Welsh Rally GB vs Old style RAC debate.
Discussion
Marcus Gronholm (the Finn who never blinks) forced to retire due to hitting a log when ditch hooking on a left hander. Front left suspension and wheel stuffed into the back of the wheel arch and jammed. Tyre worn through and car while still more or less controllable completely illegal.
Hence Welsh police did not allow him to drive like this for 20 miles on public roads to the next service point. Fair enough IMO, it was a right mess.
But in my day there would have been a service van nearby who could have cobbled something up so he could continue, but this excuse for an event we have today prevents that.
More facts; this event has 18 stages totalling only 235 miles.
The last time I did the RAC we had five days, two nights out of bed, over 70 stages, just six of these added up to more than 50% of the total mileage of this years's event. We even had families out at 2 and 3 am in little Borders villages spectating on road sections.
Of course today's vehicles may be going physically quicker due to advances in engineering and tyres. That still doesn't mean to say that in years gone by we also weren't right on the ragged edge.
I for one would like to see a return to the old style event covering more of the country.
Interested to hear all points for and against.
>>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 7th November 21:40
Hence Welsh police did not allow him to drive like this for 20 miles on public roads to the next service point. Fair enough IMO, it was a right mess.
But in my day there would have been a service van nearby who could have cobbled something up so he could continue, but this excuse for an event we have today prevents that.
More facts; this event has 18 stages totalling only 235 miles.
The last time I did the RAC we had five days, two nights out of bed, over 70 stages, just six of these added up to more than 50% of the total mileage of this years's event. We even had families out at 2 and 3 am in little Borders villages spectating on road sections.
Of course today's vehicles may be going physically quicker due to advances in engineering and tyres. That still doesn't mean to say that in years gone by we also weren't right on the ragged edge.
I for one would like to see a return to the old style event covering more of the country.
Interested to hear all points for and against.
>>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 7th November 21:40
I guess shorter events means that more cars finish which makes the leader-board more competetive (and given that all events are similar in this way) the championship is more competetive too.
Also longer stages and events mean more cost to the teams. Therefore, to keep a reasonable number of entrants they need to limit the mileage.
That said, I preferred longer days and more of them.
Also longer stages and events mean more cost to the teams. Therefore, to keep a reasonable number of entrants they need to limit the mileage.
That said, I preferred longer days and more of them.
"new" WRC rallies are rubbish. the problem is WRC and FIA want uniformity across the world championship calender. eg every rally starts on a thursday and finshes on a sunday. i can see the logic but its very dull. They also want a central point for the rally, GB has Cardiff etc. The sad fact is the lack of distance they travel. At best the winner of this years rally will have done four hours of competitive driving. wow! 
I have cycled through most of the Lake District and places like Keilder Forest are amazing, It would be great to see cars like that through proper forests. It would also mean the forests and the surrounding roads were not full of traffic as northern rally fans could watch stages up there.
I also get annoyed when they use the same stage twice in one day. Whats the point?, the road gets mashed and people crash!. Its all about money, I wont go to the Rally GB becuase its £30 and you would be hard pushed to see the top fifty cars at two stages due to the time spent travelling and in traffic jams. Hence they run a stage twice and people stay there.
Rally of great Britain my arse, they should call it the Rally of a small part of Wales. It wouldnt be so bad if they went north up to Snowdonia and areas round there but they dont. its crap now. no night stages either, everyone tucked up in bed by nine. stages should start at five am and continue to ten pm. ah well, lets continue to support the national/regional championships....
I have cycled through most of the Lake District and places like Keilder Forest are amazing, It would be great to see cars like that through proper forests. It would also mean the forests and the surrounding roads were not full of traffic as northern rally fans could watch stages up there. I also get annoyed when they use the same stage twice in one day. Whats the point?, the road gets mashed and people crash!. Its all about money, I wont go to the Rally GB becuase its £30 and you would be hard pushed to see the top fifty cars at two stages due to the time spent travelling and in traffic jams. Hence they run a stage twice and people stay there.
Rally of great Britain my arse, they should call it the Rally of a small part of Wales. It wouldnt be so bad if they went north up to Snowdonia and areas round there but they dont. its crap now. no night stages either, everyone tucked up in bed by nine. stages should start at five am and continue to ten pm. ah well, lets continue to support the national/regional championships....
I noticed that Loeb refered to Rally GB as the RAC, in a short interview after Catalunya.
But yeah, it's nothing like the old event, is it? That used to be a real celebration of motorsport, IMO. The whole country would be out, watching it.
Having said that, I still think it's a man's event relative to the other rounds. Great in car pictures today, I thought.
I can understand the FIA wanting to move the event from being the last one, due to its lottery nature, but I understand it will be in June, did I hear right? It should at least be the first event after the Monte, so you keep the unpredictable weather.
But yeah, it's nothing like the old event, is it? That used to be a real celebration of motorsport, IMO. The whole country would be out, watching it.
Having said that, I still think it's a man's event relative to the other rounds. Great in car pictures today, I thought.
I can understand the FIA wanting to move the event from being the last one, due to its lottery nature, but I understand it will be in June, did I hear right? It should at least be the first event after the Monte, so you keep the unpredictable weather.
Remember The 6R4 mania when TP took on the likes of Marku Allen, Ari, Walter and the rest?
This event is a joke compared to those days.
OK so they didn't always "sprint" every stage but that was the craft of the sport then, knowing when to push (your opponents) and when to spare the car.
cheers
MoJo
This event is a joke compared to those days.
OK so they didn't always "sprint" every stage but that was the craft of the sport then, knowing when to push (your opponents) and when to spare the car.
cheers
MoJo
Making the event compact in some respects is a good thing, rallying realy works on tv (thats if c4 could be bothered to promote it and stick to one time slot) and this helps the tv coverage. Outside broadcast of such a big event is not cheap or easy.
But re-using stages is not a good idea and I have to agree that they have gone to far with the downsizing of the events. Its still great to watch far superior to F1 or any other motorsport IMO but I worry that meddling from the the FIA could ruin the sport. This may actualy be there intention anyway as they may see it as threat to thier beloved F1.
But re-using stages is not a good idea and I have to agree that they have gone to far with the downsizing of the events. Its still great to watch far superior to F1 or any other motorsport IMO but I worry that meddling from the the FIA could ruin the sport. This may actualy be there intention anyway as they may see it as threat to thier beloved F1.
Don't like this new Wales rally at all. I used to go out and watch stages of the RAC all over the shop - Oulton Park special stage, Kielder was awesome at night. Used to watct the staring special stages at the country house on the TV too - great stuff.
Didn't even bother to watch any of this rally on the TV. Seems the FIA walk in and sanitise any motorsport they can get their hands on. Ruined BPR GT and ruined rally too.
All IMHO of course.
Roop
PS : Dead right - Tony Pond was a hero.
Didn't even bother to watch any of this rally on the TV. Seems the FIA walk in and sanitise any motorsport they can get their hands on. Ruined BPR GT and ruined rally too.
All IMHO of course.
Roop
PS : Dead right - Tony Pond was a hero.
interloper said:
Making the event compact in some respects is a good thing, rallying realy works on tv (thats if c4 could be bothered to promote it and stick to one time slot) and this helps the tv coverage. Outside broadcast of such a big event is not cheap or easy.
Didn't I see somewhere that the FIA are supposed to be investigating C4 for the timeslots that they've been giving to the whole championship?
Hope they are made to bring it forward because whilst I love watching the sport, even in it's diluted form, sometimes I just don't have the energy left to stay up until 1am. I know I could video it, but it just doesn't seem the same. All IMHO.
wrc is for the playstation generation of drivers and spectators.
dull cars crammed into a small space so dull people can go and see dull drivers on dull stages.
give them all cars that are real pigs to drive then you will see who has the tallent,richard burns? he gave up this year cos his seat wasnt in the right place(near the fire)or someone at peugeot told him not to let his own tyres down.
look back to the days of old where beer drinking cigarette smoking meat eating men with facial hair drove at mad speeds for 3 days without sleep and without pace notes and after 5 days of ruffing it the winner would drink the champane on the podium while smoking a pack of rothmans then take the dolly bird off the finnish ramp and go to a casino to get pissed with james hunt and george best.
happy happy days indeed
dull cars crammed into a small space so dull people can go and see dull drivers on dull stages.
give them all cars that are real pigs to drive then you will see who has the tallent,richard burns? he gave up this year cos his seat wasnt in the right place(near the fire)or someone at peugeot told him not to let his own tyres down.
look back to the days of old where beer drinking cigarette smoking meat eating men with facial hair drove at mad speeds for 3 days without sleep and without pace notes and after 5 days of ruffing it the winner would drink the champane on the podium while smoking a pack of rothmans then take the dolly bird off the finnish ramp and go to a casino to get pissed with james hunt and george best.
happy happy days indeed
Put me down for the preferred RAC to WRC camp...
Maybe the newly propsed Roger Albert Clark (RAC) Rally will have more of our kind of thing in it.....
Trouble is in the same way the premiership has dominated over lower division football, with all of a sudden no lower teams getting a look in (at least i think it has, cos i don't watch it!
), WRC presides of the lower Group cars.
Its all you ever see on TV now. WRC has to fight to stay top of the pile and somehow manages to pull all the punches with regards ruling, venues and TV rights. When i was a kid, ok the big boys got the main press, but because RAC was so long you got to see the lower classes/younger drivers etc, good bit of publicity for them IMO.
Too many middle managment people in FIA probaly deciding what we would *really* like to see
Would be good if we could organise a real Rally GB - like the proposed RAC - which WRC could do but which don't count for their points. Run it as well as Rally GB. However would they do it, or would teams be 'scared'?
Maybe the newly propsed Roger Albert Clark (RAC) Rally will have more of our kind of thing in it.....
Trouble is in the same way the premiership has dominated over lower division football, with all of a sudden no lower teams getting a look in (at least i think it has, cos i don't watch it!
), WRC presides of the lower Group cars. Its all you ever see on TV now. WRC has to fight to stay top of the pile and somehow manages to pull all the punches with regards ruling, venues and TV rights. When i was a kid, ok the big boys got the main press, but because RAC was so long you got to see the lower classes/younger drivers etc, good bit of publicity for them IMO.
Too many middle managment people in FIA probaly deciding what we would *really* like to see
Would be good if we could organise a real Rally GB - like the proposed RAC - which WRC could do but which don't count for their points. Run it as well as Rally GB. However would they do it, or would teams be 'scared'?
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