 286 but didn't get that much more....possibly coz I timed in in too early to allow for things to wear in....going for 105 this time around....we'll see.
P.S. I have a brand new unused 544 and 3 sets of rockers with offset bushes up for grabbs amongst other things....see "garage sale" in the classifieds....plug plug plug....slap !....ouch....yes alright....sorry Ted.
My 1293 Cooper 'S' Historic rally car with 286, 11.1 to 1 c.r, really good head, 3.9 diff, LCB, 2 x 1.5" H4's, RC40 twin-box, Karl Schmitt pistons, light flywheel and all the other usual rally bits gives about 105 bhp at the flywheel at 6100 rpm. It's state of tune makes it very lumpy on the road.
Back in the 1980s I used to run a 1275GT with the following spec:
1293cc
HIF44
MG Inlet
Maniflow LCB
Ported head with standard GT valves
Piper 270
Built it myself at the ripe old age of nineteen.
It was really torquey, but revved out well. Best of all, it was incredibly smooth, not at all lumpy and was driven flat out for three years. It was still as good as new when the car was sold on.
The dyno suggested 80hp, which felt about right.
The cam was an inspired choice, as I went into the shop to buy a Piper 285, but was talked out of it by the man with The Knowledge.
As a road cam, I recon the 270 still takes some beating as the power is just where you need it.
Dammit, I really want another Mini.
Cheers
Pat
1293cc
HIF44
MG Inlet
Maniflow LCB
Ported head with standard GT valves
Piper 270
Built it myself at the ripe old age of nineteen.
It was really torquey, but revved out well. Best of all, it was incredibly smooth, not at all lumpy and was driven flat out for three years. It was still as good as new when the car was sold on.
The dyno suggested 80hp, which felt about right.
The cam was an inspired choice, as I went into the shop to buy a Piper 285, but was talked out of it by the man with The Knowledge.
As a road cam, I recon the 270 still takes some beating as the power is just where you need it.
Dammit, I really want another Mini.
Cheers
Pat
I always time my 286 in at 2 degrees advanced from recommended as that allows for the high initial chain stretch during the first 500+ miles.
Interesting, I've just had a problem never before encountered in over 43 years of messing about with Minis. After the last rally, (when I hit a closed gate!), I had a knocking noise from the front end of the engine, i.e. the water pump end. Last Tuesday I took the complete engine and box out in order to find the knock which I thought was cam or cam follower related. What it was was a fatigue fracture of the engine front plate - the thick steel plate to which the timing cover bolts. The protrusion on the plate onto which the alternator bottom adjustment plate bolts had fractured locally and I think the knock was the broken bit hitting the plate at low revs, as the knock went off when the revs went up. You learn something new all the time. So, whilst the engine is out I shall fit a new cam, as the old one, which still looks quite good, has done 24 rallies and has been given a lot of stick. I'll obviously change the followers and timing chain.
Nice little job for the New Year.
Interesting, I've just had a problem never before encountered in over 43 years of messing about with Minis. After the last rally, (when I hit a closed gate!), I had a knocking noise from the front end of the engine, i.e. the water pump end. Last Tuesday I took the complete engine and box out in order to find the knock which I thought was cam or cam follower related. What it was was a fatigue fracture of the engine front plate - the thick steel plate to which the timing cover bolts. The protrusion on the plate onto which the alternator bottom adjustment plate bolts had fractured locally and I think the knock was the broken bit hitting the plate at low revs, as the knock went off when the revs went up. You learn something new all the time. So, whilst the engine is out I shall fit a new cam, as the old one, which still looks quite good, has done 24 rallies and has been given a lot of stick. I'll obviously change the followers and timing chain.
Nice little job for the New Year.
Cooperman said:
So, whilst the engine is out I shall fit a new cam, as the old one, which still looks quite good, has done 24 rallies and has been given a lot of stick. I'll obviously change the followers and timing chain.
Nice little job for the New Year.
Tempted to try something different? The Swiftune SW10/SW22 perhaps or the 286 Scatter?
Have you got any timing and lift figures for these SW cams? I keep hearing good things about them, but have seen no figures as yet and it is difficult to decide without 'the numbers'. I don't want to try something new without being happy that it will do the job.
I've always liked the 286 and have achieved some good rally results using it, but a bit more mid-range without any loss of top-end would be good (Iguess that is looking for too much really!).
I've always liked the 286 and have achieved some good rally results using it, but a bit more mid-range without any loss of top-end would be good (Iguess that is looking for too much really!).
Having looked at the Swiftune website I think that the SW series has an advantage in emmissions, but not in terms of real power or torque.
I'm off to pick up a new 286 tomorrow as with the excellent results I've always had by using that cam I figure its a case of "better the devil you know....". I shall time it in at 2 deg advanced from recommended (106 deg), but I always allow +/-1 deg, so the 105 fig quoted will be fine.
I'm going back to Hardy-spicer couplings, as the rubber couplings hit the big-bore LCB and I don't like the smell of burning rubber - well, not on my Cooper, that is!
In future I'm going to fit the engine onto the box before installing the front plate, timing gears and chain, as you can then see that the front main bearing oil seal is properly located. I once had a seal move slightly and ended up doing a rally in Belgium with a lot of oil coming out of the front seal. It's amazing, a very small gap lets out so much oil. It's taken me nearly 43 years to learn this! You never stop learning with a Mini.
I'm off to pick up a new 286 tomorrow as with the excellent results I've always had by using that cam I figure its a case of "better the devil you know....". I shall time it in at 2 deg advanced from recommended (106 deg), but I always allow +/-1 deg, so the 105 fig quoted will be fine.
I'm going back to Hardy-spicer couplings, as the rubber couplings hit the big-bore LCB and I don't like the smell of burning rubber - well, not on my Cooper, that is!
In future I'm going to fit the engine onto the box before installing the front plate, timing gears and chain, as you can then see that the front main bearing oil seal is properly located. I once had a seal move slightly and ended up doing a rally in Belgium with a lot of oil coming out of the front seal. It's amazing, a very small gap lets out so much oil. It's taken me nearly 43 years to learn this! You never stop learning with a Mini.
No, I've tried neither.
I did build an engine for someone else with a Piper 270 and it gave super mid-range and was great. I've also tried a 276 in an engine I built for a car to do the Historic Monte Carlo rallye and it gave 93 bhp at about 5750 rpm.
I've just got my new 286 and will fit it later this week. Is the scatter pattern any better overall? perhaps I'll try one in my next engine.
I did build an engine for someone else with a Piper 270 and it gave super mid-range and was great. I've also tried a 276 in an engine I built for a car to do the Historic Monte Carlo rallye and it gave 93 bhp at about 5750 rpm.
I've just got my new 286 and will fit it later this week. Is the scatter pattern any better overall? perhaps I'll try one in my next engine.
When I initially built my 1380 I used a 286 with an HIF44 carb, 1.5 rockers and a stage 3 head. The car was very easy to drive in traffic and alot of fun when pushed up the rev range. On the rolling road it gave 119bhp at the flywheel with a standard box. I have still got the paperwork somewhere and will e-mail you the graph as soon as I can find it.
I run the 285 in my 1 litre, a bit hairy but I had the diff changed. Gives superb mid - top end performance right up to about 6500 and the car tails off by 7000. I have heard various thing about the scatters, some say they are a bit too wild for the road, where as others say they give much more power/torqque through the range. TBASE says that it does the latter and has a graph comparing the megadyne and the scatter.
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