Dare I ask this here ?

[pdavison]

I hope I get away with asking this without getting a grilling !

I wanted to find out peoples opinions regarding the early BMW (E36) M3 (around 1994). I am considering one as a replacement for my TVR S3. (yes, I have ducked)

Any clues as to what to look for - or whether to bother at all would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

[mags]

Don't bother, Its a heavy bloated city suits car.
Sure its fast, but un-involving and built for motorways.
Buy an original E30 M3, a lovely drivers car, just needs a bit more power.

Not much help I know!!
Mags

[bennno]

I had a E36 M3 for about a year. I would say was one of the best cars i have owned, engine was tremendous and chassis very capable either cross country or round a track. Tail did come out regularly but was always very controllable.

Mine also did [according to the instruments] 170mph down the motorway and seemed to be devoid of the 155mph speed limiter. Lets just say Bristol to J12 Reading in 35mins was pretty good going.

Now they start from 11K upwards and a very nice one is 15-18K I think they are a performance bargain.

Only thing to watch is the servicing which is £500 a pop at 10k intervals. Mind you thats cheap compared to some specialist cars with similar hp.

For sure the E30 is less bloated but it suffers from being LHD, much smaller and older [but still very nice]. Depends if you want a track day car or one with GT / Everyday capabilities as well.

Bennno

[pdavison]

"GT / Everyday capabilities as well"

You hit the nail on the head with that one - that's exactly what I am looking for.

I drove an E30 (it was a soft top though) and I wasn't that impressed with the performance. It really needed to be revved to get anything out of it, which is not ideal for everyday use.

Thanks for the info so far...

Anyone else have a view on these ?

Cheers

Paul

[domster]

I have driven quite a few M3s, from the old E30 to a fully schnitzered E36 trackday car.

The E30 is good, but old fashioned now and not very quick.

The E36 is quicker, handles okay (unless fully shcnitzered when it is briliant), but its real forte is as a brilliant 'modern' everyday car. It never feels that fast to be honest, either. The engine is so linear that you never get a real shove, and performance markedly drops off above 140mph. Bennno - you must have had a long, long road (clear M4!) to see 170 as I was yawning away trying to get past 150 on the autobahn on a Nurburgring sortie!

However, without wishing to be *too* cheeky, Paul would be more than welcome to buy my Lotus Carlton for 11k. It is running superbly (on Optimax, so probably pushing out 385bhp) and feels a damn sight quicker than any E36 I've driven. Torque is 420 ft/lbs which could explain it.

However, as a big saloon it isn't that much fun around the twisty bits (unless it's wet!) and running costs are at least as high as the M3. It also has a rubbish interior compared to the bimmer, but can't have it all!

Cheers
Domster

[flasher]

"170mph down the motorway"

In the words of Mr Royle "My arse"

As for wanting a BMW? Well my advice would be to look around at Merc AMG c-class and other things like that, basicaly anything but a BMW.....
I hate them and must quote (again!) Russell Bulgin of EVO and Car magazine:-

Quote:-

"I detest BMW drivers.In fact it's not so much the cars themselves but because the owners tailgating/thrusting/hair gelled/won't let you turn right/up the bus lane/bad sunglasses/middle lane undertaking/relentless solipsism does not communicate any aspirational marque values to me at all"



Good, so it's not just me then......

[bennno]

quote:
"170mph down the motorway"

In the words of Mr Royle "My arse"

Your Ass it is then, Mr Reeves was with me for proof. Did not say that it was the true speed but it was what the instruments were saying....there seemed to be no limiter and it was 2.00 in the morning. Mind you when you think about it 320bhp in an aerodynamic body should do that sort of speed (give or take 5mph) with the right gearing no probs.

Had the AMG Merc, good fun but nothing like the chassis feel and automatic - but still able to keep up with a certain 5L convertable embarassingly well.

Blah, blah, blah, battleship grey, blah, blah, bang, blah, blah, £££££, blah, blah, how much..

Ben

[flasher]

Mr Reeves???

Must have been Vic Reeves the comedian.....

[Hazzer]

Domster,

Does that mean your LC is no longer a big green garden ornament at Thetford...???

Haz

[domster]

Hi Haz,

Yup, it is back from its sabbatical and running even better than the monkeys at Hethel ever anticipated!

Rgds
Domster

[Hazzer]

Glad to hear it!

How long was it sitting there, I remember being told at least 6 months....! Till the marshmonster was able to finish it!

Haz

[Cotty]

quote:
"170mph down the motorway"

In the words of Mr Royle "My arse"

As for wanting a BMW? Well my advice would be to look around at Merc AMG c-class and other things like that, basicaly anything but a BMW.....
I hate them and must quote (again!) Russell Bulgin of EVO and Car magazine:-

Quote:-

"I detest BMW drivers.In fact it's not so much the cars themselves but because the owners tailgating/thrusting/hair gelled/won't let you turn right/up the bus lane/bad sunglasses/middle lane undertaking/relentless solipsism does not communicate any aspirational marque values to me at all"



Good, so it's not just me then......

Hhhmmm let me get this straight, you would never buy a BMW because of the type of people that drive them.
By that rational if all Mclaren F1 drivers were then you would never want to own one.

I bought my BMW to to long motorway trips that were a pain in the ass to do in my TVR S1. It carries all my karting gear with ease, its a solid reliable motor with comperable performance to my S1.

If someone is a behind the wheel it does not matter what they are driving. As for Russell Bulgin he test drives the cars so surely he detests himself everytime he drives a BMW.

I hate generalisations

[domster]

Something like that - I can remember at least one tax disc expiring! The Hotel Marsh was very accommodating, but the vacation still brought tears to my eyes. Unreliable parts supply from Vauxhall/Lotus accounted for half the time off road, at a guess. The marshmonster's other commitments accounted for the rest.

I became quite acquainted with my Rover 414i second car in the time, so that could be why the Lotus feels so quick!!!

[CarZee]

quote:I hate generalisations

Specific ones or just generalisations in general?

[Roadrunner]

I'm looking at a wide range of fast cars for my next new purchase in the summer, ranging from lotus, bmw, audi, porsche, mitsubishi etc. I'm looking at how much fun they will be to drive whilst being reasonably practical and reliable, with good residuals. What I'm not looking at is how other small minded individuals will perceive me due to petty details like badge / stereotyping bullshit etc. I think this stereotyping comes from when you drive, ie: at rush hour commuting - your always going to see the worst of people at this time. What is it with some people trying to pigeonhole others based soley on a cars badge? At the end of the day these cars are all damn good for spirited driving. Forget others opinion and go for what you will enjoy.

[Cotty]

here here

You only have to look at my previous cars to see that I dont exactly fit into the twisted you drive this car so your this type of person catagory

Paul

[Drive by Mocking]

I owned an E36 M3 Evo for just over 2 years and covered 90,000 miles.
As you may suspect this car was my life & home.

If you use the vehicle regularly it is just the best I have owned. Its forte is undertaking long journeys on all types of road.
It can storm down motorways - witness benno's comments.
It is great on fast A and B roads.
It will allow a full 12 hours of driving and still allow the driver to get out and do a days work.
However I have driven cars that are more fun but I could not do the long journeys with them. It is hard work to use on tight B roads with sharp bends where it is prone to understeer on entry to the bend followed by a large wedge of oversteer on exit.

Shortcomings to watch out for:-
Rear suspensions bushes will fail around 80,000 miles, the replacements failed 40,000 miles later. If they fail there will be some instability at the rear end which will help to make a tail happy car even more tail happy.
Exhaust system is bloody expensive and fails after about 6 years.
Servicing at main dealers is expensive.
Car is fickle when cold (first 15 miles) - stiff gearbox, uneven running, high fuel consumption.

Best bits:-
Deep hard edged engine that goes on for ever.
Adequate power to blow many vehicles off the road - (only at illegal speeds though - at lower speeds there are many cars that can keep up/beat it)
Good reliability
Loads of grip in the dry - in the wet, see above.

In summary:
It is not a show car - there are more impressive vehicles
As a total ownership package, I have found nothing to match it if you do loads of miles and still want to enjoy driving.

[flasher]

quote:
here here

You only have to look at my previous cars to see that I dont exactly fit into the twisted you drive this car so your this type of person catagory

Paul

Yes, Mr Sensitive, whatever you say. I wasn't generalising really, except to say that SO many tossers drive BMW's that I hate them, I detest them. I dont give a flying whether they are good or not. I don't want one and never will.

You are probably not an inconsiderate driver and probably don't fit Russell Bulgin's description, but I'm afraid many people who own BM's DO fit that description whether you like it or not.

It's my opinion that many BM's are bought wholly as a status symbol rather than a drivers car. However, there are always exceptions to every rule mate......

[philshort]

Have to agree with that last one. I personally know someone who not only has a BMW for the status in infers (in his eyes), he also pays through the nose for a house in the "right" part of Birmingham for exactly the same reason.

Life's way too short to be quite that anal about what others think of your "status". Generally (I love generalisations, generally they're true!) the folk who are so uptight about status don't have any. Any everyone laughs at their pretence to it.

It's a great shame in the case of BMW, they make some very fine cars, but a great number of people will not buy them because of the negative image.

>> Edited by philshort on Friday 1st February 18:26

[Jason F]

I used to have a Black BMW, which was lowered, had BMW 3 spokes and was basically a gangsta car...

The looks I got when I drove it playing Celine Dion loudly were funny as hell.....NOT what people were expecting to hear..