Early S2 or this.......

[pattyg]

http://pistonheads.com/sales/706954.htm

Now first of all I am not here to do any Lotus bashing as I am one of their biggest fans and had the pleasure of owning an early S1 for 2 years.

Been thinking of getting another Elise for a while now, probably an early S2 but having looked around the market I think my alligance has changed given the downturn in Boxster prices.

Views anyone.

Edited by pattyg on Monday 15th September 22:18

[bogie]

well regardless of car, you are comparing say a 6 yr old S2 to an 8 yr old Porsche ?

An extended warranty would be a good thing, on any £40-50K car at that age, as if anything goes wrong, its not going to be a £200 fix.

As for the car, as daily driver sportscars go, if you couldnt cope with the rawness of an Elise and want more comfort then a Boxster is really where its at I think.

Ive not owned one, but spent a week in one as my hire car whilst in the US, used it daily and must have done 1K miles in it, if not more. A nice car, enough performance for some fun on real B roads, practical and comfy...even if it feels a little 'ordinary' inside, it is very capable at what it does.

Its only really the image thing you have to get used to....but you get an 'image' problem with any car really, its just which 'image'

[peter2704]

that looks a nice one ,toying with the idea myself,now prices are low,a lot of car

[nick_j007]

What Bogie says

That car looks really clean and tidy, and I've just bout a 29k mile S2 111s for similar money, so that looks well priced in that light.

Overall condition more than the miles as long as it's well serviced and cared for of course.

Nick

[Hollywood Wheels]

I'd say that the two cars are chalk and cheese really. If it's not going to be a daily driver than I'd get the Lotus for sure. And I'd also forget the early S2, and get a late S1 instead....

[F.C.]

I had a 3.2s from new in 2003, I really rated it at the time.
The only thing it lacked was a bit more power (IMO) I sold it after a year and bought an M3, I wished I had kept the Boxster instead.
Go for the face-lift model if you can afford it (glass rear screen, better interior etc,)
for Example (nothing to do with me by the way)
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/398857.htm

F.C.

[piooly]

wow that is a good price!! I'd get the Boxster S over an early S2. You get so much more for your money too!! Depends what car your after but the boxster is a fantastic car to drive and cheap to service, infact servicing is the same cost as an elise because the service/time interval is much longer on the Porsche. Parts can be steep but it should'nt go wrong anyway.....

I'm been tempted at the moment with the idea of a 911. Never been in one though. How similar to a boxster are they?

[andy_s]

piooly said:

I'm been tempted at the moment with the idea of a 911. Never been in one though. How similar to a boxster are they?

I think you'll find a fair few 911s on the market going cheap in the next month or so...

[kevin ritson]

Do your homework first. A 111S will cost you around £100-300 a year to service and if you get AA parts and labour cover, not much in repairs. Check Boxster running costs and see where they come in. Fuel and tax will certainly be costlier with the Porker.

Reliability isn't really an issue - you may get HGF with the Elise, you may get RMS failure on the Boxster.

[bogie]

piooly said:

wow that is a good price!! I'd get the Boxster S over an early S2. You get so much more for your money too!! Depends what car your after but the boxster is a fantastic car to drive and cheap to service, infact servicing is the same cost as an elise because the service/time interval is much longer on the Porsche. Parts can be steep but it should'nt go wrong anyway.....

I'm been tempted at the moment with the idea of a 911. Never been in one though. How similar to a boxster are they?

very very different to drive, as a 911 has the engine out the back. I really got on well with the Boxster I had for a week, but every time Ive driven a 911 Its felt awful at the limit ...admittedly its a while since I drove the dumbed down, road versions with PASM and such like, (that mask it) - in recent years Ive only driven full on GTs and RSRs ...and in the 30 mins Ive had, by the end of it Im just so frustrated at myself and the car, that it dosent do what I want ...a damn site easier to get into a front or mid engined car.

Of course they are a fine car, highly accomplished, very quick etc ..but they are an aquired taste to drive - on the limit, on track - most owners dont even realise of course, they are just posing around;) ..as as 'sportscar' they dont do it for me - inside they are like any German saloon, so no sense of occasion, and to drive - plain weird (to me) ...nah...Id sooner have a Boxster or Cayman, if it had to be German, regardless of power ...if you want to go fast, there are far cheaper ways, that DO handle more 'traditionally'

...I think Vicky Butler Henderson got it right last night when testing the 911 vs Boxster on Fifth Gear - of course the Boxster was slower, but the comment about some picky owners "putting a bag of cement" in the front boot of the 911 to "sort out the front end" made me chuckle

[piooly]

didnt the boxster S actually go round a lap faster than the base 911 carera? Sure someone did that article, might have been EVO mag.....

[stuthemong]

kevin ritson said:

Do your homework first. A 111S will cost you around £100-300 a year to service and if you get AA parts and labour cover, not much in repairs. Check Boxster running costs and see where they come in. Fuel and tax will certainly be costlier with the Porker.

Reliability isn't really an issue - you may get HGF with the Elise, you may get RMS failure on the Boxster. [stu] but then on the elise.....

Then the alt will go
then the rack will go
then the geo will need doing
then the lights will go
then the VVC mech will go

In terms of what I have spend on the elise it's way more than the M3 I had, way more. But the petrol/insurance kind of makes up for it, but have no illusions, elises can, and do go loads wrong too (although rarely into 4 figures). Just lots of £300 bills

I doubt running that boxster would be much more than a s2, unless you get unlucky with the engine IMO

Edited by stuthemong on Tuesday 16th September 15:53

Edited by stuthemong on Tuesday 16th September 15:54

[bogie]

piooly said:

didnt the boxster S actually go round a lap faster than the base 911 carera? Sure someone did that article, might have been EVO mag.....

not even as fast as a 10 yr old 911 ...well...thats with VBH driving

[kevin ritson]

stuthemong said:

kevin ritson said:

Do your homework first. A 111S will cost you around £100-300 a year to service and if you get AA parts and labour cover, not much in repairs. Check Boxster running costs and see where they come in. Fuel and tax will certainly be costlier with the Porker.

Reliability isn't really an issue - you may get HGF with the Elise, you may get RMS failure on the Boxster. [stu] but then on the elise.....

Then the alt will go
then the rack will go
then the geo will need doing
then the lights will go
then the VVC mech will go

In terms of what I have spend on the elise it's way more than the M3 I had, way more. But the petrol/insurance kind of makes up for it, but have no illusions, elises can, and do go loads wrong too (although rarely into 4 figures). Just lots of £300 bills

I doubt running that boxster would be much more than a s2, unless you get unlucky with the engine IMO

Alternator? Well with AA cover that will cost the £50 excess.
Steering rack? See above but mine has been fine in 4 years.
Geo? If you take a Boxster on track then you'll need that doing too.
Lights? Never heard of that and what's that going to cost? Not a lot I'd have thought.
VVC mech - heard of very few cases of that. I've heard of Porker engines blowing at £15K a replacement but again, they're also rare.

As you say, £300 bills that are covered if you take out the AA Parts and Labour cover. It's a no-brainer on a 5-9 year old car anyway.

[bencollins]

bogie said:

piooly said:

wow that is a good price!! I'd get the Boxster S over an early S2. You get so much more for your money too!! Depends what car your after but the boxster is a fantastic car to drive and cheap to service, infact servicing is the same cost as an elise because the service/time interval is much longer on the Porsche. Parts can be steep but it should'nt go wrong anyway.....

I'm been tempted at the moment with the idea of a 911. Never been in one though. How similar to a boxster are they?

very very different to drive, as a 911 has the engine out the back. I really got on well with the Boxster I had for a week, but every time Ive driven a 911 Its felt awful at the limit ...admittedly its a while since I drove the dumbed down, road versions with PASM and such like, (that mask it) - in recent years Ive only driven full on GTs and RSRs ...and in the 30 mins Ive had, by the end of it Im just so frustrated at myself and the car, that it dosent do what I want ...a damn site easier to get into a front or mid engined car.

Of course they are a fine car, highly accomplished, very quick etc ..but they are an aquired taste to drive - on the limit, on track - most owners dont even realise of course, they are just posing around;) ..as as 'sportscar' they dont do it for me - inside they are like any German saloon, so no sense of occasion, and to drive - plain weird (to me) ...nah...Id sooner have a Boxster or Cayman, if it had to be German, regardless of power ...if you want to go fast, there are far cheaper ways, that DO handle more 'traditionally'

...I think Vicky Butler Henderson got it right last night when testing the 911 vs Boxster on Fifth Gear - of course the Boxster was slower, but the comment about some picky owners "putting a bag of cement" in the front boot of the 911 to "sort out the front end" made me chuckle

I dont know much about fast car driving but i was interested to read this, which was how i felt, boxster was great, the 911 was plain scarey and didnt inspire confidence on wet leaves in the lake district (maybe u get used to it or something) plus it was a very expensive car i borrowed, and the pricier it is, the slower i drive. I´m a little bit concerned the Evora may tend toward the 911 rather than the boxster, still they´ve sold a billion 911s so what do I know, eh?

[stuthemong]

kevin ritson said:

Alternator? Well with AA cover that will cost the £50 excess.
Steering rack? See above but mine has been fine in 4 years.
Geo? If you take a Boxster on track then you'll need that doing too.
Lights? Never heard of that and what's that going to cost? Not a lot I'd have thought.
VVC mech - heard of very few cases of that. I've heard of Porker engines blowing at £15K a replacement but again, they're also rare.

As you say, £300 bills that are covered if you take out the AA Parts and Labour cover. It's a no-brainer on a 5-9 year old car anyway.

Alt - yup, that was luckily on the AA's tab. But it's a day's hassle.
Rack, AA won't pick that up as it's wear&tear, £250 (feels MUUUUCH better now though )
Geo - with rack, was only £80 or so
Lights - neither me Alas my nearslide lights have all stopped working as of yesterday. Need to investigate further, fuses all OK..........
VVC - not an AA one as it's very rattly, not a breakdown. I'm just paying for it to be sorted whilst it's just this and not the entire engine going pop.

AA is great when something pops, but I'm not happy to let some things go when a bit of preventative maintenance can sort problems before they turn more serious.

I can't beleive an indy couldnt fit a perfectly servicable 2nd hand engine for 5K or so in a boxster, so tales of 15K I don't buy.

Ultimatley the elise has been a trail of £2-300 bills for me, that's all I was cautioning. It's a good job I'm a student too, I couldnt easily take all the time off to sort it that I have had to if I had a proper job, to say nothing of little niggly stuff I've sorted myself

[griffter]

What's hitting Boxster values is what's hitting S2000 values (the market for which appears to be on its knees); namely the Chancellor's brilliant new VED regime. Any post 01 Boxster S, or S2000 is clobbered by VED of £400 upwards and this is having a detrimental effect on values.
What's more frustrating is that the enhanced version of these models (glass rear screen, handling revision etc) are post 01. So the 'best' cars are looking great value but expensive to tax.

For sure these are great value for metal, but I don't fancy the running costs or resale experience.

I'm in the market for an Elise at the moment and I'm currently debating the tax-friendly 111S (it might be £145 now, but it's £175 next year, £180 the year after) vs the servicing-friendly 111R (but £300 VED). The great irony is the that the standard Elise is bracketed between these two.

I say that bodes well for the 111S market in years to come.

[chris7676]

Don't worry, they may easliy change the tax rules again and they will say "you must play by the rules". Nothing is certain and surely not fair or logical.

[kevin ritson]

griffter said:

I'm in the market for an Elise at the moment and I'm currently debating the tax-friendly 111S (it might be £145 now, but it's £175 next year, £180 the year after) vs the servicing-friendly 111R (but £300 VED). The great irony is the that the standard Elise is bracketed between these two.

111S is dirt cheap to service. I paid £100 at a Lotus servicing agent just under 3 weeks ago.

[bogie]

I can understand people buying a cheap used family car for £5K cash and worrying about tax and such like ...i cannot get my head around about being so well off enough, having £12-13K lying around spare to blow on a luxury toy sportscar and worrying about £400 once a year though ?

oh well, good job we dont have all the same logic...the govt are obviously affecting some people with this silly up-front tax...just a shame it wont be those who cant afford the real £30,40,50,60,70K+ big engined beasts