Cheap Off-Camera Flash

[jon-]

Hello Again (!)

I realise I'm posting a lot in this section at the moment, but hopefully it's all good discussion!

Recently I was posting about off camera flashes. We discussed a Speedlite 580exII which would be the perfect flash for my camera, but I can't quite justify the cost as I'll mostly be using it with a cheap ebay wireless trigger!

So what flash would people recommend with a good range, good manual adjuster and doesn't cost the earth? I was thinking about the Speedlite 430, but there must be other flash manufactures that offer better value for money than Canon for what I want to do! Ideally I'd like to spend around the £200 mark, allowing £50 or so for a trigger and stand.

Thanks (again)

[SamHH]

If you're going to spend £200 then you're best off stretching to a 430 II or a second hand 430, 550 or 580. That way you'll be able to use it with on-camera with automatic metering if you ever want. Otherwise, you could spend much less and get something like an old Cobra flashgun. I think a lot of people use Vivitar 285s as well.

[jon-]

Wouldn't someone like Metz do a flash in the range that still works with TTL, but is more flash per £ than the Canon?

[SamHH]

The Metz flashguns do allow TTL but from what I've seen are priced similarly to the Canons. My understanding is that some Metz flashguns are used in conjunction with a relatively cheap adapter for different makes of camera, so maybe that's an advantage if you want to use your flash with multiple makes. Sigma are the only other company that I am aware of making Canon TTL compatible flashguns and they do seem a bit cheaper.

Even so, I think I'd either splash out on a Canon EX or go for a cheapo manual flash to use exclusively off camera. I don't do flash photography much, but I suspect that if you get seriously into it, you'll find having just one flashgun limiting anyway; one of each (Canon and el-cheapo) might be good.

[jon-]

SamHH said:

one of each (Canon and el-cheapo) might be good.

Musing over lunch I came to this conclusion. The 430 for main shots, and a dirt cheap pure slave for when I need a second strobe.

Now, my wallet crys again.

[arej]

jon- said:

...The 430 for main shots, and a dirt cheap pure slave for when I need a second strobe...

That might be a good idea. I only have manual strobes so don't know how good (or otherwise) E-TTL is, but I have a Vivitar 285hv, old Olympus flash my dad used on his film SLR and in the post from Hong Kong right now is a Yongnuo YN460 (a very cheap chinese copy of a nikon flash) to replace the Olympus one.
The problem with the Vivitar is now swivel so you lose bounce ability when in portrait orientation and it is fairly large compared to most flashes, however it is very good off-camera when that doesn't matter. I can let you know what the Yongnuo is like when that arrives (hopefully soon) but in theory should be quite good. There is lots of stuff to read on the internet about strobist stuff (off-camera flash) including what kit people recommend.
In terms of triggers I have the PT-04 ebay "poverty wizards" which for me have been faultless but for others a bit of I nightmare I believe and I reckon they are well worth a shot as anything better is a big step up in money.
HTH

[jon-]

arej said:

jon- said:

...The 430 for main shots, and a dirt cheap pure slave for when I need a second strobe...

That might be a good idea. I only have manual strobes so don't know how good (or otherwise) E-TTL is, but I have a Vivitar 285hv, old Olympus flash my dad used on his film SLR and in the post from Hong Kong right now is a Yongnuo YN460 (a very cheap chinese copy of a nikon flash) to replace the Olympus one.
The problem with the Vivitar is now swivel so you lose bounce ability when in portrait orientation and it is fairly large compared to most flashes, however it is very good off-camera when that doesn't matter. I can let you know what the Yongnuo is like when that arrives (hopefully soon) but in theory should be quite good. There is lots of stuff to read on the internet about strobist stuff (off-camera flash) including what kit people recommend.
In terms of triggers I have the PT-04 ebay "poverty wizards" which for me have been faultless but for others a bit of I nightmare I believe and I reckon they are well worth a shot as anything better is a big step up in money.
HTH

I'm just about to order a set of PT-04's. I figure I'll get the 3 receiver pack ( http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PT-04-CN-Wireless-Flash-Trig... ) then I won't mind if the receivers start breaking!

The Yongnuo YN460 looks surprisingly excellent. I couldn't find any on ebay, but I did find a discussion on the strobist and I'm sold. Where did you order it from? Edit: I found it on ebay us with shipping to the UK, I'm not sure why it didn't show.

Edited by jon- on Thursday 14th May 09:45

[stigmundfreud]

ERROR 101 goto FAIL

Jon, you will mind when they start breaking, in fact its guaranteed. They will fire as and when they want to. TEst fires will work perfectly and then once you start to shoot they are very very hit and miss

[jon-]

stigmundfreud said:

ERROR 101 goto FAIL

Jon, you will mind when they start breaking, in fact its guaranteed. They will fire as and when they want to. TEst fires will work perfectly and then once you start to shoot they are very very hit and miss

I've done a fair bit of reading on the PT-04s and as arej pointed out, they seem to be quite hit and miss. Fortunately the miss section seems to be about 5%, so I'm not that fussed.

That's £40 delivered, a similar pocket wizzard setup would be what, £350? Even if they fire 25% of the time I'm happy.

I only currently plan to strobe static objects, not people or sports so I can afford to have a few misses!

[stigmundfreud]

there are other better makes than the pt's for slightly more. Trust me the 5% miss is bullst, these things do and will fail, often. They might when fully brand new work perfect but I've been on several shoots with others where their pt's have worked on test then come to shoot = nothing. They are crap. Spend 40 now and 40 later or spend 150 and get a skyport kit. Yes you need to spend 70 per receiver but over the lifetime it is much more reliable. OK Can understand if its just for static casual shoots here and there but is missing out on a shot or even a session worth it?

[jon-]

stigmundfreud said:

there are other better makes than the pt's for slightly more. Trust me the 5% miss is bullst, these things do and will fail, often. They might when fully brand new work perfect but I've been on several shoots with others where their pt's have worked on test then come to shoot = nothing. They are crap. Spend 40 now and 40 later or spend 150 and get a skyport kit. Yes you need to spend 70 per receiver but over the lifetime it is much more reliable. OK Can understand if its just for static casual shoots here and there but is missing out on a shot or even a session worth it?

I 100% trust what your saying, and the thought of turning up to a shoot and having none of it working would be a total nightmare. I'm still quite new to all this, so trying to keep the initial outlay low.

I'll look into the skyport kit, but if I go for the PT's and they fail within minutes, or are generally useless I'll be sure to post here so you can say "I told you so"

[stigmundfreud]

I'm sure they will work, I'd have them if I could 100% trust them. Tbh the cost of radio triggers are an absolute joke considering even the PW's look like they were made in china by the lowest bidder

[jon-]

I've just been poking around your site. I really like those videos, especially the 3rd one of the commercial shoot. Looks like a fun day!

[stigmundfreud]

that was a very very very long day! You can see the change from speedlights to an interfit stellar head, guess why? The other tog was planning to use those stty ebay triggers, they failed, luckily I had taken some studio kit with me!

[mas99]

If money were no object then we would all be running pocktwizards etc.

I have a cheap hobby setup. PT-04's (totally reliable so far) and I have a jessops 360AFD (£45 - good deal new) and a similar minolta manual flash (£30 2nd hand), plus a couple of old basic flashes. The canon/nikon flashes are silly prices - especially the old SB's that were cheap until strobist made them popular again.

The Jesspos and minolta have full manual control.

If you look on the flickr strobist groups there is discussion of various cheap but still decent flashes. There is a chinese younghang or something that gets a good write up. Of course if you are doing commercial stuff and need 100% reliability then go spend the £££. But for personal stuff You can get very acceptable use and reliability for a fraction of teh price.

Edited by mas99 on Thursday 14th May 13:38

[arej]

Not sure if you are still interested in the YN460 but mine has just arrived - ~2 weeks from HK including a bank holiday. I'm very pleased with it - works perfectly on camera, with PT-04 triggers and with it's built in optical slave. If you are on a budget then I definitely recommend it - I'll see how it fares long term. Let me know if you want to know anything else about it.
P.S. This is the one I ordered: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Speedlight-YN-460-for-... same as most others but comes with a diffuser softbox to put on it. Also I have just found this one from the same people but in dollars so a bit cheaper due to exchange rate: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Speedlight-YN-460-for-... Their username is the manufacturers so I don't know if that is good or even true. I hope this is of use.

[jon-]

arej said:

Not sure if you are still interested in the YN460 but mine has just arrived - ~2 weeks from HK including a bank holiday. I'm very pleased with it - works perfectly on camera, with PT-04 triggers and with it's built in optical slave. If you are on a budget then I definitely recommend it - I'll see how it fares long term. Let me know if you want to know anything else about it.
P.S. This is the one I ordered: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Speedlight-YN-460-for-... same as most others but comes with a diffuser softbox to put on it. Also I have just found this one from the same people but in dollars so a bit cheaper due to exchange rate: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Speedlight-YN-460-for-... Their username is the manufacturers so I don't know if that is good or even true. I hope this is of use.

Thanks. You talked me into ordering one

[u_lift_u_lose]

One flash that is definatly worth a look is the canon 540ez, I use one of these & an old vivitar, On or off Camera (dslr) you have to set it up manually but it's got so much control & its great value for money.

[omohat]

I too started with the cheap ebay triggers and the misfires get to be very frustrating very fast because you just don't know when you can trust them. 5% might not sound like much, but as the environment gets more challenging (walls/RF interference/range/battery loses power etc) that figure will start to climb. I understand pocket wizards cost a fortune but what about elinchrom skyports? I've been using them pretty much since they came out and they are rock solid. They probably aren't as flexible as pocket wizards in terms of range/channels but they've served me well (30ft easily). You don't necessarily need one receiver per flash if you use optical slave triggers so you can save some money that way.

[jon-]

jon- said:

arej said:

Not sure if you are still interested in the YN460 but mine has just arrived - ~2 weeks from HK including a bank holiday. I'm very pleased with it - works perfectly on camera, with PT-04 triggers and with it's built in optical slave. If you are on a budget then I definitely recommend it - I'll see how it fares long term. Let me know if you want to know anything else about it.
P.S. This is the one I ordered: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Speedlight-YN-460-for-... same as most others but comes with a diffuser softbox to put on it. Also I have just found this one from the same people but in dollars so a bit cheaper due to exchange rate: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Speedlight-YN-460-for-... Their username is the manufacturers so I don't know if that is good or even true. I hope this is of use.

Thanks. You talked me into ordering one

Mine arrived yesterday. Compared to my 430exII it feels like the slightest knock and it might fall apart, there's dust behind the perspex and I don't expect the bounce card to last more than 3 uses, oh, and it's really noisy! As always there's a but... I love the simple interface, it works as an optical slave just fine and it cost 1/6th of the 430.