Find a Sportscar....Recommended!
Discussion
I'm sure most of you know Rob very well so apologies if this is a repetitive post.
I'm new to the world of Tiv and so had Rob (Findasportscar.co.uk) inspect a car for me from the PH Classifieds.
I received the report from the car (I now own) this morning and its reassuring to know that someone with this type of detailed knowledge of the cars has given it a lot more than the once over.
Recommended...
I'm new to the world of Tiv and so had Rob (Findasportscar.co.uk) inspect a car for me from the PH Classifieds.
I received the report from the car (I now own) this morning and its reassuring to know that someone with this type of detailed knowledge of the cars has given it a lot more than the once over.
Recommended...
timmybob said:
Name and shame rules prevents anyone a frightening number of people saying any different.
EFA
There are three kinds of car when you are buying.EFA
The genuinely good (which by definition look good).
The obviously bad.
The apparently good, which in fact have undisclosed problems.
Anyone can see the second group. The trick is telling the first from the last.
Which is why people employ car inspection services if they lack the knowledge to check for themselves.
When someone buys a car using a car inspection service, if the car turns out to be from the first group, the new owner goes around recommending the inspector.
If the inspector recommends a car that turns out to be from the third group, nobody hears, because of the no naming and shaming rules.
Newcomers hear only one side and this leads to newcomers putting their faith in that inspector. They then assume that a car MUST be good, just because that inspector said so.
Please consider the possibility that the car is in group two, but you haven't found that out yet.
If an inspector was any good, there wouldn't be people making posts like this. They wouldn't have bought a group two car and been unhappy.
OP, I sincerely hope you have bought a car from the first group.
However, as you employed a car inspector, it infers you are are unsure of your own ability to judge the car.
Here you are, on the first day of ownership, praising the inspector.
Please wait until you have owned the car for a blissful and trouble free year and heard what the TVR specialists who will service it for you say after they have examined it.
Then tell people how happy you are.
I'm really sorry to put a dampener on that great feeling we get on having a new TVR.
Go and enjoy driving it. But please don't lead other newcomers into using an inspection service until you have had time to find out.
If we should meet, please ask to see the history files on my car. Compare the inspection report to the bills following purchase.
The car is now as good as the report id it was. But that cost me thousands to make it so.
Edited by Uncle Fester on Tuesday 12th May 15:46
Uncle Fester said:
If we should meet, please ask to see the history files on my car. Compare the inspection report to the bills following purchase.
The car is now as good as the report id it was. But that cost me thousands to make it so.
My old Chimaera was the same. Really strong and one of the best he'd seen according to his report. Which is why I spent a lot of money in my first few months of ownership putting right things that I had paid to be informed about (but wasn't). My inspection report was full of praise, the only negative comment was one I'd mentioned prior to the inspection about the brakes needing replacing. The car is now as good as the report id it was. But that cost me thousands to make it so.
As said above anyone can inspect an already good car and pass it off as such. Where the true money is earned is finding the no.2s as Uncle F puts it above!
Edited by Zippee on Tuesday 12th May 15:52
TOV!E said:
timmybob said:
Name and shame rules prevent anyone saying any different.
Why do people trust there money with a ex fridge fixer.??????????????????????????????
grahamw48 said:
Hmm...I just kicked the tyres and checked for bodyrot on mine. 
forgot to kick the tyres when i looked for mine! What can happen? Could the wheels fall off when i go round a corner?? Helped a fellow local to me buy his first Chim. Only charged a pint.
Serously though there are many things to look out for which anyone that does their own maintenence will be aware of. But there is a big degree of pot luck. At the very least take someone with you who has an intimate knowledge of the car with you. Plenty of folk will volunteer this. I would never pay anyone money unless they offer some kind of warranty/insurance. Just like a full structural building survey.. Living in Germany faced me with the problem of getting to the good cars in time before anyone else bought the car. Using an inspection service (not necessarily this one) is definitely worth the money considering the amount of travel expenses when looking for the car yourself.
I (and two friends of mine) have made good experiences with Rob. I have my T350 for two years now and she's still going strong. Rudi got his Chimaera last year and still enjoys driving her every day. Markus' T350 is also an excellent example although he's having problems with the light conversion - but that's nothing Rob could have found during his inspection.
If you have a local around - a PHer or TVRCC member - it might be a cheaper and more qualified option. Living abroad still makes me prefer an inspection service - especially when knowing the model but not the final car yet (I hope this makes sense - speaking German all the time doesn't really help my English). Services like a native speaker's price negotiation or having the car driven to Germany need not be forgotten.
I (and two friends of mine) have made good experiences with Rob. I have my T350 for two years now and she's still going strong. Rudi got his Chimaera last year and still enjoys driving her every day. Markus' T350 is also an excellent example although he's having problems with the light conversion - but that's nothing Rob could have found during his inspection.
If you have a local around - a PHer or TVRCC member - it might be a cheaper and more qualified option. Living abroad still makes me prefer an inspection service - especially when knowing the model but not the final car yet (I hope this makes sense - speaking German all the time doesn't really help my English). Services like a native speaker's price negotiation or having the car driven to Germany need not be forgotten.
stimshady said:
why is there a no name and shame rule? what's the problem with letting others know you've experienced something bad... plenty of other sites allow it - look at tripadvisor.
Possibly because every sevice and business will have unhappy customers and they tend to shout the loudest. It may be that I sell 100 widgets , of those 2 of them are used outside of their design tolerances and break. Those 2 people shout about how the product is rubbish and through no fault of the product my sales drop through the floor and I go out of business. Its not a perfect solution but I can understand why it would be so.
It’s true we need dependable car inspection services. People often can’t travel the mileage to look at many cars, especially if they are overseas.
The problem is how people can tell a good inspector from a bad one, is almost as tricky as telling apart good from bad cars.
Chimjunkie makes a good point. The provision of a warrantee could be the answer to driving up standards.
The inspector must take financial liability for any faults present at the time of inspection, which the inspection failed to disclose. That must be underwritten by an insurance policy.
An inspector who incurs a high percentage of claims, or a few substantial claims wouldn’t be able to trade. His insurers would raise his premiums in accordance with his claims record. This would in turn, force his fees up to cover the premiums until customers found them prohibitive. In addition, he should publish his claims record so that prospective customers could gauge performance.
The fact that an inspector doesn’t stand by the quality of his work indicates his own opinion of his abilities. It may also be that the insurers may insist upon some degree of qualification to practice. For example, an appropriate, recognised motor engineering qualification and a professional history of working on the Marque.
The comparison between a garage and an inspector isn’t good because it’s not comparing like for like.
Apart from servicing, people generally take their car to a garage because something is wrong, it needs repair. If it comes back still broken then obviously there will be complaints. All cars going into the garage have a problem. If 1% still has a problem afterwards, that might be a reasonable performance. People could understand that all garages have a comeback rate. Provided that rate wasn’t significantly higher than average, then people would accept it. Garages with a remarkably high percentage of satisfied customers would stand out and attract customers. What would become more important are reports of how the garage resolves customer complaints.
An inspector is different because he is looking at a number of cars that have nothing significant wrong. Only a few will have significant defects. Let’s assume that 95% of cars are basically good. The owners are selling for ‘genuine reasons’ such as trading up, asset liquidation, etc, etc.
Then assume the other 5% are an owner selling because they have found out the car is defective, making it uneconomical to repair. Or the owner is unaware of the problem.
Assume an inspector sees 100 cars, and spots 4 faulty, that’s not a failure rate of 1% His failure rate is 20%. He looked at 5 faulty cars and only correctly spotted 80%
However, if all 100 customers report on their satisfaction, it would incorrectly appear that 99% of customers were satisfied.
If an inspector failed to report a significant fault the customer would be unhappy. If the fault was then properly and promptly rectified, with costs covered by the warranty, the customer would be placated. What causes customers to keep posting their dissatisfaction is having a major expense immediately post purchase to rectify faults that were present when the inspection was carried out.
They are justifiably angry and wish others not to suffer the same fate. If an inspector has missed faults that could have potentially caused a road traffic accident, then they have endangered the life of the buyer, probably his wife and children and other road users in general.
The buyer may conclude that for public safety, the inspector has no right to the trust of those who are obtaining for a (supposedly) professional standard opinion.
Especially if he then finds a well respected TVR expert like James, who knows what’s wrong with your car, without you telling him, because he looked at the car before the inspector did, saw the faults and refused to buy it.
The problem is how people can tell a good inspector from a bad one, is almost as tricky as telling apart good from bad cars.
Chimjunkie makes a good point. The provision of a warrantee could be the answer to driving up standards.
The inspector must take financial liability for any faults present at the time of inspection, which the inspection failed to disclose. That must be underwritten by an insurance policy.
An inspector who incurs a high percentage of claims, or a few substantial claims wouldn’t be able to trade. His insurers would raise his premiums in accordance with his claims record. This would in turn, force his fees up to cover the premiums until customers found them prohibitive. In addition, he should publish his claims record so that prospective customers could gauge performance.
The fact that an inspector doesn’t stand by the quality of his work indicates his own opinion of his abilities. It may also be that the insurers may insist upon some degree of qualification to practice. For example, an appropriate, recognised motor engineering qualification and a professional history of working on the Marque.
The comparison between a garage and an inspector isn’t good because it’s not comparing like for like.
Apart from servicing, people generally take their car to a garage because something is wrong, it needs repair. If it comes back still broken then obviously there will be complaints. All cars going into the garage have a problem. If 1% still has a problem afterwards, that might be a reasonable performance. People could understand that all garages have a comeback rate. Provided that rate wasn’t significantly higher than average, then people would accept it. Garages with a remarkably high percentage of satisfied customers would stand out and attract customers. What would become more important are reports of how the garage resolves customer complaints.
An inspector is different because he is looking at a number of cars that have nothing significant wrong. Only a few will have significant defects. Let’s assume that 95% of cars are basically good. The owners are selling for ‘genuine reasons’ such as trading up, asset liquidation, etc, etc.
Then assume the other 5% are an owner selling because they have found out the car is defective, making it uneconomical to repair. Or the owner is unaware of the problem.
Assume an inspector sees 100 cars, and spots 4 faulty, that’s not a failure rate of 1% His failure rate is 20%. He looked at 5 faulty cars and only correctly spotted 80%
However, if all 100 customers report on their satisfaction, it would incorrectly appear that 99% of customers were satisfied.
If an inspector failed to report a significant fault the customer would be unhappy. If the fault was then properly and promptly rectified, with costs covered by the warranty, the customer would be placated. What causes customers to keep posting their dissatisfaction is having a major expense immediately post purchase to rectify faults that were present when the inspection was carried out.
They are justifiably angry and wish others not to suffer the same fate. If an inspector has missed faults that could have potentially caused a road traffic accident, then they have endangered the life of the buyer, probably his wife and children and other road users in general.
The buyer may conclude that for public safety, the inspector has no right to the trust of those who are obtaining for a (supposedly) professional standard opinion.
Especially if he then finds a well respected TVR expert like James, who knows what’s wrong with your car, without you telling him, because he looked at the car before the inspector did, saw the faults and refused to buy it.
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