IRL driver Tony Renna died in crash to-day.
Discussion
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http://motorsportsforum.com/contents/showthread.php?threadid=7829&postid=9552
The Indianapolis Star reports that Renna hit the third turn wall in a single car accident. Two different sources reported that Renna was taken to Methodist Hospital after the crash. No additional details are available at this time.
Firestone has been engaged in tire testing at Indy since yesterday. Team Penske and Target Chip Ganassi Racing are both involved in the Firestone tests.
Renna, who had just been hired by Target Chip Ganassi Racing to team with 2003 IndyCar champ Scott Dixon, had only one IndyCar start this season, starting 8th and finishing 7th in this year's Indy 500.
Prior to this season, the 26-year old Floridian had six IndyCar starts with Kelley Racing.
He began racing in quarter midgets and karts. Before moving to the Skip Barber Formula Ford series, he had earned more than 250 victories. He won the Barber championship and moved to Europe, competing in British Formula 3.
Following his tour overseas, Renna ran Barber Dodge Pro Series events and then the old Dayton Indy Lights Series.
http://motorsportsforum.com/contents/showthread.php?threadid=7829&postid=9552
The Indianapolis Star reports that Renna hit the third turn wall in a single car accident. Two different sources reported that Renna was taken to Methodist Hospital after the crash. No additional details are available at this time.
Firestone has been engaged in tire testing at Indy since yesterday. Team Penske and Target Chip Ganassi Racing are both involved in the Firestone tests.
Renna, who had just been hired by Target Chip Ganassi Racing to team with 2003 IndyCar champ Scott Dixon, had only one IndyCar start this season, starting 8th and finishing 7th in this year's Indy 500.
Prior to this season, the 26-year old Floridian had six IndyCar starts with Kelley Racing.
He began racing in quarter midgets and karts. Before moving to the Skip Barber Formula Ford series, he had earned more than 250 victories. He won the Barber championship and moved to Europe, competing in British Formula 3.
Following his tour overseas, Renna ran Barber Dodge Pro Series events and then the old Dayton Indy Lights Series.
I know this will sound a bit "Think of the children", but is anyone else beginning to have serious misgivings about the merits of open wheel oval racing at the speeds seen in the IRL, IPS, CART etc?
Surely this crash, as well as Brack's amazing escape and Mario's airbourne episode at IMS, should start casting serious doubt over the future of the IRL in it's current form? I enjoy watching the IRL, and it has some fantastically close racing, but the history of injury and now sadly fatal accidents the series (and the IPS feeder) has witnessed in a relatively short space of time needs to be addressed - as does the seeming "well, these things happen" attitude that seems prevalent in Stateside oval racing (witness waiting for the "Big One" every time NASCAR visits Talledega).
I would post this in another forum I visit, but unfortunately any criticism of the IRL there tends to quickly descend into political infighting, and I don't want that. This is not anti IRL in any way, but I don't want to see any more single seater cars flying into catch fencing at 220mph.
Surely this crash, as well as Brack's amazing escape and Mario's airbourne episode at IMS, should start casting serious doubt over the future of the IRL in it's current form? I enjoy watching the IRL, and it has some fantastically close racing, but the history of injury and now sadly fatal accidents the series (and the IPS feeder) has witnessed in a relatively short space of time needs to be addressed - as does the seeming "well, these things happen" attitude that seems prevalent in Stateside oval racing (witness waiting for the "Big One" every time NASCAR visits Talledega).
I would post this in another forum I visit, but unfortunately any criticism of the IRL there tends to quickly descend into political infighting, and I don't want that. This is not anti IRL in any way, but I don't want to see any more single seater cars flying into catch fencing at 220mph.
Oval racing is as much a part of American culture as superbowl sunday. The governing bodies will no doubt try to reduce the speed of the cars but as we have seen in F1, the designers merely come back with a way of making the cars go faster. This is not meant to sound as heartless as it will, but for every person tragically killed on a race circuit, there is someone else, all to well aware of the dangers they face, ready to get into the next car. In my opinion, the governing body will try to reduce speeds and the risk of accidents but they can not stop the desire of people to race cars.
Whilst cars are more likely to suffer serious damage at high speeds, a fatal crash can occur at low speed too though thankfully with the introduction of many safety features, a driver in a low speed crash is much more likely to walk away.Kenny Bracks car stood up to the crash amazingly well, just the "cell" was left and the energy of the crash was reduced as bits were ripped off.
My biggest fear is a car "taking off" as Mario did at Indy, and landing in the grandstand, methanol burning amongst spectators packed into a stand with no chance of escaping or extinguishing the blaze. i know the catch fence is high, but can it ever be too high?!?
Whilst cars are more likely to suffer serious damage at high speeds, a fatal crash can occur at low speed too though thankfully with the introduction of many safety features, a driver in a low speed crash is much more likely to walk away.Kenny Bracks car stood up to the crash amazingly well, just the "cell" was left and the energy of the crash was reduced as bits were ripped off.
My biggest fear is a car "taking off" as Mario did at Indy, and landing in the grandstand, methanol burning amongst spectators packed into a stand with no chance of escaping or extinguishing the blaze. i know the catch fence is high, but can it ever be too high?!?
By all accounts it would seem that Renna's fatal accident was another "take off" incident involving the car hitting the catch fencing. Very sad indeed, but I can't help feeling that, racing culture or not, open wheelers are just getting too fast for certain tracks. Heaven knows NASCAR (and feeder series) has seen too many fatal crashes at ovals in recent years, and those are very solid cars with huge safety cages. What hope has a single seat driver got?
Ok, drivers know the risks and accept them, but had this crash happened during the Indy 500 and killed spectators.....
Does seem odd that a country so blame and safety obsessed as the US seems happy to accept dead racing drivers without a second thought.
Ok, drivers know the risks and accept them, but had this crash happened during the Indy 500 and killed spectators.....
Does seem odd that a country so blame and safety obsessed as the US seems happy to accept dead racing drivers without a second thought.
There does seem to be a problem with these cars actually "flying" once their noses lift even a couple of inches. Andretti's and Brack's accidents both had an aerodynamic element to them. I think, at speeds of just under 200 mph this "lift" does not occur at anything like the rapidity and violence we have seen with these three accidents. Some way of keeping the speeds under 200 mph might be the answer. If you had cars that resembled big butch Formula Fords, with no front or rear wings, would they go fast enough the flip up into the air if they got air under their noses? From what I've seen of 1960s Indy racing, this did not happen. OK, I know the cars were very unsafe in other areas
but a car constructed to current safety standards would not be the death trap a 1966 Indy car was.
To be honest, would spectators find 190 mph races less exciting than 230 mph ones?
(It's all part of my campaign to get wings taken of racing cars).
>> Edited by eric mc on Thursday 23 October 23:55
but a car constructed to current safety standards would not be the death trap a 1966 Indy car was.
To be honest, would spectators find 190 mph races less exciting than 230 mph ones?
(It's all part of my campaign to get wings taken of racing cars).
>> Edited by eric mc on Thursday 23 October 23:55
In my opinion removing the wings is not the answer to the problem. Removing the wings will make the cars look very unattractive and reduce advertising space - more of a step backwards than a step forwards. The cars still need to look fast, sound impressive and be a benchmark of modern technology.
The cars need their top speeds reduce only slightly just 30mph or so.
The top speeds of the cars are governed by their high power outputs. The easiest and most wise option would be to power limit the engines either by rev limiting or restricting. Rev limiting of an engine is very hard to police and control, where as restricting an engine with physical air inlet blockage is very effective. They could have two sets of restrictors for street and oval racing. Simple very simple. This could also apply to Cart racing, then the boost relief valve issues could also become a thing of the past.
Just my view.
Jeremy.
The cars need their top speeds reduce only slightly just 30mph or so.
The top speeds of the cars are governed by their high power outputs. The easiest and most wise option would be to power limit the engines either by rev limiting or restricting. Rev limiting of an engine is very hard to police and control, where as restricting an engine with physical air inlet blockage is very effective. They could have two sets of restrictors for street and oval racing. Simple very simple. This could also apply to Cart racing, then the boost relief valve issues could also become a thing of the past.
Just my view.
Jeremy.
GET RID OF WINGS. I mean it.
Who says modern cars are the "benchmark" of technology, especially IRL cars. They have so many restrictions placed on them now they are nowhere near as advanced as they could be. A restriction on wings would be just another. Anyway, Formula Ford cars aren't particularly ugly. Why not a 300 bhp - 400 bhp super Formula Ford?
Who says modern cars are the "benchmark" of technology, especially IRL cars. They have so many restrictions placed on them now they are nowhere near as advanced as they could be. A restriction on wings would be just another. Anyway, Formula Ford cars aren't particularly ugly. Why not a 300 bhp - 400 bhp super Formula Ford?
It depends on how old you are. When I was young, racing cars did not have wings so I see no problem in removing them. Sheer speed to me is not that impressive. Watching the driver controlling a sliding difficult, beast is far more entertaining.
That's why Tuscan racing is so good to watch.
That's why Tuscan racing is so good to watch.
Is it the actual wing design generating lift, or just presenting the underside of the car (flat bottomed in IRL?) to the wind? There's a debate raging in another forum I use from time to time about this.
Without a grounding in aerodynamics it's hard to comment, but could the wings of a single seater really create "lift" strong enough to make the car take off, or is it simply a case of the aero properties of the front of the car being compromised, reducing downforce, allowing air under the car and THAT causing the flips? That's what seems to happen in the instance of blowovers in drag racing - it's not lift as such, it's loss of downforce. Tricky.
Without a grounding in aerodynamics it's hard to comment, but could the wings of a single seater really create "lift" strong enough to make the car take off, or is it simply a case of the aero properties of the front of the car being compromised, reducing downforce, allowing air under the car and THAT causing the flips? That's what seems to happen in the instance of blowovers in drag racing - it's not lift as such, it's loss of downforce. Tricky.
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