Power! How I can extract more?

[Ikemi]

Afternoon all ... I haven't been on this section of PH for awhile ... Hope all is good

I've had my Elise for just over two years and in that time I've covered nearly 44,000 miles! However because of this high usage I am finding myself becoming too accustomed to the power delivery and acceleration of the car - Time for some upgrades!

So far I have done the usual; Bilstein suspension, Janspeed sports exhaust with de-cat, drilled discs, Pagid pads and some Neova's all round.

I'm not sure where to go from there? I'd like more power (160BHP+), but reliable power. The standard K-Series lump in my car has done 75,000 miles in total and I'm unsure as to whether it'll last any longer with upgrades ... Would I be right in thinking this? Do I:

a) Buy and install a new/second hand VVC engine and be happy?
b) Visit DVA Power and opt for their ~£2K 160BHP package?
c) Have some cams and bike carbs fitted as a friend suggested? Can this be done? Good alternative to throttle bodies with lots of power?
d) Sell my car and invest the money in a sorted S160?

I doubt I'd opt for an engine conversion, as they're all a bit too expensive! I have about £1800-2200, perhaps a bit more to pay with

Any ideas?

Cheers!

[bogie]

for £2K ish your best to visit DVA and get a 155/160bhp kit ...that will make it a bit more nippy

but beware, driving it daily, you quickly get used to whatever you have...I remember when I wasd doingf 20Kmiles a year in my Elise, it went from 120bhp to 160bhp, then 220, then 300, and finally about 330bhp ish

Looking back, well I would say in a K series Elise, 160bhp is a sweetspot cost/performance/reliability wise

200-220bhp in K series Elise is more than quick enough for road use

and anything more than that, is overkill really ...but fun

[RobM77]

In my opinion (and this is just my opinion), my Lotus (or any Lotus) is an amazing car not because of the parts that make it up but because of the way those parts are carefully tuned to work together. It's a very complete car. Therefore, my advice would
be to trade up to an original, un fettled Sport 160.

Just my opinion mind you :-)

[Lefty Guns]

Slightly off topic (sorry), but is there much benefit in re-gearing a 160bhp S1 Elise by lowering the final drive?

I've been toying with the idea of an early s1 with say 160bhp to give pwr of ~200bhp/mT.

[GR4]

Sinclaire's have just announced their forthcoming Duratec conversion. Supposed to be a fair bit cheaper than Honda & Audi conversions, so maybe you could have a torquey, reliable 200bhp in your car for less than the cost of changing to a 160 ?


Edited to say sorry, I've just seen your budget. Duratec won't come in for that, but neither would changing to a 160.

Edited by GR4 on Wednesday 27th May 14:15

[kambites]

Any indication of how much the Duratec conversion will cost?

[Ikemi]

kambites said:

Any indication of how much the Duratec conversion will cost?

I know Steve Williams does the conversion complete with over 30 bespoke parts for £8995 ... I think Sinclair's is cheaper, although I'm not sure by how much, but does not incorporate any of the custom parts SW has included to help the Duratec fit/run better in the Elise.

[GR4]

I'm not much wiser, but following the story with interest. I think Sinclaire are in final testing stages so have not released final price, but indicative was I think £6k turnkey, or cheaper DIY, including a brand new engine. To be fair to them, they have done bespoke throttle bodies, mapped ECU, exhaust manifold etc so quite a lot of 'one-off' items in the kit. I wouldn't know what more there is in the Willliams conversion, other than he uses the 2.3 Duratec vs the 2.0 by Sinclaire. Both units good for a reasonably unstressed 200bhp though, as demonstrated by Caterham and others.

[kambites]

Hmm, 6k for a factory install with a brand new engine... surely that would be closer to 4k for a home installed re-con engine. Will all the bits fit a 2.3?

[TIPPER]

RobM77 said:

In my opinion (and this is just my opinion), my Lotus (or any Lotus) is an amazing car not because of the parts that make it up but because of the way those parts are carefully tuned to work together. It's a very complete car. Therefore, my advice would
be to trade up to an original, un fettled Sport 160.

Just my opinion mind you :-)

Mmmmm. The 160 always struck me as a cheapish way of Lotus extracting a bit more from the K and lots more from the paying punter!
I'd say a Nitroned Elise S1 with a DVA or Kiwirog K will be a more tractable car thats as fast, handles and rides better and is more usable on the road without having tantrums.

[cyberface]

Pour a couple of bottles of *this* in your tank:



Works well in the tank of a gixxer sportsbike, apparently

[stinkysteve]

I've got a K series and i'm thinking of doing the following:

free flow air filter/induction. This will give you more from your exhaust anyway if you don't already have it.
Maybe £100-200 for plus 3-5 bhp.

Change the camshafts. higher lift/longer duration will give you more power. maybe 20-25bhp if set up properly without putting anything undriveable at low revs in. Probably £400 for the bits and then DIY.(get the whole kit including new followers etc)

then think about getting the ecu set reprogrammed or changed. I'm not sure yet about the capabilities of the existing ecu, i'm just rebuilding a ford CVH at present doing the above. With that, the ecu 'learns' about the increased airflow, etc, and compensates accordingly. On a K you might need a new ECU (emerald?) and then get it all set up on a rolling road. this might release a little more power, but it will certainly let you get the power in the rev's you want.

The bottom end of K is very reliable upto about 150-160, so don't worry.

I reckon the above, with your exhaust, should let you see somewhere around 150 for not too much over a grand.

When i get on with mine this winter i'll report back!

[bogie]

www.dvapower.co.uk

all the tried and tested options are there

read Daves K series page (linked from there)

people have been tuning that engine for 15 years now, and all the solutions are pretty well proven by now

[S Works]

Get the DVA kit, and talk to him about what you can do next to get it from 160ish upto 175ish (because that's where you'll want to end up).

How do I know this?

Well I've a relatively standard Sport 160 (with induction and aftermarket exhaust), and to get the best from that I'd have needed to see DVA for a 175bhp kit and some nitrons.

I've also had an NA Honda'd S2 and to get that you need to spend £'000's more than your budget allows.

I've also, more latterly, had a wonderful S1 Sport 135 with the whole DVA kit, a VHPD head, DTHTB's, airbox, Emerald and Dave Walker map, on Ohlins etc. and it was the best all-round package I've ever had. I wish I'd never sold any of them, but if I could have kept one (whilst heart says S160), head says the modded 135. It was by far the best package. Shouldn't have sold it.

[Scoop24]

I had the same dilemma last year on my 66k S1. I looked at the various inductions, exhausts, but for the money i decided on the K13a DVA kit. The cost came out at a little over £2k (as the liners had dropped slightly), but it really does make a difference to the car. Although it's meant to be circa 155 bhp ish, the main difference is that instead of the power dropping off afer 4k rpm, it picks up and pulls right through to the red line. I'm running standard exhaust and panel filter, although found the subsequent use of a de-cat proper screwed it up and left a big hole in the middle of the rev's (i guess an emerald would sort that out, but too expensive at the moment). So, i'd go for the K13a kit, and play with the rest when and if you can.

[bordseye]

GR4 said:

I wouldn't know what more there is in the Willliams conversion, other than he uses the 2.3 Duratec vs the 2.0 by Sinclaire. Both units good for a reasonably unstressed 200bhp though, as demonstrated by Caterham and others.

Dont Ford use the Volvo 5 cylinder engine in their "fast" versions of the Focus etc? Would this engine fit in an Elise?

[bogie]

bordseye said:

GR4 said:

I wouldn't know what more there is in the Willliams conversion, other than he uses the 2.3 Duratec vs the 2.0 by Sinclaire. Both units good for a reasonably unstressed 200bhp though, as demonstrated by Caterham and others.

Dont Ford use the Volvo 5 cylinder engine in their "fast" versions of the Focus etc? Would this engine fit in an Elise?

nope, already been consdered when it came out ...nice engine ...too wide though

[cyberface]

bordseye said:

GR4 said:

I wouldn't know what more there is in the Willliams conversion, other than he uses the 2.3 Duratec vs the 2.0 by Sinclaire. Both units good for a reasonably unstressed 200bhp though, as demonstrated by Caterham and others.

Dont Ford use the Volvo 5 cylinder engine in their "fast" versions of the Focus etc? Would this engine fit in an Elise?

More than 4 cylinders would be utterly lovely in an Elise... the only possible complaint I could make about the package as a whole is the lack of engine character, but AFAIK there aren't any real options for nice-sounding engines in the Elise. Fives and sixes are too big, and fours can be made more powerful than any of the possible threes on the market so nobody has bothered with the 'half-a-911' triples. I've always thought the Mitsu 2 litre V6 (which sounds excellent and revs to buggery) from the FTO would rock in an Elise, but you can get more power from a K, Honda or Duratec so AFAIK nobody has bothered. Also V engines are wider, which would almost certainly result in losing the boot of the Elise, and potentially shifting the weight distribution further backwards, making it even more 911-like...

There is the Esthi (sp?) which has a turbo Audi V6 in the back, but IIRC it was sliced lengthwise and an additional couple of inches of fibreglass stuck in to make the car wider. Not really an option.

[bogie]

Caral motorsport will put you a 4.2V8 supercharged Jag engine in there if you want

..with a different subframe, clam...errr...pretty much everything behind the driver replaced

..at which point does it stop being an Elise though, rather than just a one off kit, that looks a bit like one?

[kambites]

What about a VR6? Would that fit? Or a VR5 if it wont.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 31st May 19:51