Info on Minispeed vs JCW conversions

[Chuck21]

Hi all,

I'm looking at either of the above options for my impending ahem....'sensible' car purchase and wondered if anyone could give any advice/recommendations. For my budget (c £9k) I'd be looking at a 210bhp JCW with about 40k miles or a Minispeed stage 2 with 215bhp/quad exhausts etc. I've driven a Minispeed and it was fantastic fun but know very little about them as an ownership proposition.

The main things I'm keen to learn more about are overall performance/handling differences, any technical issues/gremlins to look out for and/or reliability issues, and warranty issues etc. Do both use a replacement S'charger or is that just the JCW ?

All advice gratefully received !

[JCW_Matt]

JCW was obviously a factory option and a BMW endorsed and approved upgrade, so you wont have any warranty issues.

Anything extra from a 3rd party tuner - Minispeed, Lohen, GTT is down to the dealers discrestion if they want to allow warranty claims or not. Some probably wont notice But strictly speaking the warrantly paperwork states any extra tuning voids warranty. Especially if you have a massive top mount intercooler on it - not exactly inconspicuous.

Best best would be to get JCW @ 210 and get a remap for it on a handheld to get it to about 220. When it goes in for service wipe the map and put it back on after if it worrys you that much. Best way to get proper waranteed power in my opinion.

A good friend has a 240bhp MCS tuned by one of the companies. Was forever going wrong - serious st too, not little niggles.

My chipped JCW never had one engine fault

[Chuck21]

Many thanks Matt - sound advice ! My gut feeling is very much like yours, that the JCW is the safer bet; looking on other forums people have had various issues with non-JCW re-maps/mod's which also puts me off.

I noticed you're in Berkshire, can you recommend any Mini tuning specialists for after-market work ? (I'm in Surrey so not too far away).

Cheers
Charles

[JCW_Matt]

No worries mate, anytime.

Presuming you just want to go for a chip tune loads of places do that locally, but if you want a Mini specialist I would go for GTT or Lohen - custom developed maps if I remember correctly.

Both are a cuple of hours away, but are a decent little road trip and it gives you a chance to test it out on the way back

Good luck.
Matt

[haggle]

DO NOT GO TO MINI SPEED

1320 mini up in st neots or think mini over in worcester are the only people i trust to work on my car

[RKDE]

I would reccomend you talking to 1320 as they will sort you out.

I have the JCW 210 conversion and I love it, there is some nice things about it such as the JCW badges and knowing that its a real JCW not a copy and the warrenty also the resale values (are not near what you will pay though). that aside it costs a hell of a lot.

[Chuck21]

Cheers Richard / Matt,

I think the reasurance of knowing that the JCW conversion has been tried and tested in-house is a big plus and the way to go; 210bhp is ample for my needs anyway so I'd be happy to leave as is.

My understanding is that a JCW conversion should include a new Roots S'charger, new head and back-boxes, and new exhaust - is there anything else to look out for (suspension ??) - this would obviously be for an earlier S'charged model.

Many thanks !

[Rags]

I was in the same quandry as a friend of mine is a trader and offered me a minispeed converted mini.

I had the same debates in my mind and concluded that a standard JCW would be the best bet.

So I found a car that I liked, a fully loaded grey model (including every extra including Sat Nav, but minus the JCW Seats) for a bargain price.

I pick it up this weekend.

Great cars!

Rags

[Chuck21]

Cheers Rags - Sounds superb ! I like the sat-nav models as you get the speedo in front of you (where I think it should be ;-D

Do you know the standard upgrade spec (as per my last post) - I just want to make sure that I end up with a full upgrade rather than just a remap or part-conversion....

[RKDE]

there are 2 versions of the JCW conversion;

• the first is the 200Bhp kit which had a cylinder head, gen 5 11% reduced supercharger with Teflon coated blades (same as 54 + plate but with 11% reduction) cat back exhaust, re-map, intercooler cover, certificates, and some badges one on the rocker - front - and back.

• the second came out in 2004 though you could upgrade older minis to the 210Bhp kit for a small sum... This included all the above but also some larger injectors, certificates, and a different map and the JCW air box.

If you look at a pre 54 plate then check for blue injectors and the air box or you will be buying a 200bhp car.

Things to look out for are:

• The exhaust whilst stainless the welds on the brackets and bracket hangers have been no to fall off with age, this can be fixed but a replacement can be costly.
• The clutch bearings could rattle on start up this means a new clutch will be required at some point and in many cases a new fly wheel - this is common to all minis so don't worry about it just check for it.
• if you find a 210bhp version check the air box, at the back towards the scuttle panel / bulk head there is a valve to open the back of the box this could have been removed to aid the performance if it has as for it as I think this is a nice feature (when you go over 4000 rpm the valve opens to draw more air in this will increase the whine from the blower)
• A JCW does not mean it is loaded and extras are quite costly, I have every option and I can tell you the costs soon add up ie £1500 for seats, £80 rev lights, £178 carbon seat insets, body kit £900, brakes £600, mats £60, Wheels £1200, springs £1200, steering wheel £210, Gear nob £60, handbrake cover £50, Dashboard £250, Downtubes £160, rear boot handle £120, rear seats £450, Front strut bar £150 and quite a bit more and once the bug bites well good luck.
• Some aftermarked tuners will change the pulley and the crank to check this has not been done look at the end of the blower pulley (first one down under the intercooler pipe) if it has 6 bolt heads its been tinkered with (this is true of all blowers) standard is a collision fit and a single shaft fitting central. the crank should be almost a black disk and not silver with 3 or 4 legs on it, they are not dampened and could lead to oil pump failure.
• The tax band is a bit high currently £210 a year but could go to £350 in the new budget and they only get 30mpg (ish) some more some less
• a factory JCW may or may not come with JCW brakes, all the other items are dealer fit...

Above prices are just general prices, my advice is to also check the rear of the exhaust as there is a kink just before the branch of the back boxs this is normally removed for performance to increase the flow, check if it has and if its a good job.

Don't worry if you have a 200bhp it can be converted for about £400 and if you can get a good car then this should not be a deal breaker! the JCW is also not 200bhp or 210bhp in many cases it is less but you can forgive them as its a very good drive.

I personally would not go for the sat nav as I have a pda with it on and I don't agree with the dvd disc price about £1000! the speed is displayed in front of you on a digital display if you don't have a sat nav and it is better, the sat nav is not that desirable for the cost. you can't see the gauges that well through the steering wheel well depending on your height so I would very much advise no sat nav.

The JCW badge is nice, while there are other options this is the only really JCW developed engine. lets not forget the new JCW is not produced by JCW, the R53 was the last JCW in house engine development and now all the work is produced by BMW, as a mini fan I appreciate it. Other tuners can offer the power for a lot less but they can't offer the nostalgia or in fact produce a future classic whereas the JCW will in time become a concourse classic

All JCW parts have a BMW part number on and have the JCW logo so you know its not a fake - beware there are externally tuned cars with JCW badges on! why? well they obviously wanted a JCW... (sorry MHO)

if you have any other questions then ask. (have I covered it?)

Edited by RKDE on Friday 7th November 14:59

[haggle]

Chuck21 said:

Cheers Richard / Matt,

I think the reasurance of knowing that the JCW conversion has been tried and tested in-house is a big plus and the way to go; 210bhp is ample for my needs anyway so I'd be happy to leave as is.

My understanding is that a JCW conversion should include a new Roots S'charger, new head and back-boxes, and new exhaust - is there anything else to look out for (suspension ??) - this would obviously be for an earlier S'charged model.

Many thanks !

you wont find a JCW thats made 210 the never do, ive seen more dynoed than i care to admit the GTT and 1320 conversions are the only ones that have made proven power and there has never been a failure either the GTT220 is a 3rd of the price of the JCW makes power and is just as reliable

suspension depends on how deep your pokects are my cooper will be running custom AST coilshocks with Swift springs and texas SW camber arms and h-sport com sway bars all in about £1600

[Chuck21]

RKDE said:

there are 2 versions of the JCW conversion;

• the first is the 200Bhp kit which had a cylinder head, gen 5 11% reduced supercharger with Teflon coated blades (same as 54 + plate but with 11% reduction) cat back exhaust, re-map, intercooler cover, certificates, and some badges one on the rocker - front - and back.

• the second came out in 2004 though you could upgrade older minis to the 210Bhp kit for a small sum... This included all the above but also some larger injectors, certificates, and a different map and the JCW air box.

If you look at a pre 54 plate then check for blue injectors and the air box or you will be buying a 200bhp car.

Things to look out for are:

• The exhaust whilst stainless the welds on the brackets and bracket hangers have been no to fall off with age, this can be fixed but a replacement can be costly.
• The clutch bearings could rattle on start up this means a new clutch will be required at some point and in many cases a new fly wheel - this is common to all minis so don't worry about it just check for it.
• if you find a 210bhp version check the air box, at the back towards the scuttle panel / bulk head there is a valve to open the back of the box this could have been removed to aid the performance if it has as for it as I think this is a nice feature (when you go over 4000 rpm the valve opens to draw more air in this will increase the whine from the blower)
• A JCW does not mean it is loaded and extras are quite costly, I have every option and I can tell you the costs soon add up ie £1500 for seats, £80 rev lights, £178 carbon seat insets, body kit £900, brakes £600, mats £60, Wheels £1200, springs £1200, steering wheel £210, Gear nob £60, handbrake cover £50, Dashboard £250, Downtubes £160, rear boot handle £120, rear seats £450, Front strut bar £150 and quite a bit more and once the bug bites well good luck.
• Some aftermarked tuners will change the pulley and the crank to check this has not been done look at the end of the blower pulley (first one down under the intercooler pipe) if it has 6 bolt heads its been tinkered with (this is true of all blowers) standard is a collision fit and a single shaft fitting central. the crank should be almost a black disk and not silver with 3 or 4 legs on it, they are not dampened and could lead to oil pump failure.
• The tax band is a bit high currently £210 a year but could go to £350 in the new budget and they only get 30mpg (ish) some more some less
• a factory JCW may or may not come with JCW brakes, all the other items are dealer fit...

Above prices are just general prices, my advice is to also check the rear of the exhaust as there is a kink just before the branch of the back boxs this is normally removed for performance to increase the flow, check if it has and if its a good job.

Don't worry if you have a 200bhp it can be converted for about £400 and if you can get a good car then this should not be a deal breaker! the JCW is also not 200bhp or 210bhp in many cases it is less but you can forgive them as its a very good drive.

I personally would not go for the sat nav as I have a pda with it on and I don't agree with the dvd disc price about £1000! the speed is displayed in front of you on a digital display if you don't have a sat nav and it is better, the sat nav is not that desirable for the cost. you can't see the gauges that well through the steering wheel well depending on your height so I would very much advise no sat nav.

The JCW badge is nice as while there are other options this is the only really JCW developed engine and lets not forget the new JCW is not produced by JCW the R53 was the last JCW in house engine and now all the work is produced by BMW, as a mini fan I appreciate it. Other tuners can offer the power for a lot less but they can't off the nostalgia or in fact produce a future classic whereas the JCW will in time become a concourse classic

All JCW parts have a BMW part number on and have the JCW logo so you know its not a fake - beware there are externally tuned cars with JCW badges on! why? well they obviously wanted a JCW... (sorry MHO)

if you have any other questions then ask. (have I covered it?)

Edited by RKDE on Wednesday 5th November 21:06

Edited by RKDE on Wednesday 5th November 21:13

Edited by RKDE on Wednesday 5th November 21:18

That's absolutely brilliant, thanks so much. This will be my 'bible' when it comes to viewing cars and gives me a lot more confidence !

C