11,000 IT migrants enter UK in a year!

[69 coupe]

Wow 11,000 IT migrants a year, do we need that many? are their skills much better than UK's or are they just cheaper labour.
According to the link some of these IT companies bring their staff over, train them up in UK ways then shut the UK operation down, and reopen up the business abroad.
Sounds ship to me!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3022423/Ind...

[Disco_Dale]

69 coupe said:

Wow 11,000 IT migrants a year, do we need that many? are their skills much better than UK's or are they just cheaper labour.
According to the link some of these IT companies bring their staff over, train them up in UK ways then shut the UK operation down, and reopen up the business abroad.
Sounds ship to me!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3022423/Ind...

My brother runs a web design business which has taken off over the last couple of years. Despite advertising for and trying several freelancers that advertise locally, he's been subbing work out to a bloke in India, because he does the business, doesn't bullsh*t about his ability and meets deadlines consistently.
None of the UK guys he gave work to could do the same.

Could be a big part of the reason.

[ewenm]

Disco_Dale said:

69 coupe said:

Wow 11,000 IT migrants a year, do we need that many? are their skills much better than UK's or are they just cheaper labour.
According to the link some of these IT companies bring their staff over, train them up in UK ways then shut the UK operation down, and reopen up the business abroad.
Sounds ship to me!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3022423/Ind...

My brother runs a web design business which has taken off over the last couple of years. Despite advertising for and trying several freelancers that advertise locally, he's been subbing work out to a bloke in India, because he does the business, doesn't bullsh*t about his ability and meets deadlines consistently.
None of the UK guys he gave work to could do the same.

Could be a big part of the reason.

Whereas last time I worked with "out-sourced labour" the output needed A LOT of rework and they weren't keen to do it. So, as usual, it all depends on the individuals you find.

[bga]

Lots of large IT companies get non-EU resource over to the UK because they want to quote low prices for work and fulfill clients requirement to get bums on seats onsite. Abuse of the system is rife with tourist visa's being used by some to get people onto projects while the official visa is sorted out.

The skills & experience claimed on many offshore CV's I receive doesn't bear scrutiny at interview which is frustrating. I can only imagine that there are lots of highly skilled/tier 1 visa's which have been granted based on falsified info.

I sponsor a couple of non-EU employees, but they are part of a team with a very niche skill set & getting people with suitable ability & experience is hard at the best of times. For commoditised roles the main justification can only be price in the majority of cases.

[londonbabe]

IT immigrants probably means Aussies and Saffers. No worries mate.

Outsourcing developement to India results in one thing. Having to employ people in England to redo it properly so your company doesn't look like a bunch of idiots.

Indians do not know a bloody thing about web development past the state of the art in 1998. They are cheap because they are crap. Especially Satyam. If you have a contract with them, pull it.

I could tell you why they are useless, but who cares? just don't waste your time or money outsourcing.

[69 coupe]

About 1 year ago I went for an IT contract interview with GE capital had the interview with one migrant Indian guy and a migrant South African, they grilled me about what not and more than related to the role, the contract was only for 3 months, I asked was there any extension or rolling contract answer was no.

They told me they were waiting for a visa so they could bring in another Indian migrant worker to do the job I was applying for.

I was offered the position but turned it down, had another contract lined up.
But the irony of the situation wasn't lost on me, seeming that I was the English guy looking for work in England been interviewed by two foreigners.
Just seemed a weird experience.

Edited by 69 coupe on Sunday 21st September 01:07

[fido]

69 coupe said:

I was offered the position but turned it down, had another contract lined up.
But the irony of the situation wasn't lost on me, seeming that I was the English guy looking for work in England been interviewed by two foreigners.
Just seemed a weird experience.

perhaps it's payback time for the colonial days?

just kidding.

[thehawk]

On the whole, IT workers from SA, Australia or NZ are better than their British counterparts.

[bga]

thehawk said:

On the whole, IT workers from SA, Australia or NZ are better than their British counterparts.

I can't say that I share that opinion when comparing like for like skills & experience vs British or European IT bods.

[Puggit]

I go down to SA on business every couple of months, and I work in IT. Everyone I meet is asking how to get in to the UK.

I just tell them to turn up!

[bga]

londonbabe said:

Outsourcing developement to India results in one thing. Having to employ people in England to redo it properly so your company doesn't look like a bunch of idiots.

It depends entirely on how you enter your outsourcing agreement & supplier selection is key. Go for the lowest cost option & you can't be surprised when you get muppets.
I've worked with some appauling offshore resource and some very good ones. The difference is in how the contracts are structured around skill requirements & approval of resources.

[garycat]

My company has started bringing guys in from the Ukraine and Macedonia as they cost less than Indian workers and far less than UK workers. e.g.

UK - $1000 per day
Indian - $200 per day
Macedonian -$100 per day

They are generally good workers, but one had to be escorted off the premises and back to the airport for downloading porn movies using our client's phat pipe.

[Dupont666]

they are generally not too bad, but lie about their standard of experience, i had two sacked a while ago for bein experts in SQL and JAVA, it turns out they had 2months knowledge between them, they were on the plane back in quick time. Dont mind teaching and helping them but taking the piss is too much on big contracts.

[215cu]

Found it very hit and miss...

A lot of bullstting as well, CV's that are a litany of lies. There are some good people but as attrition rates with off/nearshore is so high, the best simply chase the money.

[Pickled Piper]

The majority of the IT migrants from India are net contributors to the UK economy. They pay tax and NI. Granted they make life harder for indigenous IT workers.

Surely, we should be more concerned about immigrants coming through other channels with no other objective than to milk the benefits systems?

pp

[thehawk]

215cu said:

Found it very hit and miss...

A lot of bullstting as well, CV's that are a litany of lies. There are some good people but as attrition rates with off/nearshore is so high, the best simply chase the money.

Goes with the territory, Brits also bullst a lot on their CV's when they go to work in Australia, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong etc. The old saying was that people used to write their CV's on the plane to Hong Kong.

[SS HSV]

fido said:

69 coupe said:

I was offered the position but turned it down, had another contract lined up.
But the irony of the situation wasn't lost on me, seeming that I was the English guy looking for work in England been interviewed by two foreigners.
Just seemed a weird experience.

perhaps it's payback time for the colonial days?

just kidding.

Quoted for accuracy!

[Swoxy]

Three out of four of the Indian guys I have rented properties to in the last couple of months have been here on skilled visas because of IT.

[FunkyNige]

londonbabe said:

Outsourcing developement to India results in one thing. Having to employ people in England to redo it properly so your company doesn't look like a bunch of idiots.

One of our clients have in their contract with us that if we use an offshore centre we have to tell them what work they've done, allow the client to check it, and if the client doesn't like it they'll ban us from using that offshore centre again.

[SleeperCell]

londonbabe said:

IT immigrants probably means Aussies and Saffers. No worries mate.

Most of them wont be on skilled visas though, technically I am an IT worker and Australian, but am on the Ancestry visa, I know others who came in on working holiday visas. Some get sponsored to stay, but most are leaving or have left now the economy has turned to crap.