First ever gig photography attempt...
Discussion
I got a Canon 300D for cheap a few weeks ago, and the other day I took it to a gig to try and get to grips with how an SLR operates and I'd love to get into photography but despite doing an art foundation course, I've hardly done much on it.
These were taken on fully manual mode or aperture priority mode- set the aperture as high as the Canon kit lens (only lens I have at the moment) would go, I think it was 5.6. ISO settings were 800 I think. Didn't want to go to 1600 due to grainyness. I might be completely wrong but just what I remember my tutor saying! Main problems of course being the lighting levels, and not managing to capture enough light without the subject blurring on faster shutter speed.
I'm supposed to be going to another gig tonight and looking to take my camera. What improvements should I start on from these ones? I'm going to get a 50mm f/1.8 lens asap but I'm a student on a budget so might have to wait. But for the time being, what improvements can I work on with current equipment? For a start is there any way with better settings to reduce grain, but still getting a sharp image correctly exposed? They are quite grainy.
I don't know about the second one, not a great attempt, editted a bit in photoshop but no real improvements made. Just a couple below from my selection.
Please bear in mind they are my first proper attempt at any DSLR photography, so be kind
These were taken on fully manual mode or aperture priority mode- set the aperture as high as the Canon kit lens (only lens I have at the moment) would go, I think it was 5.6. ISO settings were 800 I think. Didn't want to go to 1600 due to grainyness. I might be completely wrong but just what I remember my tutor saying! Main problems of course being the lighting levels, and not managing to capture enough light without the subject blurring on faster shutter speed.
I'm supposed to be going to another gig tonight and looking to take my camera. What improvements should I start on from these ones? I'm going to get a 50mm f/1.8 lens asap but I'm a student on a budget so might have to wait. But for the time being, what improvements can I work on with current equipment? For a start is there any way with better settings to reduce grain, but still getting a sharp image correctly exposed? They are quite grainy.
I don't know about the second one, not a great attempt, editted a bit in photoshop but no real improvements made. Just a couple below from my selection.
Please bear in mind they are my first proper attempt at any DSLR photography, so be kind
Your photos look pretty good to me, esp. for a first attempt.
Regarding grain/noise, there is software that can reduce noise, but the downside is that it works by 'smudging it away' (I don't know the technical description is, but that's what it looks like) and so you lose some of the detail. It's not terrible and you can get very good results in my experience, but the more noise you want to get rid of, the more detail you lose. It's not a perfect substitute for using lower ISO. Obviously though, if you are pushed for light, a noisy but sharp photo is better than a noise free but motion blurred one.
Also, it depends on what you or the people you're taking the photos for want. Photography doesn't have to be about capturing an image of what something actually looked like, and IMO, some of the best photos depict things in a way that we don't usually see and film grain/sensor noise can be a part of that.
Regarding grain/noise, there is software that can reduce noise, but the downside is that it works by 'smudging it away' (I don't know the technical description is, but that's what it looks like) and so you lose some of the detail. It's not terrible and you can get very good results in my experience, but the more noise you want to get rid of, the more detail you lose. It's not a perfect substitute for using lower ISO. Obviously though, if you are pushed for light, a noisy but sharp photo is better than a noise free but motion blurred one.
Also, it depends on what you or the people you're taking the photos for want. Photography doesn't have to be about capturing an image of what something actually looked like, and IMO, some of the best photos depict things in a way that we don't usually see and film grain/sensor noise can be a part of that.
Edited by SamHH on Friday 9th January 18:05
Louisa911 said:
set the aperture as high as the Canon kit lens...would go, I think it was 5.6.
I'd just add that apertures are not 'high' or 'low' but rather 'large' or 'small' because they refer to the size of the hole (iris) that the light is passing through 
It's important to get the terminology right, not least because it will help you to remember what aperture is and what happens when you adjust it
Edited by Simpo Two on Friday 9th January 18:36
Nice images, and not easy in the low light levels. Couple of things you can do to help reduce the noise - Get the exposure spot on (use the histogram to check you images and make sure the graph is well spread, not bunched at one end), and turn off all camera noise reduction (possibly even shooting RAW if you are brave), and removing the noise later in Photoshop. Something like noise ninja used on raw images from the camera (with no in camera NR) will give you images probably half to one stop better (ie equiv of a far more expensive camera) than done in camera.
You could also consider converting to black and white and going for the "jazz club" look where the noise is far less intrusive or lowering the ISO and going for the silloete type shots.
Consider getting an external flash also and learning the frustrating art of mixing flash and ambient light.
And get a 50mm f1.8! Quick! (or borrow one from a friend for tonight?)
Stick at it!
)
You could also consider converting to black and white and going for the "jazz club" look where the noise is far less intrusive or lowering the ISO and going for the silloete type shots.
Consider getting an external flash also and learning the frustrating art of mixing flash and ambient light.
And get a 50mm f1.8! Quick! (or borrow one from a friend for tonight?)
Stick at it!
)Are you allowed to use flash? If so try it. Grain, in moderation, can enhance these kind of shots so don't worry too much, as can black and white.
Your shots are brilliant by the way
If you're ok with photoshop shoot raw and don't be afraid to underexpose slightly; you can recover to some degree in Adobe camera raw.
But for 1st time shots - excellent work.
Scott
Your shots are brilliant by the way
If you're ok with photoshop shoot raw and don't be afraid to underexpose slightly; you can recover to some degree in Adobe camera raw.
But for 1st time shots - excellent work.
Scott
Thanks for the advice!
Back from tonights gig already- was the opening night of a new live bar venue and the stage lighting was horrific, all the spotlights were on the audience and the very back wall behind the band. Okay for silhouette shots as mentioned earlier, but still very low light and way too much artificial smoke stuff. Trying a different venue next time!
Back from tonights gig already- was the opening night of a new live bar venue and the stage lighting was horrific, all the spotlights were on the audience and the very back wall behind the band. Okay for silhouette shots as mentioned earlier, but still very low light and way too much artificial smoke stuff. Trying a different venue next time!
VxDuncan said:
And get a 50mm f1.8! Quick!
Agreed - keeps it simple and VERY cost effective. The 50mm is a great lens and pretty ideal for this type of stuff. For stage work I use the 50 and an old m/f 85mm which is sharp as hell. Edited to say : Oh, and your pics are great for a first attempt!
Edited by CivicMan on Friday 9th January 22:29
Simpo Two said:
Louisa911 said:
set the aperture as high as the Canon kit lens...would go, I think it was 5.6.
I'd just add that apertures are not 'high' or 'low' but rather 'large' or 'small' because they refer to the size of the hole (iris) that the light is passing through 
Louisa911 said:
Thanks for the advice!
Back from tonights gig already- was the opening night of a new live bar venue and the stage lighting was horrific, all the spotlights were on the audience and the very back wall behind the band. Okay for silhouette shots as mentioned earlier, but still very low light and way too much artificial smoke stuff. Trying a different venue next time!
Out of interest do you know the bands involved or just take a camera along. I quite fancy a go again (haven't photographed a gig since before uni, that was a while ago...). Would have suggested a burst of fill flash with the back lighting could work really weel if balanced correctly, but the smoke probably kills that idea.Back from tonights gig already- was the opening night of a new live bar venue and the stage lighting was horrific, all the spotlights were on the audience and the very back wall behind the band. Okay for silhouette shots as mentioned earlier, but still very low light and way too much artificial smoke stuff. Trying a different venue next time!
VxDuncan said:
Louisa911 said:
Thanks for the advice!
Back from tonights gig already- was the opening night of a new live bar venue and the stage lighting was horrific, all the spotlights were on the audience and the very back wall behind the band. Okay for silhouette shots as mentioned earlier, but still very low light and way too much artificial smoke stuff. Trying a different venue next time!
Out of interest do you know the bands involved or just take a camera along. I quite fancy a go again (haven't photographed a gig since before uni, that was a while ago...). Would have suggested a burst of fill flash with the back lighting could work really weel if balanced correctly, but the smoke probably kills that idea.Back from tonights gig already- was the opening night of a new live bar venue and the stage lighting was horrific, all the spotlights were on the audience and the very back wall behind the band. Okay for silhouette shots as mentioned earlier, but still very low light and way too much artificial smoke stuff. Trying a different venue next time!
Famous Graham said:
Simpo Two said:
I'd just add that apertures are not 'high' or 'low' but rather 'large' or 'small' because they refer to the size of the hole (iris) that the light is passing through
'Wide' and 'narrow' ackcherly They look as good as you can expect to get in the circumstances. If you want to try for less noise the only option is to crank down to ISO400 but obviously that's going to require a slower shutter speed and that increases the camera shake/motion blur so you need to be good at holding the camera still and chose your moments when the subjects aren't moving around so much.
Try using multi-shot mode and you'll often find amongst a load of blurred shots you'll get one that comes out reasonably sharp.
Composure wise, hands are expressive - try not to cut them off! The subject doesn't have to be dead centre, offset the to the side sometimes in the direction they're facing and maybe tilt the camera to make use of the corners and get the guitar machine-head in frame (a 50mm lens is great for teaching you how to make the most of the field of view available as well as the extra aperture in low light)
Never use a flash unless it's absolute desperation city.
Watch the lights and anticipate the big splashes - pounce when it's favourable!
Look for the best viewing angless - microphone stands are the enemy as you've already found out
Lastly, don't be a pain - respect the audience
Try using multi-shot mode and you'll often find amongst a load of blurred shots you'll get one that comes out reasonably sharp.
Composure wise, hands are expressive - try not to cut them off! The subject doesn't have to be dead centre, offset the to the side sometimes in the direction they're facing and maybe tilt the camera to make use of the corners and get the guitar machine-head in frame (a 50mm lens is great for teaching you how to make the most of the field of view available as well as the extra aperture in low light)
Never use a flash unless it's absolute desperation city.
Watch the lights and anticipate the big splashes - pounce when it's favourable!
Look for the best viewing angless - microphone stands are the enemy as you've already found out
Lastly, don't be a pain - respect the audience
Edited by kerplunk on Saturday 10th January 02:52
Great pics Louisa, first is my fave. only problem I have is the jaunty camera angle in the last (which can work well but often over-used) in that it looks like all the equipment is in a landslide, and you've lost the fact that the guitarist was obviously far from upright at the time, yet you've made him upright in your shot so losing the drama of his body angle. Other than that though I'm always impressed by anything good from a gig night under often very compromised conditions of lighting, smoke, access, being jostled by others (i it's a good gig anyway!) .. takes me back to college, battle of the bands, etc nostalgia etc misty eyed etc
on another note have the Jam Rags split for good now or will there be any more ?
on another note have the Jam Rags split for good now or will there be any more ?
I think that these are an excellent set of images, especially considering that they are your first venture into live band photography. Live gigs can be tricky, especially if there is a smoke machine involved.
All the above advice is excellent. I think that low key shots can work really well and sometimes the addition of movement by combining flash with long shutter speed can work well to convey the energy of the performance. The only other thing to add is, if you're not doing so already, study the work of other music photographers. This magazine is well worth looking at for inspiration -
http://rock-a-rolla.com/main/
And so is the work of my friend who works for them -
http://www.myspace.com/letthemeatcoal
Try plenty of different approaches and techniques. Eventually you will establish your own style. Keep up the good work and enjoy!
All the above advice is excellent. I think that low key shots can work really well and sometimes the addition of movement by combining flash with long shutter speed can work well to convey the energy of the performance. The only other thing to add is, if you're not doing so already, study the work of other music photographers. This magazine is well worth looking at for inspiration -
http://rock-a-rolla.com/main/
And so is the work of my friend who works for them -
http://www.myspace.com/letthemeatcoal
Try plenty of different approaches and techniques. Eventually you will establish your own style. Keep up the good work and enjoy!
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