Reliability of performance machinery
Discussion
Rant mode: on.
Why oh why do we put up with crap reliability of our performance machines?
Car or bike, it's the same story. Leave it outside without a cover for a few weeks - won't start. Looks manky. Something leaks in (water). Or out! (oil)
Ordinary cars can go months of outside abuse, and start first time. Brakes don't sieze, engines don't blow smoke. Ordinary (boring) cars can do 100,000 miles no problem, maybe double that.
Panel fit of mass produced cars is pretty good, and paint finish reasonable. Hi-po kit seems to have iffy finish (or easily damaged), unmatchable paint codes, you name it!
(slight exaggeration for the hell of it)
So why do bikes and sports cars have these problems?
More to the point, why do we put up with it?!!!!!!
When are the manufacturers going to start building these things to a higher standard?
Grrrrrr!
Rant mode: off.
Ahh, that's better.
Why oh why do we put up with crap reliability of our performance machines?
Car or bike, it's the same story. Leave it outside without a cover for a few weeks - won't start. Looks manky. Something leaks in (water). Or out! (oil)
Ordinary cars can go months of outside abuse, and start first time. Brakes don't sieze, engines don't blow smoke. Ordinary (boring) cars can do 100,000 miles no problem, maybe double that.
Panel fit of mass produced cars is pretty good, and paint finish reasonable. Hi-po kit seems to have iffy finish (or easily damaged), unmatchable paint codes, you name it!
(slight exaggeration for the hell of it) So why do bikes and sports cars have these problems?
More to the point, why do we put up with it?!!!!!!
When are the manufacturers going to start building these things to a higher standard?
Grrrrrr!
Rant mode: off.
Ahh, that's better.
I have had quite a few performance bikes and never had any problems with the bikes at all they just run and run no matter how you abuse them ,cars thats another story the 430se was troublesome and my Maserati normally needed something doing although usually minor things , i think it just go`s with the territory .
So wazz upp with your new bike then Hurt
So wazz upp with your new bike then Hurt
nope, nothing's up with the new one !
Just a general criticism of exotic vehicles. If you don't run a bike, you won't know that if you ride through winter, the finish suffers badly, the brakes tend to seize up (exposed calipers). The fork seals go, and the engine looks grotty. Oh, and the chain stretches and the sprockets wear out.
I was reading stuff in general on PH, and it seemed like you all suffer from some of the following complaints at various times;-
leaking roof
leaking doors
oil leaks
poor starting
poor running in traffic
crap aircon
fading paint
The comparision between perf Bike, and perf Car seems very close. Yet I pointed out that a "normal" car doesn't suffer any of this.
And so I was wondering WHY we put up with it?
Just a general criticism of exotic vehicles. If you don't run a bike, you won't know that if you ride through winter, the finish suffers badly, the brakes tend to seize up (exposed calipers). The fork seals go, and the engine looks grotty. Oh, and the chain stretches and the sprockets wear out.
I was reading stuff in general on PH, and it seemed like you all suffer from some of the following complaints at various times;-
leaking roof
leaking doors
oil leaks
poor starting
poor running in traffic
crap aircon
fading paint
The comparision between perf Bike, and perf Car seems very close. Yet I pointed out that a "normal" car doesn't suffer any of this.
And so I was wondering WHY we put up with it?
quote:
Just a general criticism of exotic vehicles. If you don't run a bike, you won't know that if you ride through winter, the finish suffers badly, the brakes tend to seize up (exposed calipers). The fork seals go, and the engine looks grotty. Oh, and the chain stretches and the sprockets wear out.
leaking roof
leaking doors
oil leaks
poor starting
poor running in traffic
crap aircon
fading paint
The comparision between perf Bike, and perf Car seems very close. Yet I pointed out that a "normal" car doesn't suffer any of this.
And so I was wondering WHY we put up with it?
sprokets and chain are just wear and tear and they have improved very much over the years , OK the Jap bikes alloy bits do corode a bit , re the points like leaking roof my Jag has none of the prolems like that and runs like a dream , ok its not a raw sports car but it fast as hell and is built like a
I don't mean to be rude, Mr. Hertsbiker, but have you ever tried to build a performance bike or car yourself? Picture this: getting the most out of an engine means hotter spark, higher compression, higher fuel/intake pressures, etc. Infact, most racing engines only last for a few races before needing to be totally taken down, let alone driven for 100K mi.
Now picture this: You want a lighter body, that means using composites, which are difficult to paint, (without adding weight), mainly because they are made of string and glue, all of which expands and contracts at different rates.
Then there is the fact that all these products are made in low volumes, so robotic construction techniques are not justified to the accountants.
You may buy a Ferrari if cost is no object, they have nice paint, and often go as much as 50K without a major service. Or you could buy a Porsche, if you need to buy groceries in your sportscar.
Now picture this: You want a lighter body, that means using composites, which are difficult to paint, (without adding weight), mainly because they are made of string and glue, all of which expands and contracts at different rates.
Then there is the fact that all these products are made in low volumes, so robotic construction techniques are not justified to the accountants.
You may buy a Ferrari if cost is no object, they have nice paint, and often go as much as 50K without a major service. Or you could buy a Porsche, if you need to buy groceries in your sportscar.
quote:
I thought it was glass fibres and resin. Must be a new construction technique. Is it also true that the top formula one teams are now using a composite of mud based adhesive and a special fibrous staw?
That's meant to be a secret - it's being developed by BAR as a useful side product of the bullshit the've been spouting for the last few years about winning races.....
alrich: ok, the engines and suspension are stressed, but the bodywork and fittings are not. But I get the point about hi-po engines.
My Thunderace (1002cc, 145bhp) suffered loss of 3rd gear, 4 clutches, one head gasket in 18,000 miles. 2 warped disks. And obviously more tyres than you could shake a stick at.
18K miles? outrageous! almost unforgivable rates of wear & tear. Alright, I admit I was a bit of a thrasher, but never on a cold engine. And I always used the clutch when I changed gear.
My Thunderace (1002cc, 145bhp) suffered loss of 3rd gear, 4 clutches, one head gasket in 18,000 miles. 2 warped disks. And obviously more tyres than you could shake a stick at.
18K miles? outrageous! almost unforgivable rates of wear & tear. Alright, I admit I was a bit of a thrasher, but never on a cold engine. And I always used the clutch when I changed gear.
Hmm - my 3.2 litre, normally aspirated, 321bhp engine is totally reliable. And high performance by anyone's standards.
It needs an oil change about every 10,000 miles and a bit of fettling every 30,000 miles or so (tappet adjustment). But otherwise no attention required.
It always starts first time, it doesn't throw a strop if it gets a bit warm in traffic and it doesn't mind if I go away on holiday for a couple of weeks and don't drive it. It also doesn't mind sitting out in the cold and damp...
This all might have something to do with the fact that its a BMW M3 engine rather than an old Buick lump stuck in a low volume, ladder framed thing with a plastic shell...
(am currently selling said BMW engined vehicle for plastic ladder buick type thing...- I need something that will break down more often and give me an excuse to spend more time tinkering in the garage
)
It needs an oil change about every 10,000 miles and a bit of fettling every 30,000 miles or so (tappet adjustment). But otherwise no attention required.
It always starts first time, it doesn't throw a strop if it gets a bit warm in traffic and it doesn't mind if I go away on holiday for a couple of weeks and don't drive it. It also doesn't mind sitting out in the cold and damp...
This all might have something to do with the fact that its a BMW M3 engine rather than an old Buick lump stuck in a low volume, ladder framed thing with a plastic shell...
(am currently selling said BMW engined vehicle for plastic ladder buick type thing...- I need something that will break down more often and give me an excuse to spend more time tinkering in the garage
)'83 mk1 golf GTi, sat on me drive untouched since June. I was just about to put the jump leads on from the mondeo so's I could move it & thought "I'll just give it a go" - bugger me if it didn't start after 10 secs or so!
Leave the Griff in the garage for 3 weeks without the battery conditioner plugged in, turn key - CLICK.
Leave the Griff in the garage for 3 weeks without the battery conditioner plugged in, turn key - CLICK.
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