Any future for 911?
Discussion
Just thinking about Porsche's future range of vehicles. The new 997 will eventually be a lardy old v8 tourer, laiden with cupholders and gadgets for fat americans, parked up next to the porsche suv. This only leaves the 'entry' level boxter to hopefully cater for no frills sports car exitement, and at the other end the 250k GT supercar. Both of which are mid engined. Is this a pattern appearing here? Maybe Porsche sees it's future in pure sports cars as mid engined only. Looks like the 911 will loose it's original fans as it turns into a bmw 8 series. I guess this will finally pave the way for a really hot boxter with 911 or more power. A lot of people generally agree the boxter is much better handling anyway. Have you heard about RUF's new project? 911 turbo engined boxter!
But due to costs I guess they will share the same chassis - rear engined . This means greater weight to hold the v8 anyway, surely? So the only difference between the 997's will presumably be just suspension settings and the lower output 6 pot option - not idel if there's yet more bulk to haul around!
For what its worth and apologies for length of post....
Porsche's expertise and experience in the engineering department make the likelyhood of any 997 being lardy or ill concieved unlikely. All sorts of criticism has been levelled at the Cayenne - but whatever the so called purists think about the betrayal of heritage, the thing is probably going to be bloody well designed.
The current Boxsters and 996s are ground up state of the art creations. Many here may not like them or find them less involving than their older relatives, but they are excellent cars and have rescued the company from almost certain merger / failure.
And this is why Porsche is thinking of an 8 cylinder / 6 cylinder derivation of the next 911. Under it's Chairman of the last 10 years the company has gone through a small revolution. Cost of production has been slashed with increased flexibilty built in to allow all different current models to be built on the same production line at the same time. With this the new models have probably exceeded all sales expectations. Containing costs is also the main reason for not competing in recent years. The result has been record profits along with a shares issue that has meant that the Cayenne development cost are already met....
Rather than rest on these laurels they are trying to broaden the sales base by bring out the SUV and other variations. The theory is one of not keeping all your eggs in one basket. The jury's out on the Cayenne - it's target sales numbers seem very high for what will be a very expensive vehicle. I however, hope it succeeds, if only to Guarantee Porsche's future independence.
As for ditching the 911 in it's current 6 cylinder format and size - I think it very unlikely for the one reason that it sold in it's antiquated older form for so long - people will always want to buy a 6 cylinder rear engined 911.... it's a marketing man's wet dream.....
Porsche's expertise and experience in the engineering department make the likelyhood of any 997 being lardy or ill concieved unlikely. All sorts of criticism has been levelled at the Cayenne - but whatever the so called purists think about the betrayal of heritage, the thing is probably going to be bloody well designed.
The current Boxsters and 996s are ground up state of the art creations. Many here may not like them or find them less involving than their older relatives, but they are excellent cars and have rescued the company from almost certain merger / failure.
And this is why Porsche is thinking of an 8 cylinder / 6 cylinder derivation of the next 911. Under it's Chairman of the last 10 years the company has gone through a small revolution. Cost of production has been slashed with increased flexibilty built in to allow all different current models to be built on the same production line at the same time. With this the new models have probably exceeded all sales expectations. Containing costs is also the main reason for not competing in recent years. The result has been record profits along with a shares issue that has meant that the Cayenne development cost are already met....
Rather than rest on these laurels they are trying to broaden the sales base by bring out the SUV and other variations. The theory is one of not keeping all your eggs in one basket. The jury's out on the Cayenne - it's target sales numbers seem very high for what will be a very expensive vehicle. I however, hope it succeeds, if only to Guarantee Porsche's future independence.
As for ditching the 911 in it's current 6 cylinder format and size - I think it very unlikely for the one reason that it sold in it's antiquated older form for so long - people will always want to buy a 6 cylinder rear engined 911.... it's a marketing man's wet dream.....
Every time I hear about the forthcoming 997 it is mentioned that it will no longer look like a 911 anyway. So visually speaking if it looses that famous silouette then the 911 is dead anyway. No matter what badge is put on it. I wonder if it will look like an in between boxter / GT supercar. If it was mentioned years ago that the new 911 was going to no longer be aircooled, flat 6, lightweight, have 'that' silouette etc... 
I'm sure the new car will be good at what it's designed for - touring. It just seems Porsche has had this plan for years to ditch the 911. Everyone knows last time they tried to replace it with a touring v8 decades ago it failed. People kept buying the smaller 911. It seems each new 911 model comes out a major part of it's design is removed. What after the 997? Maybe the final change will be to put the engine at the front in a 998? Ahhh haaa! The tourer Porsche wanted all along!
I'm sure the new car will be good at what it's designed for - touring. It just seems Porsche has had this plan for years to ditch the 911. Everyone knows last time they tried to replace it with a touring v8 decades ago it failed. People kept buying the smaller 911. It seems each new 911 model comes out a major part of it's design is removed. What after the 997? Maybe the final change will be to put the engine at the front in a 998? Ahhh haaa! The tourer Porsche wanted all along!
My view is Roadrunner, that under the current philosophy, adding an extra model in an extra class ie. tourer is entirely possible and desireable - without threatening the current size and class the 996 fits into. The more strings to their bow the better for the company - they are in business to make money, as a family/stock market owned company over the long as well as the short term.
The 928 was envisaged as a replacement to the 911, but that was when they expected the 911 and it's type to become obsolete. They were stupendously wrong. Nowadays all options are being held open.
As to major parts of design disappearing over time - yes and no - my pa has a 996 and I have an 87 Carrera - the dimensions are very similar and philosophy similar too - only 14 years of technological development between them.
Go back to the original late 60's 911, make comparisons with cars of that time and then do the same with the current 996 model and I'm afraid I don't see huge differences in the concept....
I reckon there's every chance you'll get both the tourer you fear and the logical develompent of the 911 as well - but then I may be looking through rose tinted spectacles...
The 928 was envisaged as a replacement to the 911, but that was when they expected the 911 and it's type to become obsolete. They were stupendously wrong. Nowadays all options are being held open.
As to major parts of design disappearing over time - yes and no - my pa has a 996 and I have an 87 Carrera - the dimensions are very similar and philosophy similar too - only 14 years of technological development between them.
Go back to the original late 60's 911, make comparisons with cars of that time and then do the same with the current 996 model and I'm afraid I don't see huge differences in the concept....
I reckon there's every chance you'll get both the tourer you fear and the logical develompent of the 911 as well - but then I may be looking through rose tinted spectacles...
quote:
As for ditching the 911 in it's current 6 cylinder format and size - I think it very unlikely for the one reason that it sold in it's antiquated older form for so long - people will always want to buy a 6 cylinder rear engined 911.... it's a marketing man's wet dream.....
dead right, I do not see it going either. A former Porsche chairman coined the expression "Die Gusseisernen" - the "cast-iron" 911 customers. There are howls of indignation at even the slightest change of the format - and then they go out and buy them again and again. There are lads out there have bought 911s for nearly 40 years.
This customer bedrock helped save Porsche - I don't think they'll want to do without them.
Rgds, WalterU
>> Edited by WalterU on Friday 1st February 12:42
My guess is that mid engined or rear engined, V8 or flat 6, the new 911 will look superficially like a 911 in some form or other. They will keep the styling cues, even if they pervert them to GT1 proportions.
As far as luxury vs sportiness, there will be ample scope in the range for more luxury and more extremity - the RS, GT3, Turbo, GT2 badges will all come out to play as and when they are needed.
If I were product manager at Porsche, I would bring out a 998(?) - remember that the Cayenne appears to be the 997! - in Carrera 2 luxury format and RS stripped out 'road racer' format. The RS would be the same price, but racier spec and less luxuries.
Domster
As far as luxury vs sportiness, there will be ample scope in the range for more luxury and more extremity - the RS, GT3, Turbo, GT2 badges will all come out to play as and when they are needed.
If I were product manager at Porsche, I would bring out a 998(?) - remember that the Cayenne appears to be the 997! - in Carrera 2 luxury format and RS stripped out 'road racer' format. The RS would be the same price, but racier spec and less luxuries.
Domster
IMHO if the next 911 won't have a flat six behind the rear axle, it would be extremely unfair from Porsche to name it 911, with regards to the past of the car.
I think Porsche has been kidnapped by the 911, as has shown the front engine debacle of the early nineties...
I think they should keep the 911 in its current format and consider it with the Cayenne nothing else but cash cows; all the money provided by these two models may help them come back with a new front-engined v8 car...That's what I hope anyway.
I think Porsche has been kidnapped by the 911, as has shown the front engine debacle of the early nineties...
I think they should keep the 911 in its current format and consider it with the Cayenne nothing else but cash cows; all the money provided by these two models may help them come back with a new front-engined v8 car...That's what I hope anyway.
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