Running Sport / Spyder with no Wing?
Discussion
Scotty-Boy said:
Has anyone run a Sport / Spyder without a rear wing? If so, how have they found it?
Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
A friend of mine tried it on his spider ultima(2nd one ever built) lost control on a bend at 40 mph and wrote the car off... he said if he had wing fitted it would never ever have let go as he normally took that corner at 70!!!!!!!!!!!
dom
suntiger1965 said:
Scotty-Boy said:
Has anyone run a Sport / Spyder without a rear wing? If so, how have they found it?
Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
A friend of mine tried it on his spider ultima(2nd one ever built) lost control on a bend at 40 mph and wrote the car off... he said if he had wing fitted it would never ever have let go as he normally took that corner at 70!!!!!!!!!!!
dom
Slinky said:
suntiger1965 said:
Scotty-Boy said:
Has anyone run a Sport / Spyder without a rear wing? If so, how have they found it?
Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
A friend of mine tried it on his spider ultima(2nd one ever built) lost control on a bend at 40 mph and wrote the car off... he said if he had wing fitted it would never ever have let go as he normally took that corner at 70!!!!!!!!!!!
dom
ive heard the same that they are very tail happy without a laaaarge wing
Gulf -LS7 said:
Slinky said:
suntiger1965 said:
Scotty-Boy said:
Has anyone run a Sport / Spyder without a rear wing? If so, how have they found it?
Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1Is that more rounded arse-end a problem?
A friend of mine tried it on his spider ultima(2nd one ever built) lost control on a bend at 40 mph and wrote the car off... he said if he had wing fitted it would never ever have let go as he normally took that corner at 70!!!!!!!!!!!
dom
ive heard the same that they are very tail happy without a laaaarge wing
If someone has empirical data to support its requirement in such low speed driving, I'll be happy to read it..
Slinky
Edited by Slinky on Saturday 17th January 20:11
738 driver said:
You can learn a bit about aeros flying a decent size kite...............a fair while before you get your driving licence!
True, but a kite is acting against a far lower mass than a wing on the back of a car...I'm not questioning the requirement of a wing on an ultima, I'm questioning the comment that a 40mph incident could have been avoided if a wing was fitted..
rdodger said:
I haven't got one (Ultima of any kind) but find it hard to believe that any size wing would have much aero effect at 40mph. I run a splitter and wing on my GTM Libra. I noticed no benefit below 70ish mph.
I am more than willing to be blinded with science though.
Have you seen the size of the early Ultima wing, it is huge.I am more than willing to be blinded with science though.
I don't have the science but have known for many years and from a number of sources that you do not take the wing off.
Some years back a customer took a recently purchased (second-hand) sport into the factory to ask them about changing the slipping clutch. A rpoad test was all they needed to confirm it was wheel spin because he had taken the wing off.
Steve
Dodger, there was a very basic explanation of aeros a couple of weeks ago. However, just consider putting your hand through the window of your motor at 10 mph...not much effect really.....now at 40mph.. quite a difference....and further increased effects at 80-100-150-200. If you consider the surface area of ones hand and the fact its not an optimum aerofoil section, these properties hardly compare with those of a large rear wing or the whole rear of a car... yet the basic hand aerofoil demonstrates the marked effects of even low-speed change. Hence the kite remark (was an easy short reply at 23.00 after a family party)....it wont fly without airflow...is okay at 10-30mph.....and can be quite challenging as airspeeds increase further.
Slink, you mentioned conditions, are the aerodynamics not part of a cars operating conditions?
You may rememeber the days of simple front engined, RWD cars and getting stuck in the snow? If you were accompanied you would have been fortunate enough to be able to ask the passenger(s) to sit in the rear..or even the boot/tailgate......usually this would contribute to your escape. Relatively speaking..only a very 'slight change' of weight distribution but it did the job!
I dont know the dynamics figures around the rear of the Ultima body or its spoiler/wing, nor have an immediate desire to find out but we must remember it has had proper tunnel testing and development to support its intended performance.
If anyone has doubts or interested in aerodynamics do a google search for Induced,Profile and Parasitic drag.....its fairly simple to follow.... if you consider all three around a cars profile...you will appreciate what nightmares a small design-change creates.
So could the removal of the said spoiler contribute to handling problems at low speed? Quite possibly yes when combined with all the other factors and forces that are experienced during cornering.
Slink, you mentioned conditions, are the aerodynamics not part of a cars operating conditions?
You may rememeber the days of simple front engined, RWD cars and getting stuck in the snow? If you were accompanied you would have been fortunate enough to be able to ask the passenger(s) to sit in the rear..or even the boot/tailgate......usually this would contribute to your escape. Relatively speaking..only a very 'slight change' of weight distribution but it did the job!
I dont know the dynamics figures around the rear of the Ultima body or its spoiler/wing, nor have an immediate desire to find out but we must remember it has had proper tunnel testing and development to support its intended performance.
If anyone has doubts or interested in aerodynamics do a google search for Induced,Profile and Parasitic drag.....its fairly simple to follow.... if you consider all three around a cars profile...you will appreciate what nightmares a small design-change creates.
So could the removal of the said spoiler contribute to handling problems at low speed? Quite possibly yes when combined with all the other factors and forces that are experienced during cornering.
Edited by 738 driver on Sunday 18th January 10:19
one personal experience was a couple of years ago driving on the continent, we wanted to see how fast it would go, as you do, so we found a straight bit of empty road (no limits in some parts of Germany) and hit our limiter. The spyder was 100% stable, totally solid. - It was in a straight line, and not for long..... bit scary at that speed for me, but the integral wing that I have seemed to do its bit. Not sure of the exact speed but the maths are 6,000 rpm in 5th G50 box, new tyres - which I believe gives me 29 mph per 1,000 revs - so more or less 175 mph. So seems to work up to that speed anyway.
the built in wing looks to me like an aircraft wing, so I guess must work even at fairly low speeds. I guess a lack of roof also ensures the air flows well over the wing. On the Ultima website it shows a spyder in the wind tunnel and clearly shows the wing effect.
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/spyder/
So I guess the factory has all the wind test data if your interested.
the built in wing looks to me like an aircraft wing, so I guess must work even at fairly low speeds. I guess a lack of roof also ensures the air flows well over the wing. On the Ultima website it shows a spyder in the wind tunnel and clearly shows the wing effect.
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/spyder/
So I guess the factory has all the wind test data if your interested.
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