Congestion Charge penalty - a moot point

[audidoody]

I've been sent a Congestion Charge Penalty Charge notice for paying by SMS but putting a wrong letter in the reg number. OK - sh*t happens. . But they won't refund the original £8.

It seems to me that if they keep the original £8 Congestion Charge they are tacitly accepting payment was made and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice is null and void.

It might make an interesting legal precedent if I successfully challenged the £8 retention.

Or not.

[robinhood21]

I believe you can reclaim the £8, or at least one used to be able to - trouble being, it cost £10 to do so. Bastids!

[109 Bob]

Yep been there done that, paid the fine & the £8. They do like having their cake & eating it

[Scraggles]

looking at the new ford econotec ? for company car, seems it is immune to the congestion charge soon, if so going to make working in south london a lot easier, just nip across central london than having to skirt around the outskirts

[audidoody]

109 Bob said:

Yep been there done that, paid the fine & the £8. They do like having their cake & eating it

For the extra £2 maybe I'll give them some paperwork to do!

[Globulator]

audidoody said:

I've been sent a Congestion Charge Penalty Charge notice for paying by SMS but putting a wrong letter in the reg number. OK - sh*t happens. . But they won't refund the original £8.

It seems to me that if they keep the original £8 Congestion Charge they are tacitly accepting payment was made and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice is null and void.

It might make an interesting legal precedent if I successfully challenged the £8 retention.

Or not.

I cannot see how you could lose in court.
You are still entitled to a court hearing for fines IIRC.

[anonymous-user]

Scraggles said:

looking at the new ford econotec ? for company car, seems it is immune to the congestion charge soon, if so going to make working in south london a lot easier, just nip across central london than having to skirt around the outskirts

So how does a less-polluting car cause less to congestion? It's just as big as any other car.
Biggest con going, the sooner Boris bins it the better.

[audidoody]

Globulator said:

audidoody said:

I've been sent a Congestion Charge Penalty Charge notice for paying by SMS but putting a wrong letter in the reg number. OK - sh*t happens. . But they won't refund the original £8.

It seems to me that if they keep the original £8 Congestion Charge they are tacitly accepting payment was made and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice is null and void.

It might make an interesting legal precedent if I successfully challenged the £8 retention.

Or not.

I cannot see how you could lose in court.
You are still entitled to a court hearing for fines IIRC.

Don't think so. They've sent me a four-page parking appeals form but it only covers six excuses (none of which cover making an honest mistake of keying in a wrong digit!). No way out of the £60 fine. It's not the £8 that matters. It's the vicious Stalinist TfL policy of never giving an inch - and smugly profiting from a policy of deliberate inflexibility.

[MrVelox]

Do what I used to do.. get fake plates

[Globulator]

audidoody said:

Globulator said:

audidoody said:

I've been sent a Congestion Charge Penalty Charge notice for paying by SMS but putting a wrong letter in the reg number. OK - sh*t happens. . But they won't refund the original £8.

It seems to me that if they keep the original £8 Congestion Charge they are tacitly accepting payment was made and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice is null and void.

It might make an interesting legal precedent if I successfully challenged the £8 retention.

Or not.

I cannot see how you could lose in court.
You are still entitled to a court hearing for fines IIRC.

Don't think so. They've sent me a four-page parking appeals form but it only covers six excuses (none of which cover making an honest mistake of keying in a wrong digit!). No way out of the £60 fine. It's not the £8 that matters. It's the vicious Stalinist TfL policy of never giving an inch - and smugly profiting from a policy of deliberate inflexibility.

I'd have a chat with Citizen's Advice - if you do not pay it has to go to court, at which stage you have proof of payment.

[big_rob_sydney]

Globulator said:

audidoody said:

Globulator said:

audidoody said:

I've been sent a Congestion Charge Penalty Charge notice for paying by SMS but putting a wrong letter in the reg number. OK - sh*t happens. . But they won't refund the original £8.

It seems to me that if they keep the original £8 Congestion Charge they are tacitly accepting payment was made and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice is null and void.

It might make an interesting legal precedent if I successfully challenged the £8 retention.

Or not.

I cannot see how you could lose in court.
You are still entitled to a court hearing for fines IIRC.

Don't think so. They've sent me a four-page parking appeals form but it only covers six excuses (none of which cover making an honest mistake of keying in a wrong digit!). No way out of the £60 fine. It's not the £8 that matters. It's the vicious Stalinist TfL policy of never giving an inch - and smugly profiting from a policy of deliberate inflexibility.

I'd have a chat with Citizen's Advice - if you do not pay it has to go to court, at which stage you have proof of payment.

I'd agree that a day in court would be best, if only to stick it to a government that look like bloodsuckers in this instance.

The sheer unfairness of this really blows.

[Martin Mac]

I appealed against exactly the same thing once after paying via Paypoint when I got home. As long as you get your appeal in quickly, they may well let you off, they did me.

I just was polite and said that it was plainly an easy mistake to make. They sent me a letter back saying that on this occasion, and this one only, they would let me off the fine....

[odyssey2200]

Surely If you can prove that they accepted payment ...job done.

[stuttgartmetal]

I put an errant 0 instead of a 1 in my reg.
I simply wrote them a letter, and they let me off.
Rac website will give you what car the "wrong" reg is on.

[LittleBro]

audidoody said:

109 Bob said:

Yep been there done that, paid the fine & the £8. They do like having their cake & eating it

For the extra £2 maybe I'll give them some paperwork to do!

Most satisfying £2 you'll ever spend. Do it

[audidoody]

odyssey2200 said:

Surely If you can prove that they accepted payment ...job done.

No go. I appealed the PCN and sent in proof (their receipt) that I had paid the £8 that day, but that I had miskeyed a number. Back came a three page letter basically saying "tough sh*t" and giving me 28 days to pay £60.

[whitechief]

MrVelox said:

Do what I used to do.. get fake plates

I hope that's a joke because some tosser cloned the plate of one of my cars and caused me a whole heap of trouble.

[109 Bob]

Globulator said:

audidoody said:

Globulator said:

audidoody said:

I've been sent a Congestion Charge Penalty Charge notice for paying by SMS but putting a wrong letter in the reg number. OK - sh*t happens. . But they won't refund the original £8.

It seems to me that if they keep the original £8 Congestion Charge they are tacitly accepting payment was made and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice is null and void.

It might make an interesting legal precedent if I successfully challenged the £8 retention.

Or not.

I cannot see how you could lose in court.
You are still entitled to a court hearing for fines IIRC.

Don't think so. They've sent me a four-page parking appeals form but it only covers six excuses (none of which cover making an honest mistake of keying in a wrong digit!). No way out of the £60 fine. It's not the £8 that matters. It's the vicious Stalinist TfL policy of never giving an inch - and smugly profiting from a policy of deliberate inflexibility.

I'd have a chat with Citizen's Advice - if you do not pay it has to go to court, at which stage you have proof of payment.

Does it have to go to court? I'm not so sure. You're more likely to get your vehicle clamped & incur lots of bailiff charges. I don't think it does go to court.

[Globulator]

Unless we have even less rights than I thought (which is quite possible) I thought with any fine you had a right to court. Even with speeding tickets.

Plus 3 pages of legalese is still meaningless unless backed up by the law, in effect the only 'contract' you had implicitly agreed to was that of paying £8 to enter the zone - which you did.

I would be quite confident of getting it to court and winning, although I suspect they will not push it that far - punishing people who have done no wrong is not very profitable..

I'd speak to Citizens Advice - paying £68 is much worse than £8. I wouldn't pay it because of:

1) You paid
2) You can prove that you paid
3) Any implicit contract was honoured.
4) It will discourage them from robbing others.

Also post in the 'Plod and Law' section.

BTW did you know Transport For London had about £50m in IceSave? Ha-Ha.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4914371.ece

[robinhood21]

I could be wrong on this, but as far as I know, no challenged CC PCN has ever made it to court. They always back down. Mind, as I say, I could be wrong on this.