Why does the pit lane close with the SC
Discussion
To stop the field continuing at race pace (or nearly) past the incident in order to get to the pits.
In most race series you race to the line, observing local yellows on the way, and pick up the safety car there.
However in most race series there is no need to refuel so no need to get back to the pits asap to refuel and gain advantage over those who don't, or those who pit behind you.
The consequence is a really unfortunate one but as the rule has been introduced in the interests of safety I don't see it being changed.
Especially as it mixes the field up and gives a greater chance of some overtakes on the track.
In most race series you race to the line, observing local yellows on the way, and pick up the safety car there.
However in most race series there is no need to refuel so no need to get back to the pits asap to refuel and gain advantage over those who don't, or those who pit behind you.
The consequence is a really unfortunate one but as the rule has been introduced in the interests of safety I don't see it being changed.
Especially as it mixes the field up and gives a greater chance of some overtakes on the track.
FNG said:
To stop the field continuing at race pace (or nearly) past the incident in order to get to the pits.
Im not sure i follow you here. Surely thats what the flags are for in the first place. Why the need to close the pits? how does that help from a safety point of view?I dont understand where the need to close the pits comes in to this. could you elaborate a bit more?
To me, it seems like a ridiculous rule! It penalises people for doing nothing wrong! I dont see why this rule needs to be in place. There might be a genuinly good reason for it, but I cant see it.
The idea is that if the pits are open then the drivers will tear around at full pace ignoring the yellows because they want to capitalise on pitting before they reach the safety car train. But if they know they're closed then they will honour the yellow flags.
I suppose that penalising somebody for not honouring a yellow flag could be open to a lot of mis-interpretation when applying the penalty.
I suppose that penalising somebody for not honouring a yellow flag could be open to a lot of mis-interpretation when applying the penalty.
what a load of rubbish!!! FIA is becoming a joke! So whats the point in having the flags then if the stewards are just going to assume they wont be adhered!
Its the kind of 'nannying' that we expect of the current uk government.
If they were really that worried about people zooming around under yellow flags, then surely they can just introduce a grid-wide limiter than can be turned on when an incident happens (similar to pit limiter). that way you could limit the max speed the drivers can go at....and 'Yes', they could easily do this. Not saying I would be for it, but its definately a better solution to the current one and it doesnt penalise those that actually NEED to pit.
Imagine a scene similar to US gp a few years back; safety car comes out, pit lane closes, 10 cars park up the side of track as they run out of fuel! Highly unlikely I know, but in theory it could happen.
Its the kind of 'nannying' that we expect of the current uk government.
If they were really that worried about people zooming around under yellow flags, then surely they can just introduce a grid-wide limiter than can be turned on when an incident happens (similar to pit limiter). that way you could limit the max speed the drivers can go at....and 'Yes', they could easily do this. Not saying I would be for it, but its definately a better solution to the current one and it doesnt penalise those that actually NEED to pit.
Imagine a scene similar to US gp a few years back; safety car comes out, pit lane closes, 10 cars park up the side of track as they run out of fuel! Highly unlikely I know, but in theory it could happen.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
If they were really that worried about people zooming around under yellow flags, then surely they can just introduce a grid-wide limiter than can be turned on when an incident happens (similar to pit limiter). that way you could limit the max speed the drivers can go at....and 'Yes', they could easily do this. Not saying I would be for it, but its definately a better solution to the current one and it doesnt penalise those that actually NEED to pit.
That's what they're doing already, genius. Do you even watch the racing? This closed pit rule has been in place for 2007 and 2008 already.
zac510 said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
If they were really that worried about people zooming around under yellow flags, then surely they can just introduce a grid-wide limiter than can be turned on when an incident happens (similar to pit limiter). that way you could limit the max speed the drivers can go at....and 'Yes', they could easily do this. Not saying I would be for it, but its definately a better solution to the current one and it doesnt penalise those that actually NEED to pit.
That's what they're doing already, genius. Do you even watch the racing? This closed pit rule has been in place for 2007 and 2008 already.
What is it exactly you are telling me they are already doing? have i missed your point?
As far as i know they dont limit the cars to a set mph whilst safety car is out, though i could be wrong (I just havent heard them introduce this).
Would have thought that simply enforcing half speed (or thereabouts) for double waved yellows would have been enough.
Telemetry should be available to check speeds are dropping low enough, making sure observers' opinions aren't the only check and balance.
Happy to be educated on this one - any marshals care to comment?
Telemetry should be available to check speeds are dropping low enough, making sure observers' opinions aren't the only check and balance.
Happy to be educated on this one - any marshals care to comment?
Spiritual_Beggar said:
What is it exactly you are telling me they are already doing? have i missed your point?
As far as i know they dont limit the cars to a set mph whilst safety car is out, though i could be wrong (I just havent heard them introduce this).
They are trying to develop this - here is the most recent article I can find. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67425As far as i know they dont limit the cars to a set mph whilst safety car is out, though i could be wrong (I just havent heard them introduce this).
It seems like the teams are holding it up somewhat (suprise!).
FNG, wouldn't inspecting telemetry leave race results open to post-race time penalties and that stuff we disliked so much a few weeks ago..
yeah, it would be a very controversial implementation.......think of the conspiracies between the Mclaren and Ferrari camps (its bad enough already 
). A Bad Idea IMO.
And why does it matter how quickly they get to the pit lane? surely they just end up behind the safety car in the end anyway.
). A Bad Idea IMO.And why does it matter how quickly they get to the pit lane? surely they just end up behind the safety car in the end anyway.
FNG said:
Would have thought that simply enforcing half speed (or thereabouts) for double waved yellows would have been enough.
Telemetry should be available to check speeds are dropping low enough, making sure observers' opinions aren't the only check and balance.
Happy to be educated on this one - any marshals care to comment?
As I see it, double waved yellows should suffice, but:Telemetry should be available to check speeds are dropping low enough, making sure observers' opinions aren't the only check and balance.
Happy to be educated on this one - any marshals care to comment?
1. It's very hard to quantify how much a driver needs to slow down and prove he has done so in real time. Telemetry is available but that needs to be analysed after the race, etc when the incident has passed.
We would then face penalties after races have finished. And we don't like that do we sportsfans?
And, more importantly
2. A driver can ignore waved yellows and, rather than an advantage issue, this becomes a pure safety issue. Witness Alonso in Brazil in 2004 IIRC. Wet track, ignored the yellows, ploughed straight into another car and very nearly hurt himself quite substantially.
I think the auto-limiter is the way forward but this is open to mechanical failure such as engaging at the wrong time, etc. A safety car isn't.
I don't mind the 'safety car' lottery too much. It's a not-too-artificial way of mixing the field up and, if you plan correctly like Mclaren seem to, you'd have to be very unfortunate or stupid to get caught out. They were stupid in Germany, BMW were unfortunate in Singapore.
Some fair points, but...
Telemetry is real-time. We already get sufficient data on-screen for certain cars during the race, why would it need analysing later?
It wouldn't be so hard to obtain and read data from all the cars relative to a given speed at every corner apex, and flag it in real time as they pass by.
I realise that it's no easy task to achieve a particular speed in a race car with no speedometer, but that should encourage caution and if a driver underestimates his speed, tough.
The alternative of electronically enforcing a speed restriction regardless of driver input or location on the track sounds inherently more dangerous to me. Not surprised the teams are resisting.
Telemetry is real-time. We already get sufficient data on-screen for certain cars during the race, why would it need analysing later?
It wouldn't be so hard to obtain and read data from all the cars relative to a given speed at every corner apex, and flag it in real time as they pass by.
I realise that it's no easy task to achieve a particular speed in a race car with no speedometer, but that should encourage caution and if a driver underestimates his speed, tough.
The alternative of electronically enforcing a speed restriction regardless of driver input or location on the track sounds inherently more dangerous to me. Not surprised the teams are resisting.
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