Redundancy - is this reasonable?
Discussion
I've just heard that my dad has been made redundant. He's flapping quite a bit by all accounts and I'm expecting a call from him shortly, so I'd like to be able to offer some support if possible.
Basically, he has worked at the same firm of solicitors for 40 or 45 years (can't remember which), through numerous mergers etc. This morning he get's the news that he's been fighting to avoid for the last 10 months.
The redundancy package being given is I believe, equivalent to three months wages.
If that was me, I'd be pretty upset given the length of service. Would you consider that package acceptable, legal or otherwise?
Would it possible to challenge the value?
Basically, he has worked at the same firm of solicitors for 40 or 45 years (can't remember which), through numerous mergers etc. This morning he get's the news that he's been fighting to avoid for the last 10 months.
The redundancy package being given is I believe, equivalent to three months wages.
If that was me, I'd be pretty upset given the length of service. Would you consider that package acceptable, legal or otherwise?
Would it possible to challenge the value?
I'm no expert but I guess it depends on whether his terms etc were TUPE'd over during the changes in ownership.
I was made redundant last month after 15 years of service & I got 2 weeks pay for every year + a full month tax free. Which is handy, but no substitute for a peace-of-mind regular wage coming in.
I was made redundant last month after 15 years of service & I got 2 weeks pay for every year + a full month tax free. Which is handy, but no substitute for a peace-of-mind regular wage coming in.
I think the minimum statutory redundancy pay is:
Half a week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year less than 22
One week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year is 22 or above, but less than 41.
One and a half weeks’ pay for each full year of service where age during year is 41+
and the max. weekly on the above is £330
Half a week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year less than 22
One week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year is 22 or above, but less than 41.
One and a half weeks’ pay for each full year of service where age during year is 41+
and the max. weekly on the above is £330
http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/monster/empf25.html
Unless there is a specific contract clause or in the company handbook, the legal minimum applies (as described on that link) UNLESS custom and practice has been to pay a higher amount. If C&P can be proved (e.g. month per year service) then he may have a case. Custom and practice cannot simply be ignored, but it can be overruled by a company statement of a new policy. They have to state this policy before the process starts, though - if he has been told already, they cannot retrospectively apply the new policy (without his agreement).
Unless there is a specific contract clause or in the company handbook, the legal minimum applies (as described on that link) UNLESS custom and practice has been to pay a higher amount. If C&P can be proved (e.g. month per year service) then he may have a case. Custom and practice cannot simply be ignored, but it can be overruled by a company statement of a new policy. They have to state this policy before the process starts, though - if he has been told already, they cannot retrospectively apply the new policy (without his agreement).
Sloe said:
I've just heard that my dad has been made redundant. He's flapping quite a bit by all accounts and I'm expecting a call from him shortly, so I'd like to be able to offer some support if possible.
Basically, he has worked at the same firm of solicitors for 40 or 45 years (can't remember which), through numerous mergers etc. This morning he get's the news that he's been fighting to avoid for the last 10 months.
The redundancy package being given is I believe, equivalent to three months wages.
If that was me, I'd be pretty upset given the length of service. Would you consider that package acceptable, legal or otherwise?
Would it possible to challenge the value?
Needs to see a decent Employment solicitor. But he will be looking at a pay of for 20 years of service, which should be fairly decent.Basically, he has worked at the same firm of solicitors for 40 or 45 years (can't remember which), through numerous mergers etc. This morning he get's the news that he's been fighting to avoid for the last 10 months.
The redundancy package being given is I believe, equivalent to three months wages.
If that was me, I'd be pretty upset given the length of service. Would you consider that package acceptable, legal or otherwise?
Would it possible to challenge the value?
Edited by Soovy on Wednesday 29th October 14:15
He's been there 40-45 years and they've offered 3months? No f
king way! That's fking terrible! Poor bd.
This is my understanding:
Statutory minimum will be £330 x 1.5 x no. full years which works out, assuming continuous employment (TUPE is a given here) at £19800 (tax free) for 40yrs service. Plus notice period.
Yes. Employment Lawyer. And Quick.
ETA:
From you OP it appears they may not have followed correct procedure, which, if so, is stupid and costly from the ER's perspective. Any EL will hang 'em out to dry.
king way! That's fking terrible! Poor bd. This is my understanding:
Statutory minimum will be £330 x 1.5 x no. full years which works out, assuming continuous employment (TUPE is a given here) at £19800 (tax free) for 40yrs service. Plus notice period.
Yes. Employment Lawyer. And Quick.
ETA:
From you OP it appears they may not have followed correct procedure, which, if so, is stupid and costly from the ER's perspective. Any EL will hang 'em out to dry.
Edited by richardxjr on Wednesday 29th October 14:24
Sloe said:
Basically, he has worked at the same firm of solicitors for 40 or 45 years (can't remember which), through numerous mergers etc. This morning he get's the news that he's been fighting to avoid for the last 10 months.
Can’t really help much on your question other than to say he needs to see an employment solicitor asap. Depending on what his role was (I’m guessing FILEX/Solicitor in a property dept.) I am afraid to say it is very unlikely he will get another job at a similar level, I know that many of the Firms round here are laying people off left right and centre now compared to a few who went in Qs1&2.
Not good times at all and with the changes in the law, the economic outlook and other issues I am sure he will spot but no-one would ever go on record about he needs to make sure he negotiates for every last penny he can.
Edited by rude-boy on Wednesday 29th October 14:24
aclivity said:
http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/monster/empf25.html
Unless there is a specific contract clause or in the company handbook, the legal minimum applies (as described on that link) UNLESS custom and practice has been to pay a higher amount. If C&P can be proved (e.g. month per year service) then he may have a case. Custom and practice cannot simply be ignored, but it can be overruled by a company statement of a new policy. They have to state this policy before the process starts, though - if he has been told already, they cannot retrospectively apply the new policy (without his agreement).
I was hoping something like this may exist, I'll bring it up along with Soovy's advice.Unless there is a specific contract clause or in the company handbook, the legal minimum applies (as described on that link) UNLESS custom and practice has been to pay a higher amount. If C&P can be proved (e.g. month per year service) then he may have a case. Custom and practice cannot simply be ignored, but it can be overruled by a company statement of a new policy. They have to state this policy before the process starts, though - if he has been told already, they cannot retrospectively apply the new policy (without his agreement).
As mentioned, if there have been several mergers etc it's possible that he was rehired under the new company, which would essential reset his length of servce to the merger.
3 months is a terrible deal under those circumstances, but it will really depend what is in his contract and on what basis the compromise agreement was arrived at.
3 months is a terrible deal under those circumstances, but it will really depend what is in his contract and on what basis the compromise agreement was arrived at.
haworthlloyd1 said:
id be upset and obviously feel sorry for him but they are a firm of solicitors so they will surely know everything down to the penny?
he could try and negotiate and point out his 40 yrs service etc
he is obviously near retirement - is he on a final salary scheme?
he could try and negotiate and point out his 40 yrs service etc
he is obviously near retirement - is he on a final salary scheme?
Don't make me laugh.Solicitors are excellent at telling others what to do, doing it themselves is a totally different issue.
Added to which they are, like any business, going to try to ‘get out of this’ as cheaply as possible.
I’m just slightly confused why someone like this was on the final list. Usually it would be far ‘cheaper’ to keep them on and get rid of a younger person in terms of the payout.
esselte said:
I think the minimum statutory redundancy pay is:
Half a week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year less than 22
One week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year is 22 or above, but less than 41.
One and a half weeks’ pay for each full year of service where age during year is 41+
and the max. weekly on the above is £330
This is correct. Payments are tax free up to £30,000 and he will also be due his notice and any remaining holiday pay. Half a week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year less than 22
One week’s pay for each full year of service where age during year is 22 or above, but less than 41.
One and a half weeks’ pay for each full year of service where age during year is 41+
and the max. weekly on the above is £330
Anything in addition to this is up to the employer. Has he actually been made redundant yet? He may of just been informed of his statutory entitlement as part of the normal consultation process. It may be that he can reach a compromise agreement that will offer better terms in exchange for a "clean" departure.
Soovy said:
He could use this as a springboard to early retirement.
Employment lawyer. NOW.
Good advice. The payout he's been offered is shocking and needs looking at, but with 40 odd years of service then he must be pretty near retirement? Combine the two, get the deal sorted and retire; that approach takes at least one issue off the table in that he would know what is coming next. Employment lawyer. NOW.
Often it is not the actual redundency that is unsettling or scary, its the not knowing what is coming next.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff