Schnellerific Perfection Incarnate...
Discussion
It has finally happened: Roger Taylor may have been in love with his car - I have now melded with mine...
Having spent many moons wrestling with insurmountable brake issues, ye olde M5 was collected from Silverstone's premium purveyor of illicit, automotive Germania, replete with a stoppage capacity that finally, Von Fearns assured me with great enthusiasm, described the very paragon of retardant virtue.
Persistent main dealer diagnostic failure had resulted in uber Pork fettler Andreas Von Fearns getting to grips with a wheel bearing wilting under an advanced stage of disintegration.
Now, I want to put this in perspective: we had travelled down to Silverstone in the object of Andy's normal attention, the venerable X50 - a car which c/o his expert setup and maintenance - inhabits a realm of horizon haulage in a small but perfectly formed principality just outside the mediaeval city of Veyron-sur-Metzhimmel - so not exactly Trabantian ito thrape & pummel.
Indeed, prior to landing Chez Fearns and upon collecting the usual round of Kesselburgers from the requisite vendor, I had gazed back at the silver lozenge, finally rested in the carpark, gently ticking the tick of something bathing in the heat haze of it's own, recent participation in that which they want to stop, sighing in admiration at one of the great indomitable expressions of sublime uber hooning.
Ferrari this, yeah; Lambo that, sure but let's face it, only a Mad Pag or Ugly Bug could ever really best this immovable force in the all time pantheon of celestial wunderhuffage.
Now with a cockpit almost bereft of creak, rattle or squeak, it had come to represent the very essence of that automotive antidote to the modern condition of emasculatory dickweedism, as propgated by the mealy mouthed, automotive philistinia who roam, unchecked about this realm, complete with franchise yet bereft of squire that might righteously enforce their much needed return to parochial duties of a broadly agrarian variety.
So imagine my surprise when, as we meandered back north, I found myself in a state of barely controllable grace...
Of course, nothing serves up the kick of a spooling Hog-Heinkel entering battle but the effortless manner in which Bavaria's meisterwerk served up glorious globs of searing, muscular but oh-so smooth lunging forth was in it's own right immense; few cars exist which demand so rampant a spearing disregard for Polly Toynbee but here, in the perfectly damped apple of so many cognoscentis' collective, desiring eyes was such a vehicle.
I could barely contain my rapture at what happened next but as sub-light activity beckoned, anvil was exchanged for anchor and very much in the mode of a well kippered, 911 moorland fling, braking suddenly assumed a dimension as rewarding in effect as acceleration or cornering - in a heavy horse weighing in at 1800 kilos.
No trauma or wilt, no sugggestion of juddery pain, simply a solid, progressive hand of Odin to guide us back to the Fjord of Roskilde...
In the next hour, progress continued with the blessing of a divine wind: hereditary peerages intact and so ensued travel that encapsulated the unmatched ethos of this motoring master of all trades.
Somehow blending every aspect of petrolheaded celebration and concocting a menu of explotable delights like few others: practicality, general reliability, solidity, great speed, truly inexplicable handling, aesthetic effectiveness and bump and rebound defying damper rates bettering anything - any car to date - an absolute Godsend in rutted Albion, 2009.
There's such a beautifully weighted balance to all the controls, too and every input demands a very deliberate action to be rewarded with a predictable, almost lazy but fabulously forgiving outcome: the gearchange itself an action not seen since Henry Bessemer forced an urchin at rapier point to engage the warp drive on his fabulous convertor and morph iron into steel.
Transmogrification M5 style, is the other great party piece for the enlightened: wafting along is a lesson in pleasurable soporificism but at any given time, an inadvertent stretch of the right pin snarls things back to Nascar mode and you run deep, deep, deep into the realms of 'bahnic sanctification.
It is epic, truly so on a scale not witnessed since the pharaohs reigned supreme and once more I am bound by duty to exhalt it's glory - to commit it's ownership into your hands, dear PHer...
I know, I know, if the vanos goes... well, here's the thing: it probably won't but to scale these heights of sublime indulgence for so little...?
Get to it, before they become the wrecked cast aways of the unworthy.
Hail & Schnell!
Having spent many moons wrestling with insurmountable brake issues, ye olde M5 was collected from Silverstone's premium purveyor of illicit, automotive Germania, replete with a stoppage capacity that finally, Von Fearns assured me with great enthusiasm, described the very paragon of retardant virtue.
Persistent main dealer diagnostic failure had resulted in uber Pork fettler Andreas Von Fearns getting to grips with a wheel bearing wilting under an advanced stage of disintegration.
Now, I want to put this in perspective: we had travelled down to Silverstone in the object of Andy's normal attention, the venerable X50 - a car which c/o his expert setup and maintenance - inhabits a realm of horizon haulage in a small but perfectly formed principality just outside the mediaeval city of Veyron-sur-Metzhimmel - so not exactly Trabantian ito thrape & pummel.
Indeed, prior to landing Chez Fearns and upon collecting the usual round of Kesselburgers from the requisite vendor, I had gazed back at the silver lozenge, finally rested in the carpark, gently ticking the tick of something bathing in the heat haze of it's own, recent participation in that which they want to stop, sighing in admiration at one of the great indomitable expressions of sublime uber hooning.
Ferrari this, yeah; Lambo that, sure but let's face it, only a Mad Pag or Ugly Bug could ever really best this immovable force in the all time pantheon of celestial wunderhuffage.
Now with a cockpit almost bereft of creak, rattle or squeak, it had come to represent the very essence of that automotive antidote to the modern condition of emasculatory dickweedism, as propgated by the mealy mouthed, automotive philistinia who roam, unchecked about this realm, complete with franchise yet bereft of squire that might righteously enforce their much needed return to parochial duties of a broadly agrarian variety.
So imagine my surprise when, as we meandered back north, I found myself in a state of barely controllable grace...
Of course, nothing serves up the kick of a spooling Hog-Heinkel entering battle but the effortless manner in which Bavaria's meisterwerk served up glorious globs of searing, muscular but oh-so smooth lunging forth was in it's own right immense; few cars exist which demand so rampant a spearing disregard for Polly Toynbee but here, in the perfectly damped apple of so many cognoscentis' collective, desiring eyes was such a vehicle.
I could barely contain my rapture at what happened next but as sub-light activity beckoned, anvil was exchanged for anchor and very much in the mode of a well kippered, 911 moorland fling, braking suddenly assumed a dimension as rewarding in effect as acceleration or cornering - in a heavy horse weighing in at 1800 kilos.
No trauma or wilt, no sugggestion of juddery pain, simply a solid, progressive hand of Odin to guide us back to the Fjord of Roskilde...
In the next hour, progress continued with the blessing of a divine wind: hereditary peerages intact and so ensued travel that encapsulated the unmatched ethos of this motoring master of all trades.
Somehow blending every aspect of petrolheaded celebration and concocting a menu of explotable delights like few others: practicality, general reliability, solidity, great speed, truly inexplicable handling, aesthetic effectiveness and bump and rebound defying damper rates bettering anything - any car to date - an absolute Godsend in rutted Albion, 2009.
There's such a beautifully weighted balance to all the controls, too and every input demands a very deliberate action to be rewarded with a predictable, almost lazy but fabulously forgiving outcome: the gearchange itself an action not seen since Henry Bessemer forced an urchin at rapier point to engage the warp drive on his fabulous convertor and morph iron into steel.
Transmogrification M5 style, is the other great party piece for the enlightened: wafting along is a lesson in pleasurable soporificism but at any given time, an inadvertent stretch of the right pin snarls things back to Nascar mode and you run deep, deep, deep into the realms of 'bahnic sanctification.
It is epic, truly so on a scale not witnessed since the pharaohs reigned supreme and once more I am bound by duty to exhalt it's glory - to commit it's ownership into your hands, dear PHer...
I know, I know, if the vanos goes... well, here's the thing: it probably won't but to scale these heights of sublime indulgence for so little...?
Get to it, before they become the wrecked cast aways of the unworthy.
Hail & Schnell!
Finally. Good to hear the M5 is in top form again. With the number of visits to both main dealer and independent workshops you've made, plus the money you've spent, you deserve it. 
Problems with front axle wheel bearing disintegration noted for checking when the beastie next visits the workshop.
Problems with front axle wheel bearing disintegration noted for checking when the beastie next visits the workshop.
My dear fellow, the E39 may be many things, mostly too heavy, nose led and lacking that direct motorsport heritage but it is not an e34 M5. Unless your car has the scream of a straight six hitting 7,000rpm, EDC on sport, and the organic communications that only a hand built Garching M car can provide then you are driving a faxsimile of the real deal. The e39 is a great car but no drivers tool.
I cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
I cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
belleair302 said:
My dear fellow, the E39 may be many things, mostly too heavy, nose led and lacking that direct motorsport heritage but it is not an e34 M5. Unless your car has the scream of a straight six hitting 7,000rpm, EDC on sport, and the organic communications that only a hand built Garching M car can provide then you are driving a faxsimile of the real deal. The e39 is a great car but no drivers tool.
I cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
Disagree. Although I am slightly biased. And yes I have driven an E34 to the absolute limit.I cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
Agree. Seems to be a case of Gross F...ing Incompetence all around amongst both the main dealers and numerous independents. Good thing that Andy Fearns was able to look at it and sort it.
Should be nothing wrong with those brakes following the Fearns analysis and treatment. I've been thrashing the hell out if a similar system for 12k+ miles.
DAZ
Richard, wrt, my frames of reference are reasonably varied.
The E34 is a great car but your summation is outrageous and coloured by hopeless ownership bias.
The E39 batters the old car every which way but Sunday which is a conclusion based on 3 months' use of each car at least every other day, often twice in the same day.
There was not one aspect of the older car which was superior although I'll concede it's scream at peak and aesthetic were marginally preferable.
Nose heavy? Deary me - if there's one thing you couldn't accuse the E39 M5 of being it's that (ito a saloon car!)
The E34 is a great car but your summation is outrageous and coloured by hopeless ownership bias.
The E39 batters the old car every which way but Sunday which is a conclusion based on 3 months' use of each car at least every other day, often twice in the same day.
There was not one aspect of the older car which was superior although I'll concede it's scream at peak and aesthetic were marginally preferable.
Nose heavy? Deary me - if there's one thing you couldn't accuse the E39 M5 of being it's that (ito a saloon car!)
belleair302 said:
My dear fellow, the E39 may be many things, mostly too heavy, nose led and lacking that direct motorsport heritage but it is not an e34 M5. Unless your car has the scream of a straight six hitting 7,000rpm, EDC on sport, and the organic communications that only a hand built Garching M car can provide then you are driving a faxsimile of the real deal. The e39 is a great car but no drivers tool.
I cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
Take those rose tinted specs off sir, Yes that straight six scream is intoxicatingI cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
But that V8 makes a fair noise aswell especially when amplified by Mr Tubi
I've had the privelage of driving both extensively and in every situation the 39 beats the 34
IMO it's quite simply the best allround car ever made, I know that it's a wild statement
but I genuinely believe it
Dons flameproof suit to deflect the wrath of the E34 //M5 crew
Regards Gandalf...................
tdm34ds said:
belleair302 said:
My dear fellow, the E39 may be many things, mostly too heavy, nose led and lacking that direct motorsport heritage but it is not an e34 M5. Unless your car has the scream of a straight six hitting 7,000rpm, EDC on sport, and the organic communications that only a hand built Garching M car can provide then you are driving a faxsimile of the real deal. The e39 is a great car but no drivers tool.
I cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
Take those rose tinted specs off sir, Yes that straight six scream is intoxicatingI cannot understand why your specialists have missed the wheel bearing, maybe it is time to bring your car to Rickmansworth to where the best of the best work....'TOP GUN', for M cars.
I still think you need to get those brakes rebuilt, but am happy to know all is going well.
But that V8 makes a fair noise aswell especially when amplified by Mr Tubi
I've had the privelage of driving both extensively and in every situation the 39 beats the 34
IMO it's quite simply the best allround car ever made, I know that it's a wild statement
but I genuinely believe it
Dons flameproof suit to deflect the wrath of the E34 //M5 crew
Regards Gandalf...................
Just take a peek at the PerformanceCar review when they tested the complete line up of past and present ///M's.
I have enjoyed spirited drives in both cars, modified E39's and well set up E34's. Yes the E39 is a very quick car with a great engine, but output is not equal to enjoyment. Cars move people in different ways and if judging by the economy how much more will E39's fall in price, when E34's are climbing.
Also E34's have a better long distance range, are rarer and without the Tubi on the E39's sound way better.
If you want pure V8 speed yes the E39's are wonderful, if you want BMW character, history, something bespoke and often cherished with serious money spent then the E34 will be the car that history dictates is the better car. Even BMW GmbH Main Board members believe the E34 to be the best car they ever built....as published by the BMW Owners Club Magazine recently.
We all have our favourites but modern and faster is not always better, McLaren F1 vs Bugatti, E30 M3 Sport Evo vs V8 M3, Z3 Coupe vs Z4M!!
What do we want from our cars? It is a similar question to what do we like to eat, drink and listen to when driving....different strokes for differet folks.
B10 V8S would tick more of my boxes than an E39 M5, and I like the shape of the E34 M5 more than the E39...sorry!
Also E34's have a better long distance range, are rarer and without the Tubi on the E39's sound way better.
If you want pure V8 speed yes the E39's are wonderful, if you want BMW character, history, something bespoke and often cherished with serious money spent then the E34 will be the car that history dictates is the better car. Even BMW GmbH Main Board members believe the E34 to be the best car they ever built....as published by the BMW Owners Club Magazine recently.
We all have our favourites but modern and faster is not always better, McLaren F1 vs Bugatti, E30 M3 Sport Evo vs V8 M3, Z3 Coupe vs Z4M!!
What do we want from our cars? It is a similar question to what do we like to eat, drink and listen to when driving....different strokes for differet folks.
B10 V8S would tick more of my boxes than an E39 M5, and I like the shape of the E34 M5 more than the E39...sorry!
belleair302 said:
B10 V8S would tick more of my boxes than an E39 M5
Whoaah! I thought plough on understeer wasn't your bag! 
It really isn't just about speed differentials: your car on flattened anvil versus the offspring? Don't do the E34 car down: it is manically rapid on cam.
One of the great joys of the E39 M5 is pootling with the car cold: gently coaxing those relatively heavy duty gearchanges and allowing all the 'max attack from the off' TDI repmobiles to go flying off! Indeed, appreciation of the old girl in it's totality is reflected in this 'slow burn' effect - as it is with the E34 - time reveals depths of brilliance as you peel back the layers... Very much like a 911, come to think of it.
You might violently disagree with me, here, Ricardo but I recall quite a few B (in fact, C) road comparisons during which the effect of power/torque - weight ratio effects I felt to be not hugely dissimilar: indeed with DSC off, at the moment of traction break [T junction exit or low speed, 2nd gear booter] it was spooky how similar both cars felt.
In this regard, the blood line was maintained with great aplomb.
All that stuff about heritage and pedigree: ok, fair enough, indulge the placebo if you must but that's all it is because in fact there just isn't any physical scope for an honest conclusion which can avoid acknowledging the later car's superiority, albeit perhaps, not massively.
Thence to the Zodular Postulation: yes, the E60 M5 blitzes the old dears and if I had to have just one car, I probably would.
Of course, the 'box is a mixed blessing but as an ownership proposition, it's supreme glory would see me punt as expected but I honestly don't think it's as rounded as the E39. There's also a huge price differential...
Still, if only we'd 'done that deal' a while back, would I be so emphatic in conclusion?
I mean the RJC car is a diamond in what appears to be a rather rough sea...Rest assured, I will at some point follow your advice and contact Pheonix re all the shaft balancing, having long since passed the point where 'things were worth it.' There may be a soupcon of driveline shunt entering the equation...
(I've got to have something to be questing after!
) The advancement in technology is the issue here. The E34's and the 3.8 engine were going nowhere in 1994/5. the endo f the line for straight sixes was fast approaching.....just look at the 911's and air cooling. However as Audi keep telling us and many folk disagree Advancement through technology is not always the better driving option.
The e39 M5 is a wonderful car, well designed, with a gargantuan V8 up front...but does it have the heritage of M cars or did BMW change the playing field....the E39 was a move away from the e28,s and E34's into a new larger territory. No complaints here but as safety features improve, technology reigns and electronics dictate pace in all of todays cars....is there still room to actually drive and not be driven?
My E34 is in fine shape, underseal is going on this month and the lower panel respray will remove any gravel rash and autobahn peppering....roll on 'The Ring in May!!
Yes there are fewer E34 M5's as each week passes that are keepers but the few are now beginning to rise in value. Lots of dogs for £4K....a few rare truffles over £6K and the Stars of India (Diamonds) are still the LE's which are going for £8K or more.
A talk with Gerry or Simon @ Phoenix would be a good way to spend 15 minutes and to see what these guys can really do to help you get the most from the venerable beast.
The e39 M5 is a wonderful car, well designed, with a gargantuan V8 up front...but does it have the heritage of M cars or did BMW change the playing field....the E39 was a move away from the e28,s and E34's into a new larger territory. No complaints here but as safety features improve, technology reigns and electronics dictate pace in all of todays cars....is there still room to actually drive and not be driven?
My E34 is in fine shape, underseal is going on this month and the lower panel respray will remove any gravel rash and autobahn peppering....roll on 'The Ring in May!!
Yes there are fewer E34 M5's as each week passes that are keepers but the few are now beginning to rise in value. Lots of dogs for £4K....a few rare truffles over £6K and the Stars of India (Diamonds) are still the LE's which are going for £8K or more.
A talk with Gerry or Simon @ Phoenix would be a good way to spend 15 minutes and to see what these guys can really do to help you get the most from the venerable beast.
Porscheplayer said:
That was about an M5?
I thought I'd gone back to ye olden times
derestrictor is our resident noun-nobbler, syntax-slayer and absurd-verber! It takes a while to get used to his strange combination of olde-English and pseudo-Deutsch!I thought I'd gone back to ye olden times
Edited by Deutscher on Wednesday 15th April 12:23
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff