Role changed- negotiating pay review in Current Climate

[Charley Farley]

Hello,

I would appreciate a bit of advice. I have been with my current employer for 2 years now; coming in to run a challenging but strategically important part of the business that had been losing money. We are in the business of supplying major retailers with various products and I do not wish to say more for fear of incriminating myself. In that time, I have turned it around and for the first time since it started 5 years ago; we should at least break-even this financial year. In the same time, I have picked up c. £6m pa of new business including a totally new (albeit small) customer. However, it was quite cleaer that this role in the last 12 nmonths has not been enough to stimulate me and use up all of my time.

Then, in January, one of our department heads resigned and was marched off site. I was then asked to pick up 65% of his workload; involving commercial management of 2 totally new categories to me- whilst still carrying on with my previous job. I have not been promoted as such and remain as a senior manager (next level down from head). I know for a fact that the guy who left had a package 65% greater than mine. I asked at the time what would happen pay wise and was told that it would be reviewed after 3 months. I received a letter this morning informing me that my bonus will be increased by 5% (to 25% of salary); but that my salary will remain the same.

My commercial responsibility has increased from c. £7m to £25m. I have already succeeded in one new tender and led the launch on a full range of totally new branded products now listed with a very large retailer. I have already been told that I have achieved more in 3 months than the other guy achieved in 3 years. At the same time, my previous area of the business remains in the black. I am now working flat out and have already cancelled a holiday due to time constraints. I also must say that I am really enjoying the experience and opportunities.

However, I do not wish to sound ungrateful; especially in the current financial climate, but I feel that this 5% gesture is kind of taking the p*ss...

Any tips on how I should take this up with my employers whilst not appearing l;ike a spoilt brat would be much appreciated?

Sorry to ramble on!!!

Charlie

[Charley Farley]

Oops! Meant to post in the Lounge... How do I move this?

Thanks

Charlie

[mat205125]

Charley Farley said:

Oops! Meant to post in the Lounge... How do I move this?

Thanks

Charlie

Obviously lacking that last 2% of attention to detail ... Think yourself lucky

[jimmyb]

Ummm no idea. WHy not calling a meeting with your most senior manager and take into the meeting all the info you have on what you have achieved so far and the details of how much bigger your workload became and point out that politely that whilst you do not expect to be paid the other chaps salary on top of yours since you are now doing his role as well as your original would they not feel it is more reasonable to pay you in line with what he was recieving.

Also is there noit some sort of contract of law being broken by having you take over another role without a new contract?

[Cathar]

The big question is, can you live better without them than they can without you? Then you can ask for more.

If you are not prepared to leave, you have to be much more careful.

Edited by Cathar on Tuesday 12th May 16:49

[RobCrezz]

Get a meeting with your bosses, make sure you have all these points noted down and bring them up. Ask them to reconsider a pay review.

[ben d]

I think it's worth a shout, but just be careful how you phrase it in case they want to play hardball. I was advised by an employment lawyer recently that in today's economic climate pay cuts or a deterioration of terms and conditions are unlikely to be grounds for constructive dismissal. As a result, standing still with greater responsibility might be seen as a step up.

[XMES RUS]

Give your boss a PH login and ask him to read your post.
Good luck fella.

[jimmyb]

Cathar said:

The big question is, can you live better without them than they can without you? Then you can ask for more.

If you are not prepared to leave, you have to be much more careful.

Edited by Cathar on Tuesday 12th May 16:49

Actually a damn good point.

I am on long term contract. To get me to move to another company i would expect my salary to be doubled as i have it that good. I havent had a pay rise in donkeys but am not prepared to rock the boat my job is worth more than a pay rise to me at this point.

[ukwill]

The bloke you are comparing yourself to was a "Department Head". It sounds as if you are not. I would make that the focus of my next achievement, as it would appear to me that your Company have an easy out if you go to them asking for more money. Sounds like strict payscales?

[Charley Farley]

ukwill said:

The bloke you are comparing yourself to was a "Department Head". It sounds as if you are not. I would make that the focus of my next achievement, as it would appear to me that your Company have an easy out if you go to them asking for more money. Sounds like strict payscales?

True- I am the next level down. However, when I was asked to take the extra responsibilities, I asked whether the company considered me to have the potential to become a 'head'. They said absolutely; and I asked to see the criteria and understand what was required.... I am still waiting. I chased it up again 2 months later and was told that they would prepare a plan for me...that was 6 weeks ago.

In terms of whether the company needs me; without sounding arrogant- I think they would struggle to fill all 3 rolesd in a hurry- there is a hell of a lot going on. However, I do genuinely enjoy it- but feel I am not receiving full rewards for my work.

What I do know is that if people want to get on in this business- the best way is to resign to go elsewhere... I know of a few people who have done this- only to be offered a rise and a promotion to stay. Personally this is not a game I wish to play as I believe in loyalty and that promotion / payrises should be deserved. Maybe I am being naieve?

[Neil_H]

Charley Farley said:

ukwill said:

The bloke you are comparing yourself to was a "Department Head". It sounds as if you are not. I would make that the focus of my next achievement, as it would appear to me that your Company have an easy out if you go to them asking for more money. Sounds like strict payscales?

True- I am the next level down. However, when I was asked to take the extra responsibilities, I asked whether the company considered me to have the potential to become a 'head'. They said absolutely; and I asked to see the criteria and understand what was required.... I am still waiting. I chased it up again 2 months later and was told that they would prepare a plan for me...that was 6 weeks ago.

In terms of whether the company needs me; without sounding arrogant- I think they would struggle to fill all 3 rolesd in a hurry- there is a hell of a lot going on. However, I do genuinely enjoy it- but feel I am not receiving full rewards for my work.

What I do know is that if people want to get on in this business- the best way is to resign to go elsewhere... I know of a few people who have done this- only to be offered a rise and a promotion to stay. Personally this is not a game I wish to play as I believe in loyalty and that promotion / payrises should be deserved. Maybe I am being naive?

I think you are. You're doing what you're doing now because it's convenient for them. If they thought you were right for the role of department head, you'd be department head already. What was discussed when you took the work? That would have been the time to negotiate really.

Have you got other irons in the fire? Are there a lot of similar jobs around? Would you be prepared to walk away if you don't get what you need? If the answer to any of these questions is no, they probably know that. So they string you along, you keep complaining, and the job still gets done.

Loook for a role you want elsewhere, apply, get an offer and then you'll be in a bargaining position.

[stackmonkey]

Charley Farley said:

What I do know is that if people want to get on in this business- the best way is to resign to go elsewhere... I know of a few people who have done this- only to be offered a rise and a promotion to stay. Personally this is not a game I wish to play as I believe in loyalty and that promotion / payrises should be deserved. Maybe I am being naieve?

I have only ever played that game from a point of view of already having an alternative job offer in place. Given the current climate I would make sure of an alternative job first..

[Goughie]

I would compare your role with salaries in other similar FMCG appointments being advertised as well as the improvements you have bought to your current business if you're going to ask for another pay review. I'm making a large assumption here, but on the little you've posted, I'd say your pay scale should be around £55-75K for the business size you look after (if in sales), with perhaps a six figure salary being your next step up (your old head of department's salary)? Check the Grocer for average wages in your field - it's pretty accurate in my experience.

Another route you could take is to have a chat with a friendly buyer or technologist at your retail customers to ask them to keep their ear to the ground for opportunities within the sector with other suppliers. It is is bit of a risk, but if you have a good enough personal relationship with said buyer/tech then it may lead to great opportunities - the staff at major multiples are all really ambitious themselves - they'll understand your desire to get a more rounded package (including pay) than you currently get.

FWIW, when I left my last job as an employee to set up my small consultancy (on very good terms I must add), I called a couple of retailer customers and because I had done a good job for them I now have some very secure, long term clients on the back of major retailer recommendations to their supply base. Good people really are hard to find - don't sell yourself short!

Good luck!

[Charley Farley]

Goughie said:

I would compare your role with salaries in other similar FMCG appointments being advertised as well as the improvements you have bought to your current business if you're going to ask for another pay review. I'm making a large assumption here, but on the little you've posted, I'd say your pay scale should be around £55-75K for the business size you look after (if in sales), with perhaps a six figure salary being your next step up (your old head of department's salary)? Check the Grocer for average wages in your field - it's pretty accurate in my experience.

Another route you could take is to have a chat with a friendly buyer or technologist at your retail customers to ask them to keep their ear to the ground for opportunities within the sector with other suppliers. It is is bit of a risk, but if you have a good enough personal relationship with said buyer/tech then it may lead to great opportunities - the staff at major multiples are all really ambitious themselves - they'll understand your desire to get a more rounded package (including pay) than you currently get.

FWIW, when I left my last job as an employee to set up my small consultancy (on very good terms I must add), I called a couple of retailer customers and because I had done a good job for them I now have some very secure, long term clients on the back of major retailer recommendations to their supply base. Good people really are hard to find - don't sell yourself short!

Good luck!

Goughie- I have e-mailed you.

Thanks

CF

[Goughie]

Charley Farley said:

Goughie said:

I would compare your role with salaries in other similar FMCG appointments being advertised as well as the improvements you have bought to your current business if you're going to ask for another pay review. I'm making a large assumption here, but on the little you've posted, I'd say your pay scale should be around £55-75K for the business size you look after (if in sales), with perhaps a six figure salary being your next step up (your old head of department's salary)? Check the Grocer for average wages in your field - it's pretty accurate in my experience.

Another route you could take is to have a chat with a friendly buyer or technologist at your retail customers to ask them to keep their ear to the ground for opportunities within the sector with other suppliers. It is is bit of a risk, but if you have a good enough personal relationship with said buyer/tech then it may lead to great opportunities - the staff at major multiples are all really ambitious themselves - they'll understand your desire to get a more rounded package (including pay) than you currently get.

FWIW, when I left my last job as an employee to set up my small consultancy (on very good terms I must add), I called a couple of retailer customers and because I had done a good job for them I now have some very secure, long term clients on the back of major retailer recommendations to their supply base. Good people really are hard to find - don't sell yourself short!

Good luck!

Goughie- I have e-mailed you.

Thanks

CF

And back at you CF