Discussion
It's always the way isn't it?
After weeks of perfect running the moment the missus sits in the passenger seat we have problems!
I admit it's not her fault but why does this happen?
Last night I changed the air filter, checked levels and run a rag over the engine etc to tidy up a bit.
This morning I drove to petrol station to fill up and then 10 miles later it starts misfiring.I checked for loose leads etc but couldn't find any
I limped home past my local garage ~ they were rushed off their feet but they did have time to have a quick look under bonnet. They were unable to see anything obvious.
The misfire only occurs when under load ~ ie. when going along. I can rev it up when sitting still with no problems.
Garage suggested wet coil or high tension problem. ( very misty and damp here when we set off)
There's a smell of petrol in the air when misfiring and it did backfire once or twice.
Apart from checking for loose leads for the tenth time what else should I check?
I imagine that I knocked something, pushed something out of place.
My immobiliser has a broken case and may be fragile inside ~ could it be that?
Could dust/debris have got into the system when the air filter was changed?
Any tips would be appreciated
Cheers
Tim
After weeks of perfect running the moment the missus sits in the passenger seat we have problems!
I admit it's not her fault but why does this happen?
Last night I changed the air filter, checked levels and run a rag over the engine etc to tidy up a bit.
This morning I drove to petrol station to fill up and then 10 miles later it starts misfiring.I checked for loose leads etc but couldn't find any
I limped home past my local garage ~ they were rushed off their feet but they did have time to have a quick look under bonnet. They were unable to see anything obvious.
The misfire only occurs when under load ~ ie. when going along. I can rev it up when sitting still with no problems.
Garage suggested wet coil or high tension problem. ( very misty and damp here when we set off)
There's a smell of petrol in the air when misfiring and it did backfire once or twice.
Apart from checking for loose leads for the tenth time what else should I check?
I imagine that I knocked something, pushed something out of place.
My immobiliser has a broken case and may be fragile inside ~ could it be that?
Could dust/debris have got into the system when the air filter was changed?
Any tips would be appreciated
Cheers
Tim
Could be one of your HT leads breaking down they have a finite life. I had one do the same and I got intermittent misfires especially under load. If you disturbed when cleaning with the rag this could explain the misfire the core of the cable breakdown over time. It's reasonably cheap to replace. The smell of petrol would be consistent with a misfire.
Edited by TVRMadPaul on Friday 20th March 15:05
Hey Tim that'll teach you to clean the old girl !
Could be the leads as said already or maybe the plugs - you havent got a loose/broken one have you?
Dissy cap and Rotor arm are worth looking at. dissy hasnt moved has it ?
loose connection on coil ?
connection on module on side of dissy clean and tight ?
and dont forget that bloody pipe from the Throttle Pot to the Fuel Regulator
If you changed your filter, you didnt by any chance poke anything into the AFM and damage a sensor did you ? might be over-fuelling if its damaged ?
Connectors on side of AFM ?
I know what you mean about it happening when the missus is there... been there done that etc etc ...
Lets know how you get on... I'm stuffed for time this weekend otherwise I would have been coming over... maybe sunday if you dont get it sorted by then,,, ?
K
Could be the leads as said already or maybe the plugs - you havent got a loose/broken one have you?
Dissy cap and Rotor arm are worth looking at. dissy hasnt moved has it ?
loose connection on coil ?
connection on module on side of dissy clean and tight ?
and dont forget that bloody pipe from the Throttle Pot to the Fuel Regulator
If you changed your filter, you didnt by any chance poke anything into the AFM and damage a sensor did you ? might be over-fuelling if its damaged ?
Connectors on side of AFM ?
I know what you mean about it happening when the missus is there... been there done that etc etc ...
Lets know how you get on... I'm stuffed for time this weekend otherwise I would have been coming over... maybe sunday if you dont get it sorted by then,,, ?
K
Take a look in here as well Tim...
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm
from the useful links Wiki...
K
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm
from the useful links Wiki...
K
Hi Kev
Yes ,we made it up High Cup Nick.
Weather on Saturday not quite as good as Friday but certainly no complaints.
Nice roads ~ shame it was in the pug406 rather than the Tiv!
I hear that you drove the same road yesterday (the Langwathby ~ Whitfield bit anyway. It is great isn't it? I was up there on Tuesday when the Tiv was working fine. Home ~Alston~ Garrigill~Nent~ Slaggyford~ Halty.)
Not had a chance to even so much as open the garage door! I'll look at it this week.
I'll keep you posted.
Yes ,we made it up High Cup Nick.
Weather on Saturday not quite as good as Friday but certainly no complaints.
Nice roads ~ shame it was in the pug406 rather than the Tiv!
I hear that you drove the same road yesterday (the Langwathby ~ Whitfield bit anyway. It is great isn't it? I was up there on Tuesday when the Tiv was working fine. Home ~Alston~ Garrigill~Nent~ Slaggyford~ Halty.)
Not had a chance to even so much as open the garage door! I'll look at it this week.
I'll keep you posted.
I've spent a little time on the car but with no joy. Still having problems.
I've changed the coil, throttle pot and AFMs.
I've put the old air filter back on.
Dissy cap looks ok inside to my untrained eye.
I've checked and rechecked all leads and hose connections and they all seem to be OK.
The leads were changed less than 2 years ago so are pretty new anyway.
The servo is not the best ~ how would I check it?
When sitting still I can rev the car up with no problems.
When driving it misfires and then will 'back fire' ~ there is a smell of petrol.
Any ideas as what to try next?
Cheers
Tim
I've changed the coil, throttle pot and AFMs.
I've put the old air filter back on.
Dissy cap looks ok inside to my untrained eye.
I've checked and rechecked all leads and hose connections and they all seem to be OK.
The leads were changed less than 2 years ago so are pretty new anyway.
The servo is not the best ~ how would I check it?
When sitting still I can rev the car up with no problems.
When driving it misfires and then will 'back fire' ~ there is a smell of petrol.
Any ideas as what to try next?
Cheers
Tim
Just a thought but could it be a fuelling issue.
You mentioned filling her up, may be some debris from the fuel tank as got into the system.
At Idle its not drawing enough fuel for it to be a problem.
Might be worth a change of fuel filter and drain the lines?
Dizzy caps and rotor arms can look fine but sometimes arent'
Had a scirocco that used to cut out, spend some good money at a VW garage with new leads, new valve this and that, gave up, took it to a backstreet specialist, changed the rotor arm and didn't charge me a penny, car never missed a beat again!
Good luck
Mike
You mentioned filling her up, may be some debris from the fuel tank as got into the system.
At Idle its not drawing enough fuel for it to be a problem.
Might be worth a change of fuel filter and drain the lines?
Dizzy caps and rotor arms can look fine but sometimes arent'
Had a scirocco that used to cut out, spend some good money at a VW garage with new leads, new valve this and that, gave up, took it to a backstreet specialist, changed the rotor arm and didn't charge me a penny, car never missed a beat again!
Good luck
Mike
Elfit said:
I've spent a little time on the car but with no joy. Still having problems.
I've changed the coil, throttle pot and AFMs.
I've put the old air filter back on.
Dissy cap looks ok inside to my untrained eye.
I've checked and rechecked all leads and hose connections and they all seem to be OK.
The leads were changed less than 2 years ago so are pretty new anyway.
The servo is not the best ~ how would I check it?
When sitting still I can rev the car up with no problems.
When driving it misfires and then will 'back fire' ~ there is a smell of petrol.
Any ideas as what to try next?
Cheers
Tim
Join the club Tim I've changed the coil, throttle pot and AFMs.
I've put the old air filter back on.
Dissy cap looks ok inside to my untrained eye.
I've checked and rechecked all leads and hose connections and they all seem to be OK.
The leads were changed less than 2 years ago so are pretty new anyway.
The servo is not the best ~ how would I check it?
When sitting still I can rev the car up with no problems.
When driving it misfires and then will 'back fire' ~ there is a smell of petrol.
Any ideas as what to try next?
Cheers
Tim
Your problem sounds very similar to mine.
Idles fine but hesitates and stutters at low revs. Have you noticed a drop in power, my acceleration is similar to that of a ford fiesta at the minute.
Does it smell like its running rich out the exhausts?
I'm seriously starting to hate my old girl at the moment. I'm going to have the ECU checked as my next port of call, i'll let you know how I get on.
Adrian
Thanks for your advice boys.
I've had a lot of fuel based problems in the past which I thought I'd sorted by renovating the tank. I now have a full tank of petrol which will make draining a bit of a logistical problem ~ Kev are you about? ~ Do you have any empty Jerry cans I could borrow?
I have a spare dissy cap so will try that too.
A question about air.
If some dirt or a flake of paint fell into the AFM whilst I was changing the filter and got sucked up into the system what would be the outcome? How would it be cured?
On changing the AFMs I noticed that the front plate was rusty and the paint was flaking ~ maybe some dirt was picked up..
Cheers
Tim
I've had a lot of fuel based problems in the past which I thought I'd sorted by renovating the tank. I now have a full tank of petrol which will make draining a bit of a logistical problem ~ Kev are you about? ~ Do you have any empty Jerry cans I could borrow?
I have a spare dissy cap so will try that too.
A question about air.
If some dirt or a flake of paint fell into the AFM whilst I was changing the filter and got sucked up into the system what would be the outcome? How would it be cured?
On changing the AFMs I noticed that the front plate was rusty and the paint was flaking ~ maybe some dirt was picked up..
Cheers
Tim
Elfit said:
~ Kev are you about? ~ Do you have any empty Jerry cans I could borrow?
yes I'm "about" 150 miles south of you until thursday mate I could empty two cans of fuel into the Mrs Mini and you could take them if you like, but you would need to collect them I'm afraid. I might be able to rustle up a jerry can or two from a mate but they had diesel in them... Elfit said:
A question about air.
If some dirt or a flake of paint fell into the AFM whilst I was changing the filter and got sucked up into the system what would be the outcome? How would it be cured?
On changing the AFMs I noticed that the front plate was rusty and the paint was flaking ~ maybe some dirt was picked up..
Cheers
Tim
Any cack that got sucked past the AFM's would just go direct past the intake valve and get spat out on the exhaust stroke providing it was not huge and didnt get stuck anywhere so I doubt if that would be your ongoing problem.If some dirt or a flake of paint fell into the AFM whilst I was changing the filter and got sucked up into the system what would be the outcome? How would it be cured?
On changing the AFMs I noticed that the front plate was rusty and the paint was flaking ~ maybe some dirt was picked up..
Cheers
Tim
regarding your servo, do your brakes feel a bit wooden ? can you hear any wheezing (apart from your own from the effort of course) near the servo? with the car stationary you cold detatch the vacuum tube from the plenum and just plug it to cut the servo out of the equation, but I dont know how you then test the old girl at speed (the new by-pass perhaps ?)
let me know about the cans eh ?
K
Have you looked at the plugs or better still replaced them? If the gap is wrong you can get a misfire under load. I'd also check the timing but you need to place it into service mode to do it properly. Dizzy cap would also be up there along with plug leads.
Is it worth faffing around getting no where when for a few quid you could replace the dizzy, plugs and leads and at leats rule them out. Also get a fault code reader (£10) to see what if there are any faults recorded plus that will allow you to place it into service mode.
Is it worth faffing around getting no where when for a few quid you could replace the dizzy, plugs and leads and at leats rule them out. Also get a fault code reader (£10) to see what if there are any faults recorded plus that will allow you to place it into service mode.
Tim,
Although you say you have changed the TP - have you changed with one of the ones I loaned you at BNG ( can you remember how many ) as I said at the time I am not certain that they are all OK so try a couple - when I had misfiring probs a while back I traced it to the servo being holed on the bottom and the only reason I discovered this was at idle if I pressed on the brake the idle speed changed ever so slightly I then took the servo off which looked pretty much ok and it literaly fell apart in my hands - I have also had misfiring probs in the past which turned out to be merely the timing being out which I reset in the old fashioned way with a strobe gun and has run perfect since.
I agree with the above that don't be fooled that just coz the rotor arm / dizzy cap etc look ok that they are - they are cheap to replace and will need replacing periodically enyway.
Best of luck and if all else fails you will just have to learn how to use that wizzbang diagnostic machine of mine and then show me and Kev.
Graham
Although you say you have changed the TP - have you changed with one of the ones I loaned you at BNG ( can you remember how many ) as I said at the time I am not certain that they are all OK so try a couple - when I had misfiring probs a while back I traced it to the servo being holed on the bottom and the only reason I discovered this was at idle if I pressed on the brake the idle speed changed ever so slightly I then took the servo off which looked pretty much ok and it literaly fell apart in my hands - I have also had misfiring probs in the past which turned out to be merely the timing being out which I reset in the old fashioned way with a strobe gun and has run perfect since.
I agree with the above that don't be fooled that just coz the rotor arm / dizzy cap etc look ok that they are - they are cheap to replace and will need replacing periodically enyway.
Best of luck and if all else fails you will just have to learn how to use that wizzbang diagnostic machine of mine and then show me and Kev.
Graham
Hi Graham. The TP is a new one I bought last year and has been in the car when it has been working fine so I doubt it's that.
Thanks for all the stuff you/Kev lent me before ~ Coil/afm's/Tp's/ dissy cap it's good to be able to use them as substitutes.
Just been outside again and pressed brake whilst idling ~ no change. Brakes feel fine whilst driving so I'll presume it's not the servo at the moment (but will need changing before too long).
I have some new spark plugs here NGK BCPR6ES.
This site http://www.powersparks.co.uk/ngkcarpages/TVR.htm ( found by googling) suggests a gap of 0.7mm would you agree?
I will try a different dissy cap too.
Kev~ I may take you up on the offer of the Jerry cans ~ I'll have a word up at the farm first to see if they have anything. Collecting them is not a problem ~ I'll contact you well in advance.
Whilst I have Kev's timing gun here I feel it's beyond me. I've never done it before, or even watched anyone do it, so the chances of me messing it up and making matters worse are pretty high!
That leaves the wizzbang machine! I think I'll go and open a tin of beer and see if I can fathom out what the hell the instructions are talking about.
Cheers
Tim
Thanks for all the stuff you/Kev lent me before ~ Coil/afm's/Tp's/ dissy cap it's good to be able to use them as substitutes.
Just been outside again and pressed brake whilst idling ~ no change. Brakes feel fine whilst driving so I'll presume it's not the servo at the moment (but will need changing before too long).
I have some new spark plugs here NGK BCPR6ES.
This site http://www.powersparks.co.uk/ngkcarpages/TVR.htm ( found by googling) suggests a gap of 0.7mm would you agree?
I will try a different dissy cap too.
Kev~ I may take you up on the offer of the Jerry cans ~ I'll have a word up at the farm first to see if they have anything. Collecting them is not a problem ~ I'll contact you well in advance.
Whilst I have Kev's timing gun here I feel it's beyond me. I've never done it before, or even watched anyone do it, so the chances of me messing it up and making matters worse are pretty high!
That leaves the wizzbang machine! I think I'll go and open a tin of beer and see if I can fathom out what the hell the instructions are talking about.
Cheers
Tim
Just to summarise; you have what your describing as a misfire and lack of power,
you have tested/checked the;
primary ignition system
secondary ignition system
tps
if ecu related some further suggestions would be.....
do you have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust that could be reading wrong, adjusting the mixture? if you dont have or its ok
have you tested the air flow sensor (vane type) for correct operation? if you have (think you mentioned you've changed the afm's) and its ok
test the coolant temperature sensor for within range of resistance.
the last two have the largest effect on the ecu the afs is the main engine load sensor and the cts is the main correction factor.
If the sensors are reading correctly when tested, have you checked that the signals are getting from and then back to the ecu.
if you are worried about a paint chip causing a blockage in the inlet manifold you could do a compression test on the cylinders to ensure good valve seals.
let us know if we can tick any of the above off the list.
Bil
you have tested/checked the;
primary ignition system
secondary ignition system
tps
if ecu related some further suggestions would be.....
do you have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust that could be reading wrong, adjusting the mixture? if you dont have or its ok
have you tested the air flow sensor (vane type) for correct operation? if you have (think you mentioned you've changed the afm's) and its ok
test the coolant temperature sensor for within range of resistance.
the last two have the largest effect on the ecu the afs is the main engine load sensor and the cts is the main correction factor.
If the sensors are reading correctly when tested, have you checked that the signals are getting from and then back to the ecu.
if you are worried about a paint chip causing a blockage in the inlet manifold you could do a compression test on the cylinders to ensure good valve seals.
let us know if we can tick any of the above off the list.
Bil
Hi Tim
the collection was only required while I'm down here mate, once I'm back I'll be happy to deliver them...
I would also be happy to help you reset your timing if we can get together over easter, but I'm away for most of the weekend dammit !
I know you have discounted the servo but it would still be worth disconnecting and plugging it to eliminate it.
you'll get there mate, dont worry
K
the collection was only required while I'm down here mate, once I'm back I'll be happy to deliver them...
I would also be happy to help you reset your timing if we can get together over easter, but I'm away for most of the weekend dammit !
I know you have discounted the servo but it would still be worth disconnecting and plugging it to eliminate it.
you'll get there mate, dont worry
K
Another thing that's really worth checking and cleaning - all of the sensors (throttle pot, AFM, coolant temp, and the idle speed control valve) are connected to the ecu via a loom that runs along the V on top of the right hand rocker cover. There is a big connector under the coil, that can collect moisture and muck.
Although the sensors themselves might be reading within range, if you have any significant resistance or voltage drop in that connector, the ecu receives a different signal from what the sensor is putting out, and merry hell ensues.
Worth taking that connector apart and checking it's clean.
Although the sensors themselves might be reading within range, if you have any significant resistance or voltage drop in that connector, the ecu receives a different signal from what the sensor is putting out, and merry hell ensues.
Worth taking that connector apart and checking it's clean.
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