Europa vs Elise SC
Discussion
Hi folks,
Considering options for my next daily driver. I need a certain degree of practicality and comfort but also want to the car to feel special to own and drive. Current options include the Europa and an Elise SC touring. I like torque in my daily driver and don’t fancy the Elise 111R. Is there much between the Europa and Elise with touring pack in terms of comfort, practicality, etc?
All the best.
Martin.
Considering options for my next daily driver. I need a certain degree of practicality and comfort but also want to the car to feel special to own and drive. Current options include the Europa and an Elise SC touring. I like torque in my daily driver and don’t fancy the Elise 111R. Is there much between the Europa and Elise with touring pack in terms of comfort, practicality, etc?
All the best.
Martin.
Hi mate
You should speak to Ben at Castle Lotus, he will let you test drive both, he’s a very easy going chap with no sales pressure about him, he knows his Lotus too.
My thoughts on the Elise SC is that it's a 2nd car to another car if you can do it that way, a truly an amazing machine, I haven't driven the Europa but have seen one close up, it seems easier to get into and more civilized but I'm not keen on the shape. There are a lot of Elise drivers using them as a one and only everyday cars.
Good Luck.
You should speak to Ben at Castle Lotus, he will let you test drive both, he’s a very easy going chap with no sales pressure about him, he knows his Lotus too.
My thoughts on the Elise SC is that it's a 2nd car to another car if you can do it that way, a truly an amazing machine, I haven't driven the Europa but have seen one close up, it seems easier to get into and more civilized but I'm not keen on the shape. There are a lot of Elise drivers using them as a one and only everyday cars.
Good Luck.
Any Lotus is sure to put smiles on your face and give you that special feeling when you look at it and drive it, so you're fine on that front.
As regards practicality, both are pretty impractical really vs. a hatch or a *normal* car, but I guess it depends what you need from the car.
Both are similar in terms of ergonomics, the lower sills of the Europa are meant to enable easier access, but from my limited experience it's little different to an Elise... margins that are so minor that they are almost irrellevant to my mind.
Boot space in the Europa is a bit more, and is easier to access, but again, unless you need a certain size/shape to carry very specific stuff about with you, then both are fairly similar really IMHO.
Engine wise, honestly I've not driven either, but I know plenty of folks who have and have enjoyed both. Unless Lotus have changed the map on the Europa, it was generally acknowledged to be a bit of a Friday afternoon job (perhaps someone who has one will be able to wax lyrical about whether or not the 225 version sorted that?), but that can be sorted out by a remap I believe. It's a torquey engine, and of course you'll have to decide if you prefer The Vauxhall Turbo or SC to decide if that's better for you than the Toyota one in the Elise.
Build quality, I'd expect a newer SC to be better than a Europa, but that's only something you can check out when you go look at them.
Got some test drives booked?
As regards practicality, both are pretty impractical really vs. a hatch or a *normal* car, but I guess it depends what you need from the car.
Both are similar in terms of ergonomics, the lower sills of the Europa are meant to enable easier access, but from my limited experience it's little different to an Elise... margins that are so minor that they are almost irrellevant to my mind.
Boot space in the Europa is a bit more, and is easier to access, but again, unless you need a certain size/shape to carry very specific stuff about with you, then both are fairly similar really IMHO.
Engine wise, honestly I've not driven either, but I know plenty of folks who have and have enjoyed both. Unless Lotus have changed the map on the Europa, it was generally acknowledged to be a bit of a Friday afternoon job (perhaps someone who has one will be able to wax lyrical about whether or not the 225 version sorted that?), but that can be sorted out by a remap I believe. It's a torquey engine, and of course you'll have to decide if you prefer The Vauxhall Turbo or SC to decide if that's better for you than the Toyota one in the Elise.
Build quality, I'd expect a newer SC to be better than a Europa, but that's only something you can check out when you go look at them.
Got some test drives booked?
I think the SC is just superb for everyday usage,
if you are used to Elises!
Only drawbacks for everyday usage are :
1) you have to drive like a grandma in winter
2) of course cabin and luggage space are at premium.
I would not fancy an Europa - I just love roof off driving too much.
I love my SC ...
if you are used to Elises!
Only drawbacks for everyday usage are :
1) you have to drive like a grandma in winter
2) of course cabin and luggage space are at premium.
I would not fancy an Europa - I just love roof off driving too much.
I love my SC ...
edo111s said:
I think the SC is just superb for everyday usage,
if you are used to Elises!
Only drawbacks for everyday usage are :
1) you have to drive like a grandma in winter
2) of course cabin and luggage space are at premium.
I would not fancy an Europa - I just love roof off driving too much.
I love my SC ...
Switch to appropriate tyres and you don't have to drive like a grandma in winter, not at all. I don't, and I've got an Exige S which is meant to be even more aggressive. You can drive hard on the road in winter if you use the right tyres. A048Rs are *not* the right tyres in winter if you are used to Elises!
Only drawbacks for everyday usage are :
1) you have to drive like a grandma in winter
2) of course cabin and luggage space are at premium.
I would not fancy an Europa - I just love roof off driving too much.
I love my SC ...
If you want a convertible then the Elise is the only option. This option also comes with marginal year-round usability if the car is kept outside - Lotus have just about cracked the weatherproofing issue so a very recent car *should* be OK all year round with the soft top, but if it's kept outside and you're concerned about security, then you'll probably want a hard top. At which point the Europa (and the Exige, for that matter) become options.
As S Works said, the Europa is marginally easier to get in and out of, but the margins are damn-near irrelevant unless you are yourself very marginal getting into an Elise (height / weight / size / flexibility). At which point neither car may be ideal.
And as to luggage space... well the Exige has the smallest aperture of them all, and my girlfriend is astonished *every single time* we go shopping or away for a weekend in the Exige, since she simply cannot believe how much you can get in there. The boot is a *really* usable size, it's just the aperture to get things *into* the boot is the problem. With the Exige, things need to be small to get in but you can get a lot in. If you have specific requirements (bag sizes) then the Europa may make more sense due to the bigger aperture, but they've all got decent boot space (for a small sports car with the engine in the back).
The engine in the Europa is excellent (but I'm biased, being an ex-VX220 turbo owner) - remap it to get rid of the emissions hole (it wasn't really done that well by Lotus to begin with, TBH) and you get more power too. It really scores in torque and flexibility, you don't need to rev the thing high and it's easy to go fast without having to bang through the gears. The supercharged Toyota is harder work, the engine feels like it's having to work harder, and it sounds bloody awful. A new exhaust is almost a requirement - but one that completely solves the problem (I've got the quietest 2bular pipe possible on mine, and it now sounds lovely for an inline four).
If torque is a big deal to you, and you don't want to be constantly changing gear, then the Europa is the car for you because of that engine. Both engines retain some of the character of the nasp motors they were based on, and the Vauxhall 2 litre (the XE) that begat the Z20LET (I think it's the newer Z20LEH in the Europa, simply a turbo change IIRC) was always a strong, midrange-torque engine. The Toyota is a dual-cam screamer in the Jap high-rev mould, and the supercharged version retains some of that behaviour.
Put it this way - I came from a VXT to an Exige S (so same engines as Europa to Elise SC, effectively). The Exige needs a lot more gear changes and feels like it's got a lot less torque (it had, my VXT had around 250 lb ft!). My Exige sounded painful when revving the thing and needing to go through the gears all the time, and the only black mark on the car - a new exhaust sorted that out and now the car is perfect AFAIAC. It's *fun* to change gear now since the engine sounds the part. But as standard? I feel you may be disappointed in the Toyota engine.
Either way you may need mods - budget for a remap for the Europa to get the engine working as it should do, and for a zorst for the Elise to give the engine some character as you'll need to be working it harder.
(note that my experience is based on two different cars, and the Elise SC has a different supercharger arrangement than the Exige, specifically no intercooler, so the engine noise may not be as unpleasant as it is in the standard Exige. YMMV).
[edit - brain fade]
Edited by cyberface on Saturday 18th July 19:03
I have a Europa as an every day drive and get to drive a lot of Elise variants.
I would say there is a fair difference in getting into and out of the cars. The Europa I can just fall into the seats with no problem.
Engine in the Europa has a lot of torque so its very easy to overtake without having to change gear.
The Europa is also much rarer. Everyone has seen an Elise but not many know the Europa. Means you get a lot of looks and and people talking to you in petrol stations. I guess you could view that as good or bad.
Either way you end up with a great car so its pretty much a win win situation.
enjoy
C43
I would say there is a fair difference in getting into and out of the cars. The Europa I can just fall into the seats with no problem.
Engine in the Europa has a lot of torque so its very easy to overtake without having to change gear.
The Europa is also much rarer. Everyone has seen an Elise but not many know the Europa. Means you get a lot of looks and and people talking to you in petrol stations. I guess you could view that as good or bad.
Either way you end up with a great car so its pretty much a win win situation.
enjoy
C43
cyberface said:
Switch to appropriate tyres and you don't have to drive like a grandma in winter, not at all. I don't, and I've got an Exige S which is meant to be even more aggressive. You can drive hard on the road in winter if you use the right tyres. A048Rs are *not* the right tyres in winter
...
If you want a convertible then the Elise is the only option. This option also comes with marginal year-round usability if the car is kept outside - Lotus have just about cracked the weatherproofing issue so a very recent car *should* be OK all year round with the soft top,
...
The supercharged Toyota is harder work, the engine feels like it's having to work harder, and it sounds bloody awful. A new exhaust is almost a requirement - but one that completely solves the problem (I've got the quietest 2bular pipe possible on mine, and it now sounds lovely for an inline four).
...
I have AD07 tyres on my SC but winter roads require caution. ...
If you want a convertible then the Elise is the only option. This option also comes with marginal year-round usability if the car is kept outside - Lotus have just about cracked the weatherproofing issue so a very recent car *should* be OK all year round with the soft top,
...
The supercharged Toyota is harder work, the engine feels like it's having to work harder, and it sounds bloody awful. A new exhaust is almost a requirement - but one that completely solves the problem (I've got the quietest 2bular pipe possible on mine, and it now sounds lovely for an inline four).
...
In winter you can't safely enjoy the car as much as in summer, IMO.
the soft top has no issues at all, mine is parked on the drive year-round.
Agreed on the exhaust - you need a good one. My 2bular is quiet at constant legalish speed on the mway but still sounds good (more quality than quantity :-) when revving it.
I Suggest a TRD induction kit for that top-end scream ...
edo111s said:
I have AD07 tyres on my SC but winter roads require caution.
In winter you can't safely enjoy the car as much as in summer, IMO.
the soft top has no issues at all, mine is parked on the drive year-round.
Agreed on the exhaust - you need a good one. My 2bular is quiet at constant legalish speed on the mway but still sounds good (more quality than quantity :-) when revving it.
I Suggest a TRD induction kit for that top-end scream ...
AD07s are effectively the A048R with a bit more road tread aren't they? Very sticky in summer, dicey in winter. Try proper winter tyres some time (on any car) - they make winter driving a revelation. Obviously you can't beat the laws of physics but exactly what you say - 'enjoying the car safely' - is possible, you just need the right tools for the job.In winter you can't safely enjoy the car as much as in summer, IMO.
the soft top has no issues at all, mine is parked on the drive year-round.
Agreed on the exhaust - you need a good one. My 2bular is quiet at constant legalish speed on the mway but still sounds good (more quality than quantity :-) when revving it.
I Suggest a TRD induction kit for that top-end scream ...
And I particularly like your description of the 2bular - 'quality more than quantity' - absolutely agree with you there
Mine's the 'quiet' 8" diameter silencer, so it's not obnoxiously loud, but the quality of the sound is an enormous improvement on the standard.Re: the induction kit - the SC doesn't have the big intercooler setup of the Exige S, would the TRD kit actually fit? I'm a bit wary of induction kits as they can generate a lot of the 'wrong' sort of noise (had a cone filter on my S1 as part of the B&C super 160 kit, and it was simply too loud, and due to the location resonated right into the cabin on the throttle - a vicious, resonant rasp) - what's the TRD kit like on the Lotus then?
Europa all the way.
Make sure its got the latest mapping/brakes, or budget for a trip to Thorney motorsport.
Cyber, as always, speaks the truth.
The Europa gives all the +ves of Lotus without the -ves of an Elise.
Plus you are driving a car that is different enough to make people look and stare, as oppose to, oh, its an Elise.
Some seriously good bargains to be had from Europa's currently.
Make sure its got the latest mapping/brakes, or budget for a trip to Thorney motorsport.
Cyber, as always, speaks the truth.
The Europa gives all the +ves of Lotus without the -ves of an Elise.
Plus you are driving a car that is different enough to make people look and stare, as oppose to, oh, its an Elise.
Some seriously good bargains to be had from Europa's currently.
cyberface said:
Try proper winter tyres some time (on any car) - they make winter driving a revelation.
Re: the induction kit - the SC doesn't have the big intercooler setup of the Exige S, would the TRD kit actually fit? I'm a bit wary of induction kits as they can generate a lot of the 'wrong' sort of noise (had a cone filter on my S1 as part of the B&C super 160 kit, and it was simply too loud, and due to the location resonated right into the cabin on the throttle - a vicious, resonant rasp) - what's the TRD kit like on the Lotus then?
Ah PROPER winter tyres - yes I'd give them a try next season if I could find a garage that will keep my AD07 ! Re: the induction kit - the SC doesn't have the big intercooler setup of the Exige S, would the TRD kit actually fit? I'm a bit wary of induction kits as they can generate a lot of the 'wrong' sort of noise (had a cone filter on my S1 as part of the B&C super 160 kit, and it was simply too loud, and due to the location resonated right into the cabin on the throttle - a vicious, resonant rasp) - what's the TRD kit like on the Lotus then?
What true-winter tyres do you recommend for an Elise?
The TRD .. does not resonate, makes an addictive wheeeee sound past 7-7.5 k
Since I had it fitted along with the 2bular, the whole soundtrack changed at once. I'd say at lower revs I only hear the exhaust, at high revs, only the induction.
edo111s said:
cyberface said:
Try proper winter tyres some time (on any car) - they make winter driving a revelation.
Re: the induction kit - the SC doesn't have the big intercooler setup of the Exige S, would the TRD kit actually fit? I'm a bit wary of induction kits as they can generate a lot of the 'wrong' sort of noise (had a cone filter on my S1 as part of the B&C super 160 kit, and it was simply too loud, and due to the location resonated right into the cabin on the throttle - a vicious, resonant rasp) - what's the TRD kit like on the Lotus then?
Ah PROPER winter tyres - yes I'd give them a try next season if I could find a garage that will keep my AD07 ! Re: the induction kit - the SC doesn't have the big intercooler setup of the Exige S, would the TRD kit actually fit? I'm a bit wary of induction kits as they can generate a lot of the 'wrong' sort of noise (had a cone filter on my S1 as part of the B&C super 160 kit, and it was simply too loud, and due to the location resonated right into the cabin on the throttle - a vicious, resonant rasp) - what's the TRD kit like on the Lotus then?
What true-winter tyres do you recommend for an Elise?
The TRD .. does not resonate, makes an addictive wheeeee sound past 7-7.5 k
Since I had it fitted along with the 2bular, the whole soundtrack changed at once. I'd say at lower revs I only hear the exhaust, at high revs, only the induction.
So in winter I have a set of A048Rs piled up in the corner of my cellar office, in summer the Snowsports sit in the corner 
This TRD induction sounds interesting - if it only adds to the drama at very high revs then it could be ideal!!! Of course, it'll just make me drive too fast too often, heh.
Just to chip in on the TRD airbox, I had one fitted to my 07MY Elise along with the factory supercharger kit and stage 3 exhaust not long ago. I have to agree with the above comment - you don't know it's there until about 6-7k rpm, which is when the supercharger whine becomes audible. Up until then, it just sounds like a NA car. Best of both worlds, in my view, although the temptation to "bring the noise" is quite strong!
[k]
[k]
Edited by [k]arl on Sunday 19th July 00:53
Just to add that whatever I decide to get I'll be keeping my Caterham as a weekend toy. A tweaked Europa 197 (say an additional 30-40 bhp) should bring it up to Elise SC levels of performance. Other options include the usual boxster (surprisingly comfy and practical plus the bonus of soft top too) and perhaps a z4 coupe (love the shape).
All the best.
All the best.
Ecosseven - if you're in Ecosse, I am probably about to sell my Europa.
It's a Nov 56/06 Graphite Grey Metallic S with 225bhp Lotus upgrade with brakes, and with full lux pack incl interior - black/creme leather everywhere, tinted rear glass etc. Was London Lotus demo car, pics if you need them.
Not touting it, but if you are interested, have a look at prices and make me an offer -if it's fair, you can have it. If not, no probs, cheers, and it's going on S.O.R at Murrays in Edinburgh. I have added adjustable Nitron shocks from Thorney (have originals) and have a not fitted Milltek exhaust that you can have as well. Never been on track, although that was my plan, and 8.5k miles on clock. Receipts, service etc.`
Great car, just like to try a few different ones, and I've also acquired a new daily driver which means that I can go for something less user friendly than Lotus for weekend/track etc.
Cheers
It's a Nov 56/06 Graphite Grey Metallic S with 225bhp Lotus upgrade with brakes, and with full lux pack incl interior - black/creme leather everywhere, tinted rear glass etc. Was London Lotus demo car, pics if you need them.
Not touting it, but if you are interested, have a look at prices and make me an offer -if it's fair, you can have it. If not, no probs, cheers, and it's going on S.O.R at Murrays in Edinburgh. I have added adjustable Nitron shocks from Thorney (have originals) and have a not fitted Milltek exhaust that you can have as well. Never been on track, although that was my plan, and 8.5k miles on clock. Receipts, service etc.`
Great car, just like to try a few different ones, and I've also acquired a new daily driver which means that I can go for something less user friendly than Lotus for weekend/track etc.
Cheers
footsoldier said:
Ecosseven - if you're in Ecosse, I am probably about to sell my Europa.
It's a Nov 56/06 Graphite Grey Metallic S with 225bhp Lotus upgrade with brakes, and with full lux pack incl interior - black/creme leather everywhere, tinted rear glass etc. Was London Lotus demo car, pics if you need them.
Not touting it, but if you are interested, have a look at prices and make me an offer -if it's fair, you can have it. If not, no probs, cheers, and it's going on S.O.R at Murrays in Edinburgh. I have added adjustable Nitron shocks from Thorney (have originals) and have a not fitted Milltek exhaust that you can have as well. Never been on track, although that was my plan, and 8.5k miles on clock. Receipts, service etc.`
Great car, just like to try a few different ones, and I've also acquired a new daily driver which means that I can go for something less user friendly than Lotus for weekend/track etc.
Cheers
Thanks for the head up. Unfortunately I'm currently working overseas and am not in a position to buy at the moment. Best of the luck with the sale.It's a Nov 56/06 Graphite Grey Metallic S with 225bhp Lotus upgrade with brakes, and with full lux pack incl interior - black/creme leather everywhere, tinted rear glass etc. Was London Lotus demo car, pics if you need them.
Not touting it, but if you are interested, have a look at prices and make me an offer -if it's fair, you can have it. If not, no probs, cheers, and it's going on S.O.R at Murrays in Edinburgh. I have added adjustable Nitron shocks from Thorney (have originals) and have a not fitted Milltek exhaust that you can have as well. Never been on track, although that was my plan, and 8.5k miles on clock. Receipts, service etc.`
Great car, just like to try a few different ones, and I've also acquired a new daily driver which means that I can go for something less user friendly than Lotus for weekend/track etc.
Cheers
Martin.
Bought my Elise SC from Silverstone Lotus a few weeks ago and I'm very impressed by both the dealer the car.
Excellent build quality and performance. Fantastic handling and I've driven it in some very heavy rain with standing water. Makes a much better noise than some of the earlier SC's - I'm not sure if they have improved the exhaust but it sounds better. Have been very impressed by the comfort of the car on long distances too. Not driven the Europa but I've met a few people who have them and are very pleased with this aspect.
Service from Silverstone has been second to none and I've owned Audi's, BMW and VW.
Excellent build quality and performance. Fantastic handling and I've driven it in some very heavy rain with standing water. Makes a much better noise than some of the earlier SC's - I'm not sure if they have improved the exhaust but it sounds better. Have been very impressed by the comfort of the car on long distances too. Not driven the Europa but I've met a few people who have them and are very pleased with this aspect.
Service from Silverstone has been second to none and I've owned Audi's, BMW and VW.
I had a Europa for just over a year, now have an Elise S, and have spent a lot of time in (but not driven) my friend's Elise SC.
With the 225 remap, the Europa will have similar performance to the SC, the SC will probably have the edge just due to lower weight. SC is a bit more of a screamer but far less so (of course) than the R. Europa is even more torquey but lacks the last 2.5K rpm...
Comparing the handling of the Europa with the Elise, there really isn't a lot in it - of course there are subtle differences but they are 90% the same when compared with other cars - i.e. they are both fantastic driver's cars.
The Europa attracted loads of positive comments and interest from people, the Elise less so.
Comfort is actually pretty similar between the two (both Elises - mine and my friends - have touring pack, a/c etc.). Even noise levels are not that different, despite the soft top on the Elises, which are now very well designed and made indeed (ours of course have the double lined roof).
Not a lot in it IMO as far as getting in and out is concerned, nor boot size/general practicality.
225 remap on the Europa makes a big difference - much more than the 25bhp would suggest - so go for one that has it done already.
Not sure if this is a consideration but my friend's SC gets around 31mpg, my Europa used to get 29-30mpg, and (just for the record, not that it is particularly relevant to you) my S gets around 37mpg :-)
But all of the above is totally swamped by my final point - on the Elise, the roof comes off, that is why I bought one to replace the Europa. The other differences really are just details.....
Cheers
Jerry
With the 225 remap, the Europa will have similar performance to the SC, the SC will probably have the edge just due to lower weight. SC is a bit more of a screamer but far less so (of course) than the R. Europa is even more torquey but lacks the last 2.5K rpm...
Comparing the handling of the Europa with the Elise, there really isn't a lot in it - of course there are subtle differences but they are 90% the same when compared with other cars - i.e. they are both fantastic driver's cars.
The Europa attracted loads of positive comments and interest from people, the Elise less so.
Comfort is actually pretty similar between the two (both Elises - mine and my friends - have touring pack, a/c etc.). Even noise levels are not that different, despite the soft top on the Elises, which are now very well designed and made indeed (ours of course have the double lined roof).
Not a lot in it IMO as far as getting in and out is concerned, nor boot size/general practicality.
225 remap on the Europa makes a big difference - much more than the 25bhp would suggest - so go for one that has it done already.
Not sure if this is a consideration but my friend's SC gets around 31mpg, my Europa used to get 29-30mpg, and (just for the record, not that it is particularly relevant to you) my S gets around 37mpg :-)
But all of the above is totally swamped by my final point - on the Elise, the roof comes off, that is why I bought one to replace the Europa. The other differences really are just details.....
Cheers
Jerry
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff