Discussion
I need a weekend car to complement my A8. I've run 911s for years but fancy something a bit more raw and without the running costs of a GT3. Current contenders are Caterham R300 or Lotus Elise.
I'm test driving a yellow 111R from Merrits in Amersham on Monday,(nice spec but no aircon) and casually asked about the differences which separate Elise from Exige. I guess I was suprised by quite how hardcore the sales chap considered Exige's to be.
The car will be used simply for driving about at weekends and occasionally the 15 mile trip to work. Assume a max of 1 track day a year.
I'b be interested in your thoughts in a number of areas:
1) Toyota engined Elise Vs Exige from people who've driven both
2) Whether the Toyota engined Elise is worth the price premium
2) Does aircon matter
2) Lotus Vs Caterham from anyone who's had both
Thanks
I'm test driving a yellow 111R from Merrits in Amersham on Monday,(nice spec but no aircon) and casually asked about the differences which separate Elise from Exige. I guess I was suprised by quite how hardcore the sales chap considered Exige's to be.
The car will be used simply for driving about at weekends and occasionally the 15 mile trip to work. Assume a max of 1 track day a year.
I'b be interested in your thoughts in a number of areas:
1) Toyota engined Elise Vs Exige from people who've driven both
2) Whether the Toyota engined Elise is worth the price premium
2) Does aircon matter
2) Lotus Vs Caterham from anyone who's had both
Thanks
Edited by james S on Friday 17th October 14:19
Personally, I wouldn't buy an S2 Elise as a weekend car - far too civilised. An S1 Exige and/or S1 Sport190/160 would be OK but I'd probably go for the Caterham.
I wouldn't consider an S2 Exige too hardcore for daily use, although you might want to change the tyres if you're going to drive much in the wet.
If you want a Lotus, try a Honda engined S1 Exige.
I wouldn't consider an S2 Exige too hardcore for daily use, although you might want to change the tyres if you're going to drive much in the wet.
If you want a Lotus, try a Honda engined S1 Exige.
Edited by kambites on Friday 17th October 14:24
James, hello and welcome.
To put my answers in context, my Lotus CV reads as follows...
- 5.5 years of ownership
- 4 Elises owned (Std S1, S1 Sport 160 mildly tweaked, S2 NA Honda with lots of mods, S1 Sport 135 with lots of mods)
- Have driven S2 111S, 111R, NA Exige, Exige S, Exige Cup 240
- Have passengered in S2 135R, S2 SC Honda'd Elise lots of mods, S2 NA Exige with remap, S1 SC Honda'd Exige with literally every mod you can buy
Have a mate with extensive Caterham experience who's been in all my cars, and has scared the bejeesus out of me in Superlight R's on several occasions.
What I reckon...
1) Toyota engined Elise Vs Exige from people who've driven both
For your use, I'd go for an Elise. Various reasons including more suitable ride on OEM suspension and tyres, roof off ability without hassle, better all round visibility and I believe lighter weight.
2) Whether the Toyota engined Elise is worth the price premium
The K-series engines and Toyota engines are so different, you simply must drive both to decide which you prefer. Alongside that you have elements to consider which include build quality, weight, specification differences, potentially drive-by-wire throttle, ABS, servoed brakes vs. non-servoed etc. Personally my overriding thoughts are that I prefer the K-series engines, but the Toyota engined cars are more resolved in terms of build quality and trim standard. Do I think they are worth a premium in today's market, bearing in mind your intended use. Absolutely not.
3) Does aircon matter
IMO, no. It's useful for demisting the windscreen (more effective than the blowers), but in summer if it's hot you should have the flipping roof off anyway!
4) Lotus Vs Caterham from anyone who's had both
Lotus is much more useable, but the Caterham (IMO) is the more involving drivers car for driving on or over the edge. Lotus is all about ride and handling, incredible lateral grip and poise, but can be twitchy on the limit and hard to catch once over it. That said, learning how far you can push the car (safely) is a truly enjoyable pursuit that I cannot recommend highly enough.
As I'm a bit of a frustrated rally driver wannabee, I'm currently pouring over the Caterham classifieds so that I can get one for something a bit different (front-engined, rear wheel drive, arse-out looning) with less power. I wouldn't consider one if I couldn't garage it, and I'd be reticent about doing long distances in it, whereas the Elise will take you comfortably through Europe without breaking into a sweat.
Both are very compelling ownership propositions for a 2nd car IMO. A lovely choice to have to make!
To put my answers in context, my Lotus CV reads as follows...
- 5.5 years of ownership
- 4 Elises owned (Std S1, S1 Sport 160 mildly tweaked, S2 NA Honda with lots of mods, S1 Sport 135 with lots of mods)
- Have driven S2 111S, 111R, NA Exige, Exige S, Exige Cup 240
- Have passengered in S2 135R, S2 SC Honda'd Elise lots of mods, S2 NA Exige with remap, S1 SC Honda'd Exige with literally every mod you can buy
Have a mate with extensive Caterham experience who's been in all my cars, and has scared the bejeesus out of me in Superlight R's on several occasions.
What I reckon...
1) Toyota engined Elise Vs Exige from people who've driven both
For your use, I'd go for an Elise. Various reasons including more suitable ride on OEM suspension and tyres, roof off ability without hassle, better all round visibility and I believe lighter weight.
2) Whether the Toyota engined Elise is worth the price premium
The K-series engines and Toyota engines are so different, you simply must drive both to decide which you prefer. Alongside that you have elements to consider which include build quality, weight, specification differences, potentially drive-by-wire throttle, ABS, servoed brakes vs. non-servoed etc. Personally my overriding thoughts are that I prefer the K-series engines, but the Toyota engined cars are more resolved in terms of build quality and trim standard. Do I think they are worth a premium in today's market, bearing in mind your intended use. Absolutely not.
3) Does aircon matter
IMO, no. It's useful for demisting the windscreen (more effective than the blowers), but in summer if it's hot you should have the flipping roof off anyway!
4) Lotus Vs Caterham from anyone who's had both
Lotus is much more useable, but the Caterham (IMO) is the more involving drivers car for driving on or over the edge. Lotus is all about ride and handling, incredible lateral grip and poise, but can be twitchy on the limit and hard to catch once over it. That said, learning how far you can push the car (safely) is a truly enjoyable pursuit that I cannot recommend highly enough.
As I'm a bit of a frustrated rally driver wannabee, I'm currently pouring over the Caterham classifieds so that I can get one for something a bit different (front-engined, rear wheel drive, arse-out looning) with less power. I wouldn't consider one if I couldn't garage it, and I'd be reticent about doing long distances in it, whereas the Elise will take you comfortably through Europe without breaking into a sweat.
Both are very compelling ownership propositions for a 2nd car IMO. A lovely choice to have to make!
Firstly SWorks gave me loads of realy top advice when I bought my car and I think he's pretty much spot on again
Personaly I find Aircon realy usefull. Stuck in traffic on a hot day its a lifesaver and if its a bit muggy but wet you can keep cool without getting wet .. there is quite a lot of heatsoak from the engine.
I was looking for a 111S or a Yota S when I got mine with no preferance engine wise I got the S as it was the right colour and spec for me
Personaly I find Aircon realy usefull. Stuck in traffic on a hot day its a lifesaver and if its a bit muggy but wet you can keep cool without getting wet .. there is quite a lot of heatsoak from the engine.
I was looking for a 111S or a Yota S when I got mine with no preferance engine wise I got the S as it was the right colour and spec for me
I had a Tiger Cat E1 and came to the Elise from that. In comparison the Elise is practical, boot, roof etc. Child seat fits in the Elise and if you needed to you could use it everyday.
I love my Elise and it is the only car i have owned that i do not want to sell. If i was the only thing i would consider is an Exige S with soft top conversion as i love having the roof off. The Exige S will be a lot easier to live with and less hardcore than my 160.
D
I love my Elise and it is the only car i have owned that i do not want to sell. If i was the only thing i would consider is an Exige S with soft top conversion as i love having the roof off. The Exige S will be a lot easier to live with and less hardcore than my 160.
D
Dave L said:
340R?
At different times I have had an S2 Elise (my daily driver) and a Caterham Superlight (2nd car).
I find my 340R sits somewhere in between. (And i could be tempted to part with it if need be.)
Fast enough, rare as hell, gets noticed, and awesome fun.
If its not for the track the roofless nature would be a bit limiting imhoAt different times I have had an S2 Elise (my daily driver) and a Caterham Superlight (2nd car).
I find my 340R sits somewhere in between. (And i could be tempted to part with it if need be.)
Fast enough, rare as hell, gets noticed, and awesome fun.
miro said:
Dave L said:
340R?
At different times I have had an S2 Elise (my daily driver) and a Caterham Superlight (2nd car).
I find my 340R sits somewhere in between. (And i could be tempted to part with it if need be.)
Fast enough, rare as hell, gets noticed, and awesome fun.
If its not for the track the roofless nature would be a bit limiting imhoAt different times I have had an S2 Elise (my daily driver) and a Caterham Superlight (2nd car).
I find my 340R sits somewhere in between. (And i could be tempted to part with it if need be.)
Fast enough, rare as hell, gets noticed, and awesome fun.
But I ran an aeroscreened 7 for 3 years so find the 340R positively luxurious in contrast so felt it sat somewhere in between.
Also (bar the S1 Exige) which other Lotus will retain its value so well?
Dave L said:
miro said:
Dave L said:
340R?
At different times I have had an S2 Elise (my daily driver) and a Caterham Superlight (2nd car).
I find my 340R sits somewhere in between. (And i could be tempted to part with it if need be.)
Fast enough, rare as hell, gets noticed, and awesome fun.
If its not for the track the roofless nature would be a bit limiting imhoAt different times I have had an S2 Elise (my daily driver) and a Caterham Superlight (2nd car).
I find my 340R sits somewhere in between. (And i could be tempted to part with it if need be.)
Fast enough, rare as hell, gets noticed, and awesome fun.
But I ran an aeroscreened 7 for 3 years so find the 340R positively luxurious in contrast so felt it sat somewhere in between.
Also (bar the S1 Exige) which other Lotus will retain its value so well?
Maybe not as much £ but no or very little depreciation.Edited by DamienCBR on Friday 17th October 16:14
Personally, I'd go down the Caterham route.
I've had both and couldn't help but see the Elise as a halfway house between a 'normal' car and a lightweight weekend car. The values championed by Lotus are taken a step further in a Caterham.
If you have no need for practicality in your weekend car, you might as well go all the way - who needs doors...?!
I've had both and couldn't help but see the Elise as a halfway house between a 'normal' car and a lightweight weekend car. The values championed by Lotus are taken a step further in a Caterham.
If you have no need for practicality in your weekend car, you might as well go all the way - who needs doors...?!
Edited by Risotto on Friday 17th October 16:19
Buy an Exige DO IT DO IT. i miss mine like mad. However an 111R is possible a better option for you if you like the elise but want the rawness of the Exige. an elise is not an Exige i grant you, however remember the 111R does have the same engine. Oh and if you buy either remove the stadard exhaust and change the induction kit. The prepare to smile.
Stage 2 and pipercross induction was on mine when i purchased it..... AWESOME SOUND and the grin factor is second to none.
Stage 2 and pipercross induction was on mine when i purchased it..... AWESOME SOUND and the grin factor is second to none.
L888DER said:
Buy an Exige DO IT DO IT. i miss mine like mad. However an 111R is possible a better option for you if you like the elise but want the rawness of the Exige. an elise is not an Exige i grant you, however remember the 111R does have the same engine. Oh and if you buy either remove the stadard exhaust and change the induction kit. The prepare to smile.
Stage 2 and pipercross induction was on mine when i purchased it..... AWESOME SOUND and the grin factor is second to none.
seconded.Stage 2 and pipercross induction was on mine when i purchased it..... AWESOME SOUND and the grin factor is second to none.
Sport 160 with change for new suspension and a decent engine fettle. Will be lighter and faster than a 111R, and a hell of a lot cheaper. james S said:
2) Whether the Toyota engined Elise is worth the price premium
If you are used to the reliability of a 911 - yes. The S2 yota engined car is reasonably civilisedjames S said:
2) Does aircon matter
Yes! The Elise has cr*p ventilation / heating. On mine the air comes out of the vents at 10 deg C above ambient even with the heater turned off and Lotus say this is normal. So if you ever have to drive on a warm summer day with the hood up, you will need aircon or a towel. For track only a Caterham would be worth considering. For road an elise, for road and track, an exige.
I am not sure about Caterhams on the road though - if anyone drives into you, you might as well be on a motorbike for all the protection they have (lack of), especially in the event of a side impact.
I am not sure about Caterhams on the road though - if anyone drives into you, you might as well be on a motorbike for all the protection they have (lack of), especially in the event of a side impact.
bordseye said:
james S said:
2) Whether the Toyota engined Elise is worth the price premium
If you are used to the reliability of a 911 - yes. The S2 yota engined car is reasonably civilisedjames S said:
2) Does aircon matter
Yes! The Elise has cr*p ventilation / heating. On mine the air comes out of the vents at 10 deg C above ambient even with the heater turned off and Lotus say this is normal. So if you ever have to drive on a warm summer day with the hood up, you will need aircon or a towel. Opening the windows makes matters worse as you get heat soak from the radiator area up front. My ventilation (S1 Elise) works very well so on damp but warm days (like this summer) its windows closed, all air through the dash vents and those vents angled at the driver. Nice and comfy then
In your shoes I'd try and drive as many varients as I could before making a decision.
FWIW I reckon the ideal is an S1 with Nitron dampers and the engine uprated to about 160/170 bhp. Spend £500 on some in car music and fit some better seats and harnesses and you have a car you cheerfully travel across the country to track days in and have fun on track too. That's pretty well what I've done to my car (engine upgrades next year) and I honestly can't think of anything I'd want to change it for at the moment. When I'm struggling to get in and out I'll probably change to an Exige S (lower sills than the S1).
In your shoes I'd try and drive as many varients as I could before making a decision.
FWIW I reckon the ideal is an S1 with Nitron dampers and the engine uprated to about 160/170 bhp. Spend £500 on some in car music and fit some better seats and harnesses and you have a car you cheerfully travel across the country to track days in and have fun on track too. That's pretty well what I've done to my car (engine upgrades next year) and I honestly can't think of anything I'd want to change it for at the moment. When I'm struggling to get in and out I'll probably change to an Exige S (lower sills than the S1).
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