Exchange and Mart 2004 F1 Drivers Challenge
Discussion
jamesc said:
I coached last year's winner, Mark Johnston and I work with several of the finalists. The 2004 competition is very different from the first. The format has changed and it is now £10 instead of £5.50. Martin Stretton and Chris Snowdon are not doing the 2nd series and Tiff may not either. I have also heard there is no TV deal yet signed and the small print has changed. It has not been all sailing for the final 6.
Mark Johnston is struggling for money! Hopefully he may get a drive in the New Year; his management team have employed a top man to manage him.
Neil Purdie is doing Sports 2000 and has his sights set on Gt's.
Paul Hopkins is back mountain biking and looking at various one make racing series.
Peter Robinson has returned to the kit car championship.
Lars Sexton has been treated badly by the competition organisers because of his experience. Hopefully he may get the backing he deserves.
Jamie Morrow did a couple of F/Renault races for a 3rd rate team, a shame because he is a good racer and the drive did him no justice.
Neil Purdie will be at Brands Hatch this weekend in Britsports with Pistonheads on his car.
jamesc said:Another character from the first series, Stratton Mackay isn't looking to make it big, but I think that he will be racing next year. Met him at Donnington in September and he said that he will probably be in a Ginetta or a sports 2000 next year.
I coached last year's winner, Mark Johnston and I work with several of the finalists. The 2004 competition is very different from the first. The format has changed and it is now £10 instead of £5.50. Martin Stretton and Chris Snowdon are not doing the 2nd series and Tiff may not either. I have also heard there is no TV deal yet signed and the small print has changed. It has not been all sailing for the final 6.
Mark Johnston is struggling for money! Hopefully he may get a drive in the New Year; his management team have employed a top man to manage him.
Neil Purdie is doing Sports 2000 and has his sights set on Gt's.
Paul Hopkins is back mountain biking and looking at various one make racing series.
Peter Robinson has returned to the kit car championship.
Lars Sexton has been treated badly by the competition organisers because of his experience. Hopefully he may get the backing he deserves.
Jamie Morrow did a couple of F/Renault races for a 3rd rate team, a shame because he is a good racer and the drive did him no justice.
Neil Purdie will be at Brands Hatch this weekend in Britsports with Pistonheads on his car.
Mark however was told by the organisers that it was on condition he went to the gym and followed a programme of training layed down by Bernie. Mark did this and now has no problem with the fitness. In the second series people will once again get through on a sponsors word.
Neil Purdie will be racing in the Britsports race on Saturday 22nd Nov 03. Our car will have "Pistonheads" logos on it. Any PH readers (inc Stiggy) are welcome to come in our garage for a cup of tea.
James
Neil Purdie will be racing in the Britsports race on Saturday 22nd Nov 03. Our car will have "Pistonheads" logos on it. Any PH readers (inc Stiggy) are welcome to come in our garage for a cup of tea.
James
Unfortunately Stiggy, we don't live in an ideal world. Where it comes to motorsport, we are far from ideal. It would be particularly naive to assume that the best twenty drives in the world are currently spending every other Sunday afternoon during the season in an F1 car for instance. To make it in Motorsport, you need a lot of financial backing from sponsors, who can never see a return on investment unless something massive happens with their driver.
Can you imagine the pitch from a 17 year old:-
'I want to race in Formula Ford next year. Will you sponsor me please Mr Fat Cat. You can have your name all over the car, but thinking about it there isn't really much bodywork. And anyway, no one will see it as there is no TV coverage, and only about 5000 spectators come to the meets. There is some good news though, its cheap - £150k should do the year!
You can't really blame the sponsors from wielding influence whenever possible in order to bring their driver, and therefore their marketing oportunity to the fore.
The conclusion therefore has to be that the most important factor in becoming a successful race driver is excellent financial backing. Therefore, instead of failing a round, Mark was actually let through because he had the most important quality to get to the top - money behind him.
It is only unfortunate that it wasn't enough. He is still struggling for a race drive, a fact that is neither due to lack of fitness or lack of race pace.
Rich
Can you imagine the pitch from a 17 year old:-
'I want to race in Formula Ford next year. Will you sponsor me please Mr Fat Cat. You can have your name all over the car, but thinking about it there isn't really much bodywork. And anyway, no one will see it as there is no TV coverage, and only about 5000 spectators come to the meets. There is some good news though, its cheap - £150k should do the year!
You can't really blame the sponsors from wielding influence whenever possible in order to bring their driver, and therefore their marketing oportunity to the fore.
The conclusion therefore has to be that the most important factor in becoming a successful race driver is excellent financial backing. Therefore, instead of failing a round, Mark was actually let through because he had the most important quality to get to the top - money behind him.
It is only unfortunate that it wasn't enough. He is still struggling for a race drive, a fact that is neither due to lack of fitness or lack of race pace.
Rich
Stiggy
I don't know why you compare motor racing to athletics or football?
If a youngster wants to participate in either of those sports, he or she turns up at the local club with a pair of shoes and gets on with it. Or does it at school.
Stating the bleedin' obvious - to do the same in motor racing you need a race licence, helmet, suit, race entry fee, CAR, tyres, fuel, mechanical support etc etc etc.... Which all costs a bit more than your average pair of Nikes!
In what way is the sport 'commercialised' at grass roots level? The only commercial factor is that people need to find sponsors or benefactors to fund the costs above.
Mind you, I still fail to see why I have to pay entry fees of £400-£500 for a Tuscan Challenge race, when 30-40,000 punters turn up to watch. Especially as the poor bloody marshals etc are all unpaid volunteers. This bit is crazy.
I agree with you though, the attraction of the Find a F1 series (not that I actually saw a single programme) was to find a complete novice and give him or her a really good start in motor racing - let the talent shine through withouit being constrained by budget.
From the little I know about it, the support Mark has had from the management company that was part of the prize has been fairly ineffective.
Anyway, the sport (like all sports which cost lots to play) is and probably always will be, fairly elitist. You either need money, links to money, or be prepared to make huge personal sacrifices to race - and I don't see that changing. Why would it?
Andy
I don't know why you compare motor racing to athletics or football?
If a youngster wants to participate in either of those sports, he or she turns up at the local club with a pair of shoes and gets on with it. Or does it at school.
Stating the bleedin' obvious - to do the same in motor racing you need a race licence, helmet, suit, race entry fee, CAR, tyres, fuel, mechanical support etc etc etc.... Which all costs a bit more than your average pair of Nikes!
In what way is the sport 'commercialised' at grass roots level? The only commercial factor is that people need to find sponsors or benefactors to fund the costs above.
Mind you, I still fail to see why I have to pay entry fees of £400-£500 for a Tuscan Challenge race, when 30-40,000 punters turn up to watch. Especially as the poor bloody marshals etc are all unpaid volunteers. This bit is crazy.
I agree with you though, the attraction of the Find a F1 series (not that I actually saw a single programme) was to find a complete novice and give him or her a really good start in motor racing - let the talent shine through withouit being constrained by budget.
From the little I know about it, the support Mark has had from the management company that was part of the prize has been fairly ineffective.
Anyway, the sport (like all sports which cost lots to play) is and probably always will be, fairly elitist. You either need money, links to money, or be prepared to make huge personal sacrifices to race - and I don't see that changing. Why would it?
Andy
I got through the fitness test in last years competition under my own steam. I did so by training hard for a sustained period of time. However, I almost didn't make it - I tripped and fell in my shuttle run, and fell back. As it was, I caught up and I squeezed through, but if i hadn't? Would one of the sponsors have stepped in and got me through? I find it unlikely, given I'm just another man off the street to them.
On reading what you said on how Mark maanged to progress, I have to say, I was disappointed. I thought the competition was supposed to be fair in so far as people were to be judged under their own merits. As it is, it seems there are/were some 'special' people who have got a sponsors backing, and this helped them progress rather than their own ability. Whilst I understand sponsors have their own requirements, often in terms of age and marketability, I'm sure there were plenty of others who fitted the bill as well as Mark.
You could also go back to the argument about the competition bringing a man off the street to race, rather than someone who already has backing. Maybe Mark doesn't have financial backing, but he did seem to have other, important backing it seems.
In my fitness test, was a chunky Irish guy. He got knocked out of the test early. Turns out he annihilated everyone on the F1 simulator, so seems to have some driving talent at least. Why did Mark deserve the second chance over this guy, just as an example?
I guess this just grates at my old english ideas of fair play.
you do seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, regarding the series, jamesc. Care to elaborate?
On reading what you said on how Mark maanged to progress, I have to say, I was disappointed. I thought the competition was supposed to be fair in so far as people were to be judged under their own merits. As it is, it seems there are/were some 'special' people who have got a sponsors backing, and this helped them progress rather than their own ability. Whilst I understand sponsors have their own requirements, often in terms of age and marketability, I'm sure there were plenty of others who fitted the bill as well as Mark.
You could also go back to the argument about the competition bringing a man off the street to race, rather than someone who already has backing. Maybe Mark doesn't have financial backing, but he did seem to have other, important backing it seems.
In my fitness test, was a chunky Irish guy. He got knocked out of the test early. Turns out he annihilated everyone on the F1 simulator, so seems to have some driving talent at least. Why did Mark deserve the second chance over this guy, just as an example?
I guess this just grates at my old english ideas of fair play.
you do seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, regarding the series, jamesc. Care to elaborate?
Mr/Miss/Mrs Stiggy
Have you thought about the time the people got in the cars, 10 laps in a Formula Renault would cost at a track day!!???
£50 bloody quid it cost me, now think the lucky 12 got a run a modern FR, not just that 6 went to F3 something the majority will NEVER experiance!! Then 3 drove a piece of motor racing history!!!!!!!!
If you really do have a genuine interest in motorsport, you have such a screwed up opinion of the comp!!
EVery one of the 12 were there on merit! Mark had a sprained wrist prior to the 1st round, Neil Purdie who has really made the most of the competition. He finished 11th today in fiercly competative field with his co driver Andrew Webb.
If you had any idea of how much effort Tim and and the rest of SYW Ltd put in to the competition you would not make yourself look like a fool and anger many people!
My advice get to know the REAL facts or keep your opinions to yourself.
Richard
Have you thought about the time the people got in the cars, 10 laps in a Formula Renault would cost at a track day!!???
£50 bloody quid it cost me, now think the lucky 12 got a run a modern FR, not just that 6 went to F3 something the majority will NEVER experiance!! Then 3 drove a piece of motor racing history!!!!!!!!
If you really do have a genuine interest in motorsport, you have such a screwed up opinion of the comp!!
EVery one of the 12 were there on merit! Mark had a sprained wrist prior to the 1st round, Neil Purdie who has really made the most of the competition. He finished 11th today in fiercly competative field with his co driver Andrew Webb.
If you had any idea of how much effort Tim and and the rest of SYW Ltd put in to the competition you would not make yourself look like a fool and anger many people!
My advice get to know the REAL facts or keep your opinions to yourself.
Richard
Stiggy Baddos said:
Sorry,Richard.Ruffled some feathers,have I?You obviously think I don't really know what I'm going on about,I can assure you that I know a LOT more than I'm letting on!I'm not going to post some of that knowledge on a public forum,that would be unfair to the individuals involved.
I've already stated why I personally was dissapointed with how the F1 comp turned out.It didn't really do 'exactly what it says on the tin',to coin a phrase.I felt the real winner should have been Neil.Mark is an excellent driver,and showed he has massive potential.But Neil,for me,was the perfect candidate for that prize.
I am a true motorsport fan,does that mean I have to shut my face and accept everything I am told?I believe that would make me more of a fool than voicing my opinions,however unpopular those opinions may be.
I will be watching the next run of the F1 comp very closely,to see just which way the organizers go with it this time.
Stiggy,
True motorsport fans actually helped Neil over the weekend by volunteering to help run the car!
James
>> Edited by jamesc on Sunday 23 November 01:32
Stiggy Baddos said:
On a final note...imagine if you will that motorsport was as accessible as footie to todays youngsters.Would we see the UK's dilapidated racetracks looking so shabby if they were getting as much use as the football grounds?
No, that's down to the owners of each individual circuit to bring the standards up so people will go and visit them, whether that's through better prices or better deals on tickets, that's their business. If the former BHL or Octagon had spent some money earlier on places like Cadwell Park and Snetterton they would be nicer places to visit. The drains STILL smell at Snet on a raceday (have done for the last 13 years!) And Cadwell Park still looks like a circuit plucked straight out of the 70's!
Stiggy Baddos said:
Would all the boy/girl racers have a better knowledge of car control and road skills if they could readily take their modified motor onto a proper track instead of the high street or retail park?
No, that's complete drivel. All you'd see is more written off modified Corsa's and Citroen Saxo's embedded in tyre walls.
People need proper driver training, not just the chance to drive fast around an enclosed circuit. And if they had car control would that make them drive faster on the public roads becasue they know how to control a car better? Wouldn't that be worse? A better understanding and driving (pardon the expression) home the cause and aftermath of a serious road accident (death, injury, paralisation etc) because of recklessness or drinking and driving should be madatory. All new drivers should spend a couple of nights with a paramedic team or in an A & E dept to see what can happen when they
about like loonies on the road. {End of soapbox mode}
With regards to the F1 driver comp though. I actually agree with you. I watched all of about 20 seconds of the entire series but if someone was allowed through on the merit of a sponsor and not talent or fitness, then if I'd entered the competition I'd be asking for my £5.50 back as that is not fair to EVERYONE else who entered.
I work in motorsport, about as deeply as James does, but I still think that is a shit thing to do. If he wasn't fit enough he shouldn't have gone through. If he'd turned up to a proper test for a race team and couldn't perform at the highest level and set times because he wasn't fit he wouldn't get a season's racing, someone else who was more committed would!
>> Edited by Racefan_uk on Sunday 23 November 01:55
racingdick said:
Mr/Miss/Mrs Stiggy
Have you thought about the time the people got in the cars, 10 laps in a Formula Renault would cost at a track day!!???
£50 bloody quid it cost me, now think the lucky 12 got a run a modern FR, not just that 6 went to F3 something the majority will NEVER experiance!! Then 3 drove a piece of motor racing history!!!!!!!!
If you really do have a genuine interest in motorsport, you have such a screwed up opinion of the comp!!
EVery one of the 12 were there on merit! Mark had a sprained wrist prior to the 1st round, Neil Purdie who has really made the most of the competition. He finished 11th today in fiercly competative field with his co driver Andrew Webb.
If you had any idea of how much effort Tim and and the rest of SYW Ltd put in to the competition you would not make yourself look like a fool and anger many people!
My advice get to know the REAL facts or keep your opinions to yourself.
Richard
I don't really understand why this debate has deteriorated as it has.
A fair bit of what Stiggy says is true.
The competition rules were not strictly adhered to - understandably that sticks in the throat of some people. But at no stage has anyone on here had anything derogatory to say about Mark or any of the other finalists.
The competition has not really achieved its aims. Mark, as the winner, should by now have secured a funded single seater drive for 2004 if the competition achieved its aims.
Jamesc - you would presumably agree on this - after all, as I understand it, your management services are nothing to do with the prize Mark won. Wasn't it Jenson Button's management company who were supposed to be finding Mark a drive as part of the prize? The very fact that you are helping Mark out seems to point to failure by JB's team!
I don't recall Stiggy slagging off Jamesc's efforts, or Neil Purdie either - so its a bit odd why people are now slagging him off - or asking which drivers he is managing/funding etc...
A fair bit of what Stiggy says is true.
The competition rules were not strictly adhered to - understandably that sticks in the throat of some people. But at no stage has anyone on here had anything derogatory to say about Mark or any of the other finalists.
The competition has not really achieved its aims. Mark, as the winner, should by now have secured a funded single seater drive for 2004 if the competition achieved its aims.
Jamesc - you would presumably agree on this - after all, as I understand it, your management services are nothing to do with the prize Mark won. Wasn't it Jenson Button's management company who were supposed to be finding Mark a drive as part of the prize? The very fact that you are helping Mark out seems to point to failure by JB's team!
I don't recall Stiggy slagging off Jamesc's efforts, or Neil Purdie either - so its a bit odd why people are now slagging him off - or asking which drivers he is managing/funding etc...
I hope you are all happy now.I think it is a bit lame of one of you(Mr Speed???) to e-mail me threats of physical violence and electronic warfare.If you can't take criticism,then don't line yourself up for it.I apologise unreservedly to Neil P if I've caused him any bother,I would encourage anybody thinking of backing this guy to do so,and by removing my previous posts,I hope that THOSE PEOPLE WHO MATTER will see that I am a supporter of all that is great and good in motorsport.My views on the conduct of some UNNAMED persons will,however,stay the same.You say you can find me,go ahead.Bomb my PC if you must.It wont exactly raise my opinion of you.Nuff said.
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