Am I just being a little sensitive...
Discussion
I'd like to paint you all a little scenario for you all and gauge your feelings...
You take your pride and joy to your local dealer, because you know you have a slightly binding brake on one wheel, and then receive a call a couple of hours later informing you that you need to replace all brakes on every wheel at a total cost of £800. A month after a major service at the same place.
Horrified, you then take the car to another dealer for a second opinion. He sticks it up on a ramp, pulls the wheels off and shows you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the brakes on three wheels, and that (as you had suspected) the problem is nothing more than road crud causing a slightly binding caliper, solved by a clean up and one set of new pads. Total bill £145.
Imagine you then phone the first dealer to discuss the matter and have the phone banged down on you.
So you go home and write a carefully worded e-mail to the MD, who phones back to tell you that he stands by his staff and doesn't want to discuss the matter any further.
You are a professional writer and a member of the owners club.
Do you:
A) Phone the trading standards officer, the manufacturer and the local newspaper (and post a note on the forum section of your favourite website).
B) Wave your arms around alarmingly in a very Italian style and leave a horse's head on their doorstep.
C) As they suggest, shrug your shoulders, forget about it and take your car back to the original dealer next time regardless.
You take your pride and joy to your local dealer, because you know you have a slightly binding brake on one wheel, and then receive a call a couple of hours later informing you that you need to replace all brakes on every wheel at a total cost of £800. A month after a major service at the same place.
Horrified, you then take the car to another dealer for a second opinion. He sticks it up on a ramp, pulls the wheels off and shows you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the brakes on three wheels, and that (as you had suspected) the problem is nothing more than road crud causing a slightly binding caliper, solved by a clean up and one set of new pads. Total bill £145.
Imagine you then phone the first dealer to discuss the matter and have the phone banged down on you.
So you go home and write a carefully worded e-mail to the MD, who phones back to tell you that he stands by his staff and doesn't want to discuss the matter any further.
You are a professional writer and a member of the owners club.
Do you:
A) Phone the trading standards officer, the manufacturer and the local newspaper (and post a note on the forum section of your favourite website).
B) Wave your arms around alarmingly in a very Italian style and leave a horse's head on their doorstep.
C) As they suggest, shrug your shoulders, forget about it and take your car back to the original dealer next time regardless.
I'd certainly talk to the manufacturer. They will be aware that as the normal point of contact with the customer the dealer is the only measure you have of their customer service and they should be very concerned if you're being badly treated.
If not - then go for the horse's head. There are a number of currently active threads where you will be able to seek advice on how to get hold of one.
If not - then go for the horse's head. There are a number of currently active threads where you will be able to seek advice on how to get hold of one.
All three in varying measures.
Point out to the firm that you have a complaint. Explain it clearly.
Any reputable firm will want to seize the opportunity to boost their reputation by dealing with this.
If it is not sorted out (and you are not actually out of pocket here) walk away and let relevant parties know, but TAKE CARE: Be objective! But, if you really think that people are being ripped off go to Trading Standards et cetera.
(PetrolTed has some sound views on "Naming and Shaming"
which we will all respect - sometimes we disagree - but it's only fair to play by the rules!)
Once you've walked away, get your problem sorted out with someone you get on with and don't dwell on it.
But you don't have to go back, and I guess you won't be encouraging anyone else to go there.
ALSO: It's worth stopping and remembering that they are only human and might just be having a bad day, as we all do.
[Right, end of
!]
Point out to the firm that you have a complaint. Explain it clearly.
Any reputable firm will want to seize the opportunity to boost their reputation by dealing with this.
If it is not sorted out (and you are not actually out of pocket here) walk away and let relevant parties know, but TAKE CARE: Be objective! But, if you really think that people are being ripped off go to Trading Standards et cetera.
(PetrolTed has some sound views on "Naming and Shaming"
which we will all respect - sometimes we disagree - but it's only fair to play by the rules!) Once you've walked away, get your problem sorted out with someone you get on with and don't dwell on it.
But you don't have to go back, and I guess you won't be encouraging anyone else to go there.
ALSO: It's worth stopping and remembering that they are only human and might just be having a bad day, as we all do.
[Right, end of
!]I am an angry consumer 
- if I am dissatisfied with the service a company has given me, I make my feelings known to their big cheeses (I once petitioned the entire board at BSkyB because their telemarketers wouldn't stop phoning me up - they don't call anymore...
I have also extracted refunds from myriad companies who have failed to meet my expectations as a customer).
It really depends how offended you are, and what your objective is - at the end of the day you've avoided a shafting through your own good sense, so it's not like you've got a refund to chase.
It also depends on whether it would be sensible to burn your bridges with the dealership - if I were going to engage in a "name & shame" I'd make bloody sure I wasn't going to have to crawl back there in 6 months time for service or repair.
- if I am dissatisfied with the service a company has given me, I make my feelings known to their big cheeses (I once petitioned the entire board at BSkyB because their telemarketers wouldn't stop phoning me up - they don't call anymore... I have also extracted refunds from myriad companies who have failed to meet my expectations as a customer). It really depends how offended you are, and what your objective is - at the end of the day you've avoided a shafting through your own good sense, so it's not like you've got a refund to chase.
It also depends on whether it would be sensible to burn your bridges with the dealership - if I were going to engage in a "name & shame" I'd make bloody sure I wasn't going to have to crawl back there in 6 months time for service or repair.
Thats OUTRAGEOUS! Things like that make my blood boil. Imagine if you had gone along with it? you would be 800 squid poorer (OK 650 nett) and no doubt you would have been on this site telling us all about another TVR reliability sob story. Bad for TVR, Bad for residual values etc.
Ok, so Ted doesn't like us to name and shame and we must respect him cos it's his site, but for my money you should tell everyone you can in anyway you can (other than via this site) and tell them everything. In fact, please e mail me off line with the details so that I can also avoid this money grabbing dishonest bunch of s**ts and let my friends know as well.
This kind of thing really needs to be stamped on HARD.
Rant over
Now I am calm again, hello flowers, hello trees.
andy 400se
Ok, so Ted doesn't like us to name and shame and we must respect him cos it's his site, but for my money you should tell everyone you can in anyway you can (other than via this site) and tell them everything. In fact, please e mail me off line with the details so that I can also avoid this money grabbing dishonest bunch of s**ts and let my friends know as well.
This kind of thing really needs to be stamped on HARD.
Rant over
Now I am calm again, hello flowers, hello trees.
andy 400se
Anyone see the programme on TV the other week? About dodgy dealers - including certain main dealer Fiat / Alfa ones!!!! Cant remember the name at the moment, but it was on TV so it is in the public domain...
They tried it out with a 7 year old Fiat Punto and was ripped blind to the tune of £1K! And that is the main dealer.... It does happen and unfortunately it is usually supported to the top (i.e. MD instigates the process).
There are so many stories about this type of activity that is scares me. One would have thought that with more new cars being registered than ever, longer lasting cars in general and higher quality being used throughout - that dealers (main ones in particular) would want to grasp the opportunity and seek to increase customer loyalty and further improve their company / brand / profitability.... Do I live in a dream world...
Seeing as you have a good example I would also go for A. Take it as far as you can - these people cannot be allowed to do this. We are OK as the majority of PH members have a certain level of technical knowledge.... Think about all of the rest of the general public that just dont know about these things. They take the "advice" blindly and low-and-behold they are ripped off....
Do it, you know you want to...
Cheers,
Paul
They tried it out with a 7 year old Fiat Punto and was ripped blind to the tune of £1K! And that is the main dealer.... It does happen and unfortunately it is usually supported to the top (i.e. MD instigates the process).
There are so many stories about this type of activity that is scares me. One would have thought that with more new cars being registered than ever, longer lasting cars in general and higher quality being used throughout - that dealers (main ones in particular) would want to grasp the opportunity and seek to increase customer loyalty and further improve their company / brand / profitability.... Do I live in a dream world...
Seeing as you have a good example I would also go for A. Take it as far as you can - these people cannot be allowed to do this. We are OK as the majority of PH members have a certain level of technical knowledge.... Think about all of the rest of the general public that just dont know about these things. They take the "advice" blindly and low-and-behold they are ripped off....
Do it, you know you want to...
Cheers,
Paul
I saw the TV prog about the Alfa/Fiat dealer (it's a large 'plate glass' type in Croydon).
When I was looking for a 156 Sportwagen V6 last year these muppets;1, Ignored a request via the Alfa website for details & a test drive. 2,left me "waiting for a salesman to be available" for 1/4 of an hour whilst they all sat around drinking coffee - without offering me one. 3,Ignored me completely when I went back a 2nd time. As I walked out yet again I went past the open door of the service dept, put me off for good.
The previous dealership in Croydon (Kinghams) were excellent in the past when I needed parts/advice - they lost their franchise to the new lot when alfa decided to move upmarket.
When I was looking for a 156 Sportwagen V6 last year these muppets;1, Ignored a request via the Alfa website for details & a test drive. 2,left me "waiting for a salesman to be available" for 1/4 of an hour whilst they all sat around drinking coffee - without offering me one. 3,Ignored me completely when I went back a 2nd time. As I walked out yet again I went past the open door of the service dept, put me off for good.
The previous dealership in Croydon (Kinghams) were excellent in the past when I needed parts/advice - they lost their franchise to the new lot when alfa decided to move upmarket.
I'm getting more and more wound up about this. I attach a copy of the letter I sent to their customer sevices department and a copy of a response I've just received from their Director. The local newspaper are on the case and both Alfa Romeo Customer Services and Trading Standards have indicated that they have had similar recent complaints.
Dear X,
I'm sorry to have to write to you in unhappy circumstances.
I have an Alfa Romeo 156 TS (X689 SBW) which I bought from you a year ago - it was previously your demo model. I have a history of driving Alfas, and am a member of the owners club.
Since buying the car I have had it maintained exclusively by yourselves. This has not been a satisfactory experience at all, but events that took place today are absolutely astonishing.
First of all some history. The car had a major (24,000 mile) service with yourselves recently. When I booked it in I asked for the CD/radio to be attended to, as it wasn't functioning properly. This wasn't done. When I collected the car I was told that there was no oil in it. I know for a fact that this is untrue - I check the oil religiously every week and had checked it days before the service - at which point it was at the optimum level. Since the service, the oil level hasn't moved a millimetre.
I booked the car in for today after complaining that the brakes weren't functioning properly, and asked for the radio to be attended to. First of all, I was surprised that nobody even took a cursory look at the car when I booked it in almost two weeks ago. Surely if a customer complains of a braking problem, this should be treated as a priority matter and a mechanic should have inspected the vehicle before allowing it to leave?
I dropped the car off this morning, and then was called back by your service manager a couple of hours later, who informed me that all the brake discs and pads would need replacing, at a total cost of approximately £800. I was immediately suspicious - a major service was undertaken just six weeks ago - if such major work was required, surely it would have been picked up at this point? The car has only done approximately 27,000 miles.
I decided to seek a second opinion and took the car to SGT. They took the wheels off and found that all the discs are in perfect condition, and that the only problem was a slightly binding pad on the rear offside wheel. They rectified this on the spot for a total cost of £145.
I telephoned your service manager back to inform him of this and he hung up the phone on me. As you can imagine, this really infuriated me. As a consequence I have now informed Alfa Romeo customer care, Buckinghamshire Trading Standards and the Bucks Free Press of events. Buckinghamshire Trading Standards informed me that this is not the first similar complaint they have received about your workshop in recent weeks - In all probability you probably aren't even aware of this.
Alfa Romeo have promised to investigate and will be taking statements from you and from SGT.
I would be very interested to hear your comments about this chain of events. I believe that X should take on responsibility for the £145 bill - if the service had been carried out satisfactorily, this cost would not have been incurred. I also believe I deserve, at the very least, an apology for the shoddy treatment I have endured and the rudeness of your service manager.
I have copied this letter to my legal advisor. If none of these things are forthcoming, I shall be making a formal claim, not just for the £145, but also for the time I have wasted today due to your company's shortcomings. As a journalist, I would also feel it my responsibility to inform other likely customers of this chain of events.
I am sure that you will understand that, whatever the outcome, I shall not be using your company again in the future. I have no confidence in your service levels whatsoever and am very concerned that the recent major service may not have been carried out satisfactorily at all. I will be having the car inspected by SGT next week to see if, in their opinion, other work has been carried out to a satisfactory standard.
Yours sincerely
Malcolm Cupis
Managing Director
Shipham Communications Ltd
> Dear Mr Cupis
>
> Further to your email of yesterday's date to X and our
> conversation today I am just writing to conclude the matter.
>
> As we agreed, the decision to change the brakes was in our opinion the
> right one but it was your decision, and you elected not to do so and had
> pads fitted at Messrs SGT.
>
> I am sure you will keep an eye on the brake disc wear until the next
> service and I trust everything will be satisfactory then.
>
> I am sorry you had cause to complain in the first place but I am sure now
> you understand our logic.
>
> Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
>
Dear X,
I'm sorry to have to write to you in unhappy circumstances.
I have an Alfa Romeo 156 TS (X689 SBW) which I bought from you a year ago - it was previously your demo model. I have a history of driving Alfas, and am a member of the owners club.
Since buying the car I have had it maintained exclusively by yourselves. This has not been a satisfactory experience at all, but events that took place today are absolutely astonishing.
First of all some history. The car had a major (24,000 mile) service with yourselves recently. When I booked it in I asked for the CD/radio to be attended to, as it wasn't functioning properly. This wasn't done. When I collected the car I was told that there was no oil in it. I know for a fact that this is untrue - I check the oil religiously every week and had checked it days before the service - at which point it was at the optimum level. Since the service, the oil level hasn't moved a millimetre.
I booked the car in for today after complaining that the brakes weren't functioning properly, and asked for the radio to be attended to. First of all, I was surprised that nobody even took a cursory look at the car when I booked it in almost two weeks ago. Surely if a customer complains of a braking problem, this should be treated as a priority matter and a mechanic should have inspected the vehicle before allowing it to leave?
I dropped the car off this morning, and then was called back by your service manager a couple of hours later, who informed me that all the brake discs and pads would need replacing, at a total cost of approximately £800. I was immediately suspicious - a major service was undertaken just six weeks ago - if such major work was required, surely it would have been picked up at this point? The car has only done approximately 27,000 miles.
I decided to seek a second opinion and took the car to SGT. They took the wheels off and found that all the discs are in perfect condition, and that the only problem was a slightly binding pad on the rear offside wheel. They rectified this on the spot for a total cost of £145.
I telephoned your service manager back to inform him of this and he hung up the phone on me. As you can imagine, this really infuriated me. As a consequence I have now informed Alfa Romeo customer care, Buckinghamshire Trading Standards and the Bucks Free Press of events. Buckinghamshire Trading Standards informed me that this is not the first similar complaint they have received about your workshop in recent weeks - In all probability you probably aren't even aware of this.
Alfa Romeo have promised to investigate and will be taking statements from you and from SGT.
I would be very interested to hear your comments about this chain of events. I believe that X should take on responsibility for the £145 bill - if the service had been carried out satisfactorily, this cost would not have been incurred. I also believe I deserve, at the very least, an apology for the shoddy treatment I have endured and the rudeness of your service manager.
I have copied this letter to my legal advisor. If none of these things are forthcoming, I shall be making a formal claim, not just for the £145, but also for the time I have wasted today due to your company's shortcomings. As a journalist, I would also feel it my responsibility to inform other likely customers of this chain of events.
I am sure that you will understand that, whatever the outcome, I shall not be using your company again in the future. I have no confidence in your service levels whatsoever and am very concerned that the recent major service may not have been carried out satisfactorily at all. I will be having the car inspected by SGT next week to see if, in their opinion, other work has been carried out to a satisfactory standard.
Yours sincerely
Malcolm Cupis
Managing Director
Shipham Communications Ltd
> Dear Mr Cupis
>
> Further to your email of yesterday's date to X and our
> conversation today I am just writing to conclude the matter.
>
> As we agreed, the decision to change the brakes was in our opinion the
> right one but it was your decision, and you elected not to do so and had
> pads fitted at Messrs SGT.
>
> I am sure you will keep an eye on the brake disc wear until the next
> service and I trust everything will be satisfactory then.
>
> I am sorry you had cause to complain in the first place but I am sure now
> you understand our logic.
>
> Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
>
I eventually got a refund to the tune of several hundred pounds from an Alfa dealer some years back after they damaged the sump plug on my 164 and then tried to explain to me that it was due to grit in the sump.
I complained to Trading Standards, Alfa UK etc, but finally got joy after faxing the same letter to them every day for two months...
I complained to Trading Standards, Alfa UK etc, but finally got joy after faxing the same letter to them every day for two months...
If only I could write complaint letters like that - thinking of a sideline by any chance? Could run it on a percentage basis too....
Very good letter - All of the facts, the point in contention and next course of action. Nice... I do hope Alfa CS take it further too - this type of behaviour cannot (and shouldnt) be allowed to continue...
I my experience (prepares to duck) Audi and BMW dealers are in a different league. Strangely VW isnt - as they have tried ripping me off three times in the past. Sounds like the usual problem with cars - nice car shame about the dealers..
Cheers,
Paul
Very good letter - All of the facts, the point in contention and next course of action. Nice... I do hope Alfa CS take it further too - this type of behaviour cannot (and shouldnt) be allowed to continue...
I my experience (prepares to duck) Audi and BMW dealers are in a different league. Strangely VW isnt - as they have tried ripping me off three times in the past. Sounds like the usual problem with cars - nice car shame about the dealers..
Cheers,
Paul
Fiat & Alfa dealers are truly shocking. My better half's pride & joy - an Alfa 145 - hasn't seen a main dealer for years, because every aspect of the servicing was just so unpleasantly poor.
Incidentally, she also has problems with brake dust etc. causing the pads to bind. Perhaps it's something the all do?
>> Edited by DIGGA on Thursday 7th March 17:28
Incidentally, she also has problems with brake dust etc. causing the pads to bind. Perhaps it's something the all do?
>> Edited by DIGGA on Thursday 7th March 17:28
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