A word of warning
Discussion
Following the recent discussions after the spate of car jackings, road rage etc and some of the advice handed out by myself and others I think it's prudent if recant what happened to me about an hour ago.
A few months ago after a friend came home to find a scroat in his house and following the benny hill chase that followed with the burglar and the carving knife and the friend with a dining room chair I took the decision that I would never put myself in a position where I wasn't prepared for what might be round the corner either in my cars or house. To that end from an advert in a magazine (FHM or something equally blokey) I ordered and extendable baton from an internet based company in Bristol and tucked said item away discretely in the glove box. I think I even gave the URL and advice on here at the time.
Anyway the company in Bristol has now been shut down and owners are awaiting trial for "a series of offences" this meant that all their records on who they sold to have been seized and to that end I've had a visit this morning from 2 of Kents finest. They were fine friendly and polite, I was honest as to why I bought it and why it was in my car, which to a degree they empathised with and understood (last sat someone was beaten with a baseball bat and v nearly killed half a mile from my house) Anyway the long and the short of it is these things are legal to posses in your own home but illegal in public (including the car) and certainly very illegal to use if you had to. I had to remove it from the car luckily on the drive not the road and was given the option to hand it in for disposal (I declined and said I would keep it in the house incase it was ever needed). In the course of the conversation the subject of pepper and cs sprays was touched and I can confirm that both of these are deemed as firearms and therfore very offenceive. My word of caution is be very careful what is in the car and how it will be viewed personally I now have a 4 cell maglite very un offensive but equally effective taking my baton's place and am fully aware on the consequences if I used it. I still believe I would rather take my day in court than a knife in the chest, but have been made aware that my PNC records now reflect that I posses an extendable baton and If I'm ever pulled over may be approached differently.
Oh yes and the final point a small throw away comment by the 2 plain clothes in tatty fiesta that visited me was some consolation they hate traffic cops as well !!!!
A few months ago after a friend came home to find a scroat in his house and following the benny hill chase that followed with the burglar and the carving knife and the friend with a dining room chair I took the decision that I would never put myself in a position where I wasn't prepared for what might be round the corner either in my cars or house. To that end from an advert in a magazine (FHM or something equally blokey) I ordered and extendable baton from an internet based company in Bristol and tucked said item away discretely in the glove box. I think I even gave the URL and advice on here at the time.
Anyway the company in Bristol has now been shut down and owners are awaiting trial for "a series of offences" this meant that all their records on who they sold to have been seized and to that end I've had a visit this morning from 2 of Kents finest. They were fine friendly and polite, I was honest as to why I bought it and why it was in my car, which to a degree they empathised with and understood (last sat someone was beaten with a baseball bat and v nearly killed half a mile from my house) Anyway the long and the short of it is these things are legal to posses in your own home but illegal in public (including the car) and certainly very illegal to use if you had to. I had to remove it from the car luckily on the drive not the road and was given the option to hand it in for disposal (I declined and said I would keep it in the house incase it was ever needed). In the course of the conversation the subject of pepper and cs sprays was touched and I can confirm that both of these are deemed as firearms and therfore very offenceive. My word of caution is be very careful what is in the car and how it will be viewed personally I now have a 4 cell maglite very un offensive but equally effective taking my baton's place and am fully aware on the consequences if I used it. I still believe I would rather take my day in court than a knife in the chest, but have been made aware that my PNC records now reflect that I posses an extendable baton and If I'm ever pulled over may be approached differently.
Oh yes and the final point a small throw away comment by the 2 plain clothes in tatty fiesta that visited me was some consolation they hate traffic cops as well !!!!
Don't know the details of how it works but the impression I got is that If I am ever pulled over, when they radio the number plate through (which they normally do before the blues go on) they will get a warning that I might be in possession of an offensive weapon and will obviously approach me differently and with more caution. Fine by me it will be at home awaiting a scroat.
PNC - Police National Computer
An accessible system of computers for the various police forces to share information and records and to aid in the detection of national criminals - alternatively an example of 1994 where you are tracked at all times...
The choice is yours.
Personally I find the car jacking thing a complete nightmare. I mean, what are you supposed to do? Hand over your pride and joy, complete with the keys and say thanks for not hitting me? Surely we are allowed to defend ourselves in these circumstances? Oh, no sorry forgot - the law is on the side of the offender, need to be careful just in case they might be damaged forever by such an incident. What can we do - send them to prison and have them come out better crims than when we put them in????
At least the mobile phone robbery thing is getting somewhere - I mean, I doubt that chap that got sent away last week was expecting 4 years for knicking a mobile phone..... I doubt that he will be doing that again...
Cheers,
Paul
An accessible system of computers for the various police forces to share information and records and to aid in the detection of national criminals - alternatively an example of 1994 where you are tracked at all times...
The choice is yours.
Personally I find the car jacking thing a complete nightmare. I mean, what are you supposed to do? Hand over your pride and joy, complete with the keys and say thanks for not hitting me? Surely we are allowed to defend ourselves in these circumstances? Oh, no sorry forgot - the law is on the side of the offender, need to be careful just in case they might be damaged forever by such an incident. What can we do - send them to prison and have them come out better crims than when we put them in????
At least the mobile phone robbery thing is getting somewhere - I mean, I doubt that chap that got sent away last week was expecting 4 years for knicking a mobile phone..... I doubt that he will be doing that again...
Cheers,
Paul
quote:
At least the mobile phone robbery thing is getting somewhere - I mean, I doubt that chap that got sent away last week was expecting 4 years for knicking a mobile phone..... I doubt that he will be doing that again...
naah he'll be robbing post offices / carjacking when he gets out.
hi Mel
ok thats what i did think it was , 1984 is coming true just a bit late i guess, i mean if some one is a known scrote then fair enough to have warnings on the computer but until you commit an offence with the said weapon its a bit unfair , a weapon can take many forms and is often not thought of as a weapon until after its sticking out of someones head
(preferably a scrotes head) it like being in possesion of a Torch ,
ok thats what i did think it was , 1984 is coming true just a bit late i guess, i mean if some one is a known scrote then fair enough to have warnings on the computer but until you commit an offence with the said weapon its a bit unfair , a weapon can take many forms and is often not thought of as a weapon until after its sticking out of someones head
(preferably a scrotes head) it like being in possesion of a Torch ,
Interesting to compare the UK to the US:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020206/180/12o6e.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020206/180/12o6e.html
What makes me despair is that as soon as any violent robber or attacker faces even the slightest retaliation he goes running to the police to get the defender arrested. They refuse to acknowledge that their actions may have any consequences and the law just appears to support them 
Its high time the little scrotes were forced to face the consequences!
Its high time the little scrotes were forced to face the consequences!
quote:
Interesting to compare the UK to the US:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020206/180/12o6e.html
Thats it in a bloody nutshell quote
"That reduction is attributed not only to publicized cases of citizens using firearms for self defense , but to the deterrent value of the potential criminal not knowing who is carrying a defensive firearm and who is not"
YEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
quote:
Interesting to compare the UK to the US:
As I said elsewhere, the right to defend yourself is a good thing that the US has.. They also have the right to shoot dead a burgler on their property, and they have a club that pays a reward to anyone that manages to do so.. None of the club members have ever made a claim. (might have something to do with the little Club sticker in the Windows mind
) In the UK we have the right to get attacked, killed etc... and I would not be too surprised if a murderer can sue the family of the person he kills for the Trauma it has caused him and for new clothes that he spilled blood on
The law on this is a little hazy, however, if you injure an assailant in the course of protecting either you or your property you are entitled to claim self defence.
However, you must demonstrate that the force used was reasonable. As soon as you use a weapon of any kind it will be more difficult to prove this. However, to the extent that you can claim that in the heat of the moment you picked up and used the first thing that came to hand (i.e. a maglite) to defend yourself, the courts have viewed this as being the actions of a reasonable man.
This should be contrasted with the situation where your hand happens to fall on say, an extendable baton, which gives the appearance of some pre-meditation, and consequently does not give the same weight to the "heat of the moment" argument. You could then find yourself in serious trouble with the law.
My view is that in the final analysis, what is worth more - your car or your life? Better to give up the car and live to drive another day. That is what insurance is for.
Beasty
However, you must demonstrate that the force used was reasonable. As soon as you use a weapon of any kind it will be more difficult to prove this. However, to the extent that you can claim that in the heat of the moment you picked up and used the first thing that came to hand (i.e. a maglite) to defend yourself, the courts have viewed this as being the actions of a reasonable man.
This should be contrasted with the situation where your hand happens to fall on say, an extendable baton, which gives the appearance of some pre-meditation, and consequently does not give the same weight to the "heat of the moment" argument. You could then find yourself in serious trouble with the law.
My view is that in the final analysis, what is worth more - your car or your life? Better to give up the car and live to drive another day. That is what insurance is for.
Beasty
Back to the PNC question, during a discussion with one of the providers of the system I asked about security. I work in Financial services with particular focus on anti fraud and fraud detection systems so was interested in how they protected all that lovely info. Got the response 'All terminals are in police stations mate, how much more secure do you want it to be'
Good job plods exempt from DPA.
Good job plods exempt from DPA.
I think I'm probably on the PNC! First & only conviction at 17 yrs for criminal damage. - Kicked a road traffic bollard over during a drunken evening out (no previous form!). Though conviction was a perhaps a little harsh! Nice to know this data is so secure.
Mel,
I hope that company in Bristol wasn't the same place I bought my gattling guns - s'pose I'll be getting a visit from plod as well!
Mel,
I hope that company in Bristol wasn't the same place I bought my gattling guns - s'pose I'll be getting a visit from plod as well!
adamb,
To put your mind at rest, I know the company that is helping the various police forces secure their IT systems for connection to the PNC (PNN - Police National Network v2 to be precise). You will find that the individual police forces dont meet with the minimum standard required for PNN / PNC - therefore they get this and then they are connected. The standards for PNN / PNC are actually quite high and certainly more stringent that those you would find in many companies....
Then again, I used to work for a flooring contractor and they did a police station in the NE. Nearly completed and then some bright spark realised that the building was cheaply constructed out of re-inforced concrete blocks and metal supports - Radio receiption was crap - and best of all, the height of the ceiling wasnt tall enough for them to keep their helmets on..... Good planning there then...
Cheers,
Paul
To put your mind at rest, I know the company that is helping the various police forces secure their IT systems for connection to the PNC (PNN - Police National Network v2 to be precise). You will find that the individual police forces dont meet with the minimum standard required for PNN / PNC - therefore they get this and then they are connected. The standards for PNN / PNC are actually quite high and certainly more stringent that those you would find in many companies....
Then again, I used to work for a flooring contractor and they did a police station in the NE. Nearly completed and then some bright spark realised that the building was cheaply constructed out of re-inforced concrete blocks and metal supports - Radio receiption was crap - and best of all, the height of the ceiling wasnt tall enough for them to keep their helmets on..... Good planning there then...
Cheers,
Paul
quote:
My view is that in the final analysis, what is worth more - your car or your life? Better to give up the car and live to drive another day. That is what insurance is for.
What if you can't afford the excess, or the next years renewal?
Maim the b'stards and drive off.
Funny how when I got attacked years ago, the sods got away, yet we are so scared to hit back incase WE are done by the law?
So if you don't get mugged by the criminal, you get mugged by the Police, and made a criminal yourself?
Doh !
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