Government waste and beaurocracy
Discussion
I was summoned to a parents meeting at one of my kids' 6th Form Colleges tonight - along with 700 other parents. It was about student loans and grants. I have never heard anything quite so complicated in my entire life. And they say they've simplified the system. A few examples:
You have to apply online;
Even if you're not eligible for a grant and don't want a loan, you still have to apply;
If the student doesn't have a passport number then send the original birth certificate in the post (but don't expect to get it back because many get lost);
An extraordinary amount of form-filling online is required (of which most of the info they already have);
It took an hour and a half to explain the internet site, because tonight it crashed all the time;
I have come away with reams of (non-sensical) papers;
They gave us all a free pen and a ruler in the pack - but you can only apply online?
And if you're unfortunate enough to have to be means-tested I can't even begin to explain the pain you're gonna suffer by the time they've finished with you!
You have to apply online;
Even if you're not eligible for a grant and don't want a loan, you still have to apply;
If the student doesn't have a passport number then send the original birth certificate in the post (but don't expect to get it back because many get lost);
An extraordinary amount of form-filling online is required (of which most of the info they already have);
It took an hour and a half to explain the internet site, because tonight it crashed all the time;
I have come away with reams of (non-sensical) papers;
They gave us all a free pen and a ruler in the pack - but you can only apply online?
And if you're unfortunate enough to have to be means-tested I can't even begin to explain the pain you're gonna suffer by the time they've finished with you!
Wait till they start paying it back...
SLC know how much you owed at the beginning of the year, but not how much you've paid since then.
HMRC know how much you've paid, but not how much you owe...
There is one magical moment where in theory the SLC knows both how much you owe and how much you've paid, except in reality it takes them six months to process the information from HMRC and another three months to actually do something about it.
SLC know how much you owed at the beginning of the year, but not how much you've paid since then.
HMRC know how much you've paid, but not how much you owe...
There is one magical moment where in theory the SLC knows both how much you owe and how much you've paid, except in reality it takes them six months to process the information from HMRC and another three months to actually do something about it.
This is why I think we should stop means testing benefits.
Give everyone over 18 a basic payment. All you have to do is exist and have lived in the UK for the last three years.
This replaces pension, housing benefit, family credit, maternity pay, sick pay, child benefit, mobility allowance and student grants.
Just think of the savings in paper work alone!
When I filled in some forms for my elderly mother in law I waded through 80 pages of forms to claim a few allowances.
Means testing seems reasonable until you actually experience the reality. Senile old ladies being given 80 page forms, couples divorcing so they can pretend to be single, squanderers rewarded, savers forced to spend their savings before getting exactly the same as if they'd squandered, benefit traps, endless red tape imposed on the most vulnerable and needy, huge taxpayer funded departments ticking boxes and stamping forms.
Give everyone over 18 a basic payment. All you have to do is exist and have lived in the UK for the last three years.
This replaces pension, housing benefit, family credit, maternity pay, sick pay, child benefit, mobility allowance and student grants.
Just think of the savings in paper work alone!
When I filled in some forms for my elderly mother in law I waded through 80 pages of forms to claim a few allowances.
Means testing seems reasonable until you actually experience the reality. Senile old ladies being given 80 page forms, couples divorcing so they can pretend to be single, squanderers rewarded, savers forced to spend their savings before getting exactly the same as if they'd squandered, benefit traps, endless red tape imposed on the most vulnerable and needy, huge taxpayer funded departments ticking boxes and stamping forms.
srebbe64 said:
It took an hour and a half to explain the internet site, because tonight it crashed all the time;
I'll bet thats because about 2000 schools all held the same presentation on the same night. The degree to which no one in any position of power seems to have any clue scares me. I don't have children myself but I am relying on future generations to support me and the current level of incompetence across the entire education system concerns me greatly. 
hmmmm tickers and stampers (or civil servants as they prefer to be called) have no interest in education, public opinion, or indeed actually getting the job done. Their priorities are.
1. Not breaking the rules
2. Not being shouted at by senior tickers and stampers
3. Not having to reply to a letter from politicians
4 Making sure they get their full entitlement to training and development which is essential when you hate the actual work you do.
5. Calculating their index linked pension and looking for ways of getting early retirement
6. Seeking attachment to Quangos in order to get promotion beyond the realms of possibility if you remain in the civil service
7. Once you are seconded looking for a redundancy payment with a guaranteed return to the civil service
8. Getting involved in specifying bespoke IT systems (when in reality sage will do the job just fine) in order to keep software companies in work and also to make maximum use of the huge ammount of money which would otherwise go to waste on more way to 5 co-ordinators.
9. Maintaining civil service manning levels of 400 people for every job
10. Trying to get a gong such as an OBE etc...
1. Not breaking the rules
2. Not being shouted at by senior tickers and stampers
3. Not having to reply to a letter from politicians
4 Making sure they get their full entitlement to training and development which is essential when you hate the actual work you do.
5. Calculating their index linked pension and looking for ways of getting early retirement
6. Seeking attachment to Quangos in order to get promotion beyond the realms of possibility if you remain in the civil service
7. Once you are seconded looking for a redundancy payment with a guaranteed return to the civil service
8. Getting involved in specifying bespoke IT systems (when in reality sage will do the job just fine) in order to keep software companies in work and also to make maximum use of the huge ammount of money which would otherwise go to waste on more way to 5 co-ordinators.
9. Maintaining civil service manning levels of 400 people for every job
10. Trying to get a gong such as an OBE etc...
nonegreen said:
hmmmm tickers and stampers (or civil servants as they prefer to be called) have no interest in education, public opinion, or indeed actually getting the job done. Their priorities are.
1. Not breaking the rules
2. Not being shouted at by senior tickers and stampers
3. Not having to reply to a letter from politicians
4 Making sure they get their full entitlement to training and development which is essential when you hate the actual work you do.
5. Calculating their index linked pension and looking for ways of getting early retirement
6. Seeking attachment to Quangos in order to get promotion beyond the realms of possibility if you remain in the civil service
7. Once you are seconded looking for a redundancy payment with a guaranteed return to the civil service
8. Getting involved in specifying bespoke IT systems (when in reality sage will do the job just fine) in order to keep software companies in work and also to make maximum use of the huge ammount of money which would otherwise go to waste on more way to 5 co-ordinators.
9. Maintaining civil service manning levels of 400 people for every job
10. Trying to get a gong such as an OBE etc...
And don't forget that these people have the vote, and don't vote for Christmas 1. Not breaking the rules
2. Not being shouted at by senior tickers and stampers
3. Not having to reply to a letter from politicians
4 Making sure they get their full entitlement to training and development which is essential when you hate the actual work you do.
5. Calculating their index linked pension and looking for ways of getting early retirement
6. Seeking attachment to Quangos in order to get promotion beyond the realms of possibility if you remain in the civil service
7. Once you are seconded looking for a redundancy payment with a guaranteed return to the civil service
8. Getting involved in specifying bespoke IT systems (when in reality sage will do the job just fine) in order to keep software companies in work and also to make maximum use of the huge ammount of money which would otherwise go to waste on more way to 5 co-ordinators.
9. Maintaining civil service manning levels of 400 people for every job
10. Trying to get a gong such as an OBE etc...
Sorry, WHY do you HAVE to fill in anything and provide personal information if you are not applying? Tell them to feck off until they can show you the legislation which says you are required to fill in this s**t.
Anything the Govt is involved is becomes a waste. I was told by an NHS consultant the other day that they wanted to produce paper leaflets to tell them to turn off their PC monitors. Because he hates the greenies he did the calculations and determined that to produce and distribute the leaflets would create a bigger "carbon footprint" than leaving the monitors on standby for 10 years. He produced a spreadsheet with the data on it, and provided it to the Green is Good department. Can you guess what they did?
ETA - I forgot another part of it. The cost of producing the leaflets was 30% higher than the cost of leaving the monitors on standby for 10 years (they have super efficient monitors he said, all nice new ones too).
Anything the Govt is involved is becomes a waste. I was told by an NHS consultant the other day that they wanted to produce paper leaflets to tell them to turn off their PC monitors. Because he hates the greenies he did the calculations and determined that to produce and distribute the leaflets would create a bigger "carbon footprint" than leaving the monitors on standby for 10 years. He produced a spreadsheet with the data on it, and provided it to the Green is Good department. Can you guess what they did?
ETA - I forgot another part of it. The cost of producing the leaflets was 30% higher than the cost of leaving the monitors on standby for 10 years (they have super efficient monitors he said, all nice new ones too).
Edited by Jasandjules on Thursday 12th March 08:01
Jasandjules said:
Sorry, WHY do you HAVE to fill in anything and provide personal information if you are not applying? Tell them to feck off until they can show you the legislation which says you are required to fill in this s**t.
Apparently, if you don't fill them all in then you are assumed to be a foreign national, who has been in the country for less than three years, and charged university fees of £20k+ pa. And, as mentioned previously, virtually all the data is already in the education system anyway! Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff