Double Glazing - what place and why can't they?
Discussion
Looking for a few recommendations for good double glaze suppliers.
Also why is it that people like Zenith and Everest do not hold price lists and insist on a visit (despite my having the measurements)? They must come around and look at the house, area, car, furnishings then just have a price range where they make it up based on your appearance.
All I want to do is phone up, give my measurments and get a price. Not an inflated price they can massively deduct from
Also why is it that people like Zenith and Everest do not hold price lists and insist on a visit (despite my having the measurements)? They must come around and look at the house, area, car, furnishings then just have a price range where they make it up based on your appearance.
All I want to do is phone up, give my measurments and get a price. Not an inflated price they can massively deduct from
They do it this way so the sales person can come and do the hard sell showing you their little 'model' window to convince how good they are compared to others. Try ringing their customer services line (as if you were an existing customer needing a repair for example) and you'll see how poor they all are (speaking from experience of needing a replacement window panel from Anglian).
I had one out a while ago when we were considering putting an extra window in our living room (conservatory had made it a bit darker in there) and I did manage to get him to cut to the chase. It worked out far more than I'd bargained for so we just bought some extra table lamps.
I had one out a while ago when we were considering putting an extra window in our living room (conservatory had made it a bit darker in there) and I did manage to get him to cut to the chase. It worked out far more than I'd bargained for so we just bought some extra table lamps.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 23 June 19:58
I dont want hard sell, if I pick up the phone its because I have chosen to call you. Sell me the f
king window, what price can you do it for? No I dont want some fat overweight middle aged man who's wife has left him to come and sit in my front room for 3 hours just to sell me two doors.
That actually happened, Zenith. I asked to see the price list and in a League of Gentleman style papa lazarus voice he said "oh we dont have price lists in our packs we memorize them"
IE pluck a figure from the air. 3 hours, three bd hours that sweating bd was at mine for. For 2 doors, 2 sodding doors.
Think I'll just go to a local manufacturers, give them the measurements and sod off
king window, what price can you do it for? No I dont want some fat overweight middle aged man who's wife has left him to come and sit in my front room for 3 hours just to sell me two doors.That actually happened, Zenith. I asked to see the price list and in a League of Gentleman style papa lazarus voice he said "oh we dont have price lists in our packs we memorize them"
IE pluck a figure from the air. 3 hours, three b
d hours that sweating bd was at mine for. For 2 doors, 2 sodding doors.Think I'll just go to a local manufacturers, give them the measurements and sod off
I sympathise with you, maybe you're best off going direct to a door manufacturer if they will deal direct with you. I'm looking at doing this fitting some Bifold doors to our living room (got a reply from a PH member to email him for a quote on another thread here). Lucky I know a tame builder who can do the essential steelwork fitting and brickwork, I'll have to get him to quote me too and it's more a problem of actually getting hold of him and him being available.....
I find it very arrogant of these companies to take the view that they can talk you into something that (if they gave you the price up front) you would say immediately that it's too much and they can **** off. I once got a 'free' quote when I had my first house (it had basic 'secondary' glazing)he stayed for 3 hours or more. I had a mortgage on my own and no real spare cash, but stupidly fell for the door to door guy's initial cold call to arrange a 'no obligation' visit so I'd know what it would cost 'when I'm ready': I had to virtually push the guy out of the door at 10:30 at night.
I find it very arrogant of these companies to take the view that they can talk you into something that (if they gave you the price up front) you would say immediately that it's too much and they can **** off. I once got a 'free' quote when I had my first house (it had basic 'secondary' glazing)he stayed for 3 hours or more. I had a mortgage on my own and no real spare cash, but stupidly fell for the door to door guy's initial cold call to arrange a 'no obligation' visit so I'd know what it would cost 'when I'm ready': I had to virtually push the guy out of the door at 10:30 at night.
likewise, took ages to push him out, amazed I didnt lose my temper. If ever you have seen League of Gentlemen he looked like this:
Dressed the same too, clearly living out of either his car or a bedsit. Clearly they looked at the cars, house etc and then came up with, wait for it, 4k for 2 doors.
2 doors for 2k each.
Then they called every night offering me the work for free if I would become a show home. I kept pointing out that I live in a cul-de-sac in the middle of nowhere, no passers by etc. Eventually had to threaten legal action to stop the calls.
Why cant double glazing companies be regulated and have all the prices printed up front. Of course fitting is different per job but the actual window costs cant be hard to produce for the standar sizes?!
Dressed the same too, clearly living out of either his car or a bedsit. Clearly they looked at the cars, house etc and then came up with, wait for it, 4k for 2 doors.
2 doors for 2k each.
Then they called every night offering me the work for free if I would become a show home. I kept pointing out that I live in a cul-de-sac in the middle of nowhere, no passers by etc. Eventually had to threaten legal action to stop the calls.
Why cant double glazing companies be regulated and have all the prices printed up front. Of course fitting is different per job but the actual window costs cant be hard to produce for the standar sizes?!
toothrot said:
Why cant double glazing companies be regulated and have all the prices printed up front. Of course fitting is different per job but the actual window costs cant be hard to produce for the standar sizes?!
what are the standard sizes?very few homes have a "standard" size window, andf fitting can vary hugely from house to house, for instance if they had old sash windows the boxes may need removing, cavity walls can be sealed off in diffrent ways either by returning the brick work plastic cavity closers. or even just paster boarded over in some cases (never buy a redrow home)
in short there are huge variables to come into play, so a visit will be needed unless you are just buying the units and fitting them your self.
but i do agree that the sales men are annoying,
just tell them what you want and then start getting on with some other job and tell them to tell you how much once they have measured up. When you turn your back on them and start cleaning the fridge, they seem a bit taken aback. and just get on with it
My advice would be to not deal with any DG company that has salesmen, after all their salary has to come from somewhere. Find a few small local supplier/installers and get quotes from them - it certainly worked for me. I got 11 windows and 1 door for £3000 a couple of years ago and the product and service were impeccable.
Toothrot, sounds a lot like the Zenith guy we were stuck with for an evening a couple of years ago, and looks a bit like him too... wonder if he pissed off all the potential customers in this area and decided to move to a new hunting ground?
Anyway, after resisting the urge to go with his exceedingly generous final offer, we called a local supplier based on a nearby trading estate, their very polite surveyor came out, spent just long enough here to take all the measurements, talk to us about the various frame and glazing options, work out a price, round it down to the nearest thousand, offer to start the work a few days later, and ask us if that sounded satisfactory. Considering his quote was almost half of what Zenith were willing to accept if we signed there and then, and a quarter of what the big Z asked for initially, we had no hesitation in signing immediately (though we didn't have to, the quote was valid for a couple of weeks). The following week they started work on the day they said they would, and two days later it was all done - new windows fitted to 3 bedrooms, living room, bathroom and landing, and all the mess tidied up at the end of each day. 2 years down the line, and the windows have given us no problems at all.
So I'd suggest you have a look around for a local independent rather than wasting time on the big national chains, and if you get any word of mouth recommendations from friends/family in your area, even better. There *are* companies out there who'll do a professional job for a fair price, you just need to look beyond the cowboys with their slick advertising to find them.
Anyway, after resisting the urge to go with his exceedingly generous final offer, we called a local supplier based on a nearby trading estate, their very polite surveyor came out, spent just long enough here to take all the measurements, talk to us about the various frame and glazing options, work out a price, round it down to the nearest thousand, offer to start the work a few days later, and ask us if that sounded satisfactory. Considering his quote was almost half of what Zenith were willing to accept if we signed there and then, and a quarter of what the big Z asked for initially, we had no hesitation in signing immediately (though we didn't have to, the quote was valid for a couple of weeks). The following week they started work on the day they said they would, and two days later it was all done - new windows fitted to 3 bedrooms, living room, bathroom and landing, and all the mess tidied up at the end of each day. 2 years down the line, and the windows have given us no problems at all.
So I'd suggest you have a look around for a local independent rather than wasting time on the big national chains, and if you get any word of mouth recommendations from friends/family in your area, even better. There *are* companies out there who'll do a professional job for a fair price, you just need to look beyond the cowboys with their slick advertising to find them.
LOL i remember him saying to me he couldnt give me a flat price only a buy it now price because the oil market was so unpredictable!! I mean for christ sake they are bits of plastic! you pay most of your money for the 'free fitting' and the equiptment they have to make the windows, the actual cost of the plastic is very minimul!
I'd forgotten, but our conservatory was installed by a local firm who didn't mess us around taking hours up when quoting. We did have one of the larger companies as well but while they were quite prolonged at the quoting stage they were almost double the price.
The local firm worked with me in that I wanted to 'finish' the job to save some money (ie plasterboarding, electrics, plumbing in a radiator and tiling/decorating). The big company didn't seem to want to 'allow this' yet they wouldn't do the tiled 'skirting' that I wanted (to difficult apparently even though I managed as a keen DIYer) and other 'custom' details which has made the finished job look really special.
So forget the rest.....and go to a local firm instead.
The local firm worked with me in that I wanted to 'finish' the job to save some money (ie plasterboarding, electrics, plumbing in a radiator and tiling/decorating). The big company didn't seem to want to 'allow this' yet they wouldn't do the tiled 'skirting' that I wanted (to difficult apparently even though I managed as a keen DIYer) and other 'custom' details which has made the finished job look really special.
So forget the rest.....and go to a local firm instead.
Here's how to get a decent deal from the big chain suppliers.
Their prices are vastly inflated, and the salesman will try to justify that using the 'style' and 'quality' arguments. The cost price is well under half the quoted price. The salesman will be permitted to reduce the price to ensure a sale, but his commission will reduce too.
However, the salesman makes most of his commission from selling you the credit to buy his overpriced windows. He makes far more from the credit company (often in house, Weatherseal, Everest etc.) than he makes from the windows.
So: Invite him in, let him faff around measuring up, and let him quote. Make interested noises about the credit agreement he'll try to sell you. Convince him that you are interested, and want to pay on credit, and you'll see pound signs in his eyes.
Then tell him the windows are too expensive, tell him what price you are prepared to pay. (You have got a figure in mind, haven't you? Perhaps from getting a local small firm to quote?) Around half of his original quote will be about right.
He WILL phone his office, to see if his boss will 'authorise a better offer'. The boss will want to talk to you, make sure you mention the credit arrangements a couple of times, it's the credit they want to sell, not the windows. The boss won't care about the salesman's commission on the windows sale, and will 'authorise' a much more realistic sale price. Sell YOURSELF as the perfect customer, i.e. buying on credit, and they will come down to cost + 5% (Weatherseal) if you stick to your guns.
So, you've got your windows at nearly cost price, but you've signed up to a rediculously overpriced rolling credit agreement. You've got the cooling off period, remember. Cancel the credit agreement, beg, steal or borrow the cash from someone more honest, like an MP for example, and pay the windows in cash.
You still get them at cost, the salesman gets screwed for his commission on the sale AND the credit, because his commission is only a small percentage of the 5% over cost that you were quoted, and the fat cheque for the credit deal gets clawed back.
Make sure the installation's absolutely spot on before coughing up the last of the cash, the maintenance crews won't know that you screwed the salesman over, (they'd laugh if they knew) but the after sales service is crap.
"My name is Keith and I was a double glazing salesman"
For two weeks, including the training course.
Their prices are vastly inflated, and the salesman will try to justify that using the 'style' and 'quality' arguments. The cost price is well under half the quoted price. The salesman will be permitted to reduce the price to ensure a sale, but his commission will reduce too.
However, the salesman makes most of his commission from selling you the credit to buy his overpriced windows. He makes far more from the credit company (often in house, Weatherseal, Everest etc.) than he makes from the windows.
So: Invite him in, let him faff around measuring up, and let him quote. Make interested noises about the credit agreement he'll try to sell you. Convince him that you are interested, and want to pay on credit, and you'll see pound signs in his eyes.
Then tell him the windows are too expensive, tell him what price you are prepared to pay. (You have got a figure in mind, haven't you? Perhaps from getting a local small firm to quote?) Around half of his original quote will be about right.
He WILL phone his office, to see if his boss will 'authorise a better offer'. The boss will want to talk to you, make sure you mention the credit arrangements a couple of times, it's the credit they want to sell, not the windows. The boss won't care about the salesman's commission on the windows sale, and will 'authorise' a much more realistic sale price. Sell YOURSELF as the perfect customer, i.e. buying on credit, and they will come down to cost + 5% (Weatherseal) if you stick to your guns.
So, you've got your windows at nearly cost price, but you've signed up to a rediculously overpriced rolling credit agreement. You've got the cooling off period, remember. Cancel the credit agreement, beg, steal or borrow the cash from someone more honest, like an MP for example
, and pay the windows in cash. You still get them at cost, the salesman gets screwed for his commission on the sale AND the credit, because his commission is only a small percentage of the 5% over cost that you were quoted, and the fat cheque for the credit deal gets clawed back.
Make sure the installation's absolutely spot on before coughing up the last of the cash, the maintenance crews won't know that you screwed the salesman over, (they'd laugh if they knew) but the after sales service is crap.
"My name is Keith and I was a double glazing salesman"
For two weeks, including the training course.
Out of interest how do you find a local supplier? I have some windows that are old wooden type - not rotten and very odd sizes and styles. One has a double glazing pannel that has gone. I need to check if I need the glass or glass + window.
If I needed a window - where would I get it from????
If I needed a window - where would I get it from????
IMHO it is worth doing your research to find a good LOCAL window company.
Spot the vans in your area. A firm with more than one, clean, good looking vehicle - preferably not new and then take a look at the premises when they're closed.
Do your own survey and take some pics of the pattern of windows you want on other people's houses.
Design is more important than you'd think - How will you clean the upstairs panes for example?
Go around there and find out if they manufacture their own windows and whether they have their own glass studios. If you call on spec there's every chance that you'll get to talk to the principal who will be happy to haggle with you.
There are dozens of blokes who work from home and a leased new van, buying windows from trade suppliers and fitting them with a box of tools from B&Q. Most are in it for the short game so they are not neccesarily cheap and offer no meaningful after sales.
As for the glass, if there's condensation betwen the panes you need to replace it. Easy DIY job - Did one at the weekend. Glass cost 30 quid and took about 15 mins!
I'll leave the rest to PH's window guru BMG!
Spot the vans in your area. A firm with more than one, clean, good looking vehicle - preferably not new and then take a look at the premises when they're closed.
Do your own survey and take some pics of the pattern of windows you want on other people's houses.
Design is more important than you'd think - How will you clean the upstairs panes for example?
Go around there and find out if they manufacture their own windows and whether they have their own glass studios. If you call on spec there's every chance that you'll get to talk to the principal who will be happy to haggle with you.
There are dozens of blokes who work from home and a leased new van, buying windows from trade suppliers and fitting them with a box of tools from B&Q. Most are in it for the short game so they are not neccesarily cheap and offer no meaningful after sales.
As for the glass, if there's condensation betwen the panes you need to replace it. Easy DIY job - Did one at the weekend. Glass cost 30 quid and took about 15 mins!
I'll leave the rest to PH's window guru BMG!
darronwall said:
i struggle to beleive the amount of crap written about buying windows on here,its very amusing!
Which bit(s)? The salesmen that won't leave is quite true, not so sure about the pricing structure that some have spoken about. Try getting some DG or conservatory salesmen round and see for yourself how pushy and persuasive they can be...they use all the tricks, even try to trigger your macho streak - "well if you're too poor to afford this quality, blah, blah".Of course if you happen to work in the business maybe there is another angle that you could enlighten us with?
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