Two nuclear subs collide in Atlantic

[john_p]

No serious repercussions though
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7892294.stm

I hope they were on some sort of exercise together, I'd have thought the chances of two subs hitting each other in the Atlantic are pretty slim

[Semi hemi]

"Our defence correspondent said the submarines were both "seriously-armed".

Surely thats a quote from the French Correspondent

[jkennyd]

Semi hemi said:

"Our defence correspondent said the submarines were both "seriously-armed".

Surely thats a quote from the French Correspondent

I would say 16 missiles at 35 tons each and each with 6 warheads with a range of 5000 miles pretty much seriously armed

[hornetrider]

Semi hemi said:

"Our defence correspondent said the submarines were both "seriously-armed".

Surely thats a quote from the French Correspondent

I believe he was just pissing by the door when he made that comment

[fathomfive]

The Daily Mash said:

AA WARNS MOTORISTS TO WATCH OUT FOR BADLY DRIVEN SUBMARINES
"What you're looking for is an enormous black metal tube, 150m long with French number plates," says spokesman

[Chainguy]

I love the 'senior Naval source' quoted here.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090216/tuk-nuclear-su...

Utter bks. No Naval source would say that, not even a bloody O.M. (modern day able seaman) never mind someone further up the chain. Because the whole 'radioactive leak' thing is utter hoop.

In other words, they asked who in the office had watch 'The hunt for red october' and got them to make something up

[Silent1]

jkennyd said:

Semi hemi said:

"Our defence correspondent said the submarines were both "seriously-armed".

Surely thats a quote from the French Correspondent

I would say 16 missiles at 35 tons each and each with 6 warheads with a range of 5000 miles pretty much seriously armed

[shouldbworking]

You have to wonder how that happened. Surely even in a wargame you wouldnt have 2 ssbns hunting each other, thats a fast attack boats job?

Plus I find it hard to believe that boats that have been around that long (12 years for the french boat and 17 years for vanguard) dont have some some form of recognisable sonar signature.

[MK4 Slowride]

Didn't one of Enlgands WW1 subs with a big gun on deck hit the bow of a Dutch ships and sink. Only recently been located in the last few years.


Also on the subject of sinking ships etc there must be at least 1 wreck site where a ship/sub has sunk and landed on top of another already sunk vessel?

[speedchick]

Subs are supposed to be undetactable, so I guess that bit works!

[jmorgan]

So they were both quiet about their business?

I understand they don't exactly go around announcing their position.

Completely unrelated but OUCH!

Link to one that hit a mountain

Hope no one was hurt btw.

[rhinochopig]

shouldbworking said:

You have to wonder how that happened. Surely even in a wargame you wouldnt have 2 ssbns hunting each other, thats a fast attack boats job?

Plus I find it hard to believe that boats that have been around that long (12 years for the french boat and 17 years for vanguard) dont have some some form of recognisable sonar signature.

That's because they are very very quiet. They're whole raison d'etre is be sneaky. Underwater is actually very noisy, and noise doesn't travel as well as you may think, for example it bounces off thermoclines.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 16th February 11:02

[ALawson]

I read somewhere that the French sonar dome at the bow was damaged so it has either T-Boned the British boat, crept up on it from the rear or a glancing bow. I would have though that a head on collision would have benn picked up on the other side of the Atlantic!

[FourWheelDrift]

speedchick said:

Subs are supposed to be undetactable, so I guess that bit works!

BBC said:

Despite being equipped with sonar, it seems neither vessel spotted the other

Either the sonar doesn't work then or they have invented an almost undetectable caterpillar drive.

"I shee no shubmarine"

[youngsyr]

rhinochopig said:

shouldbworking said:

You have to wonder how that happened. Surely even in a wargame you wouldnt have 2 ssbns hunting each other, thats a fast attack boats job?

Plus I find it hard to believe that boats that have been around that long (12 years for the french boat and 17 years for vanguard) dont have some some form of recognisable sonar signature.

That's because they are very very quiet. They're whole raison d'etre is be sneaky. Underwater is actually very noisy, and noise doesn't travel as well as you may think, for example it bounces off thermoclines.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 16th February 11:02

From reading The Hunt for Red October, don't subs have two types of sonar:

Passive - which is essentially just listening for noise. Obviously subs are designed to produce as little noise as possible, so this isn't that effective.

Active - The ping in the movies. The sub sends out a strong sound wave and the echoes that come back tell it what's out there. This is much better for finding out what's out there but obviously gives the game away that there's a sub in the area, possibly even giving its location away. For this reason its use is avoided if possible.

[Semi hemi]

Silent1 said:

jkennyd said:

Semi hemi said:

"Our defence correspondent said the submarines were both "seriously-armed".

Surely thats a quote from the French Correspondent

I would say 16 missiles at 35 tons each and each with 6 warheads with a range of 5000 miles pretty much seriously armed

[rhinochopig]

youngsyr said:

rhinochopig said:

shouldbworking said:

You have to wonder how that happened. Surely even in a wargame you wouldnt have 2 ssbns hunting each other, thats a fast attack boats job?

Plus I find it hard to believe that boats that have been around that long (12 years for the french boat and 17 years for vanguard) dont have some some form of recognisable sonar signature.

That's because they are very very quiet. They're whole raison d'etre is be sneaky. Underwater is actually very noisy, and noise doesn't travel as well as you may think, for example it bounces off thermoclines.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 16th February 11:02

From reading The Hunt for Red October, don't subs have two types of sonar:

Passive - which is essentially just listening for noise. Obviously subs are designed to produce as little noise as possible, so this isn't that effective.

Active - The ping in the movies. The sub sends out a strong sound wave and the echoes that come back tell it what's out there. This is much better for finding out what's out there but obviously gives the game away that there's a sub in the area, possibly even giving its location away. For this reason its use is avoided if possible.

Yes, but even sonar can bounce off a thermocline (thermal strata within the oceans / seas) thus hiding another sub.

Thing is, with the Russians, 'mirkins, Brits and French bimbling around hiding from each other, there was a sense of when, not if about this incident.

Same with link that someone made above regarding the US crash - it will happen occasionally. Imagine trying navigate blindfold using an OS map, using only speed and direction information whilst blindfolded. Would you be surprised if you bumped into a single tree that wasn't on the map?

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 16th February 11:14

[Badgerboy]

They are missle boats, they don't go around using their active sonar as it tends to let everyone know where they are. They will normally trundle around using the passive systems.

It's a good chance that they were playing with each other. If the French boat did T-Bone the Vanguard, it's possible it was shadowing it and the Brit boat turned into it. It wouldn't be the first time thats happened.

Regardless, not the cheapest accident to have, and it chops the UK's nuclear arsenal by a 1/4 technically. (Yes they only run 1 or 2 out at a time, but if things kicked off you'd want to deploy all your boats)

[Rude-boy]

john_p said:

in the Atlantic are pretty slim

Not that slim, they do a lot of hunting each other and sometimes sail very, very, close. This sort of thing is iirc, much less prevalent these days though. 20 years ago you most likely wouldn't have heard of this incident, or more likely not until 6 months after the event.

[Chainguy]

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.