Dyslexia and the DDA

[Brown and Boris]

Had a job applicant we failed because his writen English was poor. It is a written standard we can show is needed in the job which has a significant written element and the paperwork goes to Govt, agencies and eventually the courts.

This morning I had an appeal against the decision to fail him on written English. He had a psychologists report saying he should get 25% more time in formal assessments, someone to check his work, plus use of a spell checker and that his employer should be prepared to highlight key aspects in reports for him and explain all tasks more than once. The report says he struggles filling in forms and organising himself (which is a big part of the job). The final bit sugested we aletred (altered) the job demands to meet his needs.

As it was he had the application form for 3 weeks before hand, shirley be could have weeded out the errors in 3 weeks?

I am all for giving people a fair chance but the job is about being organised and filling in forms and I can't see any dept being too keeen on highlighting the key parts of reports for him, checking his spelling when he puts reports in or changing systems to suit him.

Am I being a barsteward or having a grumpy day here?

Edited by Brown and Boris on Saturday 13th September 16:45

[ATTAK Z]

Brown and Boris said:

Had a job applicant we failed because his writen English was poor. It is a written standard we can show is needed in the job which has a significant written element and the paperwork goes to Govt, agencies and eventually the courts.

This morning I had an appeal against the decision to fail him on written English. He had a psychologists report saying he should get 25% more time in formal assessments, someone to check his work, plus use of a spell checker and that his employer should be prepared to highlight key aspects in reports for him and explain all tasks more than once. The report says he struggles filling in forms and organising himself (which is a big part of the job). The final bit sugested we aletred the job demands to meet his needs.

I am all for giving people a fair chance but the job is about being organised and filling in forms and I can't see any dept being too keeen on highlighting the key parts of reports for him, checking his spelling when he puts reports in or changing systems to suit hi,

Am I being a barsteward or having a grumpy day here?

Was his spelling and grammar worse than yours?

[mybrainhurts]

Brown and Boris said:

sugested we aletred the job demands

Be aletred...your country needs letreds

Boom Boom...

[Pooh]

Before the usual numpties pop up to claim that dyslexia does not exist, I suffer from it and I have trouble hand writing anything more than a shopping list. I manage fine with a lap top and a spell checker but I would not dream of applying for a job that involved filling in forms/writing stuff by hand, it would be utter hell for me and I would be totally unsuitable for the job.
All dyslexics are not the same but if he is anything like me and it is not possible for him to use a keyboard then IMO he is not suitable for the job, although he could be very able in other ways.
Dyslexics are not normally disorganised, or in need of having things explained more than once, certainly not in my case, so I am not sure what that is all about.

Edited by Pooh on Saturday 13th September 16:59

[Flintstone]

I can't juggle, eat fire or control lions, tigers and elephants so I the circus wouldn't give me a job. Can I claim discrimination?*

• * I know, I know. I could train but if you're not fit for a job, don't apply for it!

[Raffles]

Brown and Boris said:

As it was he had the application form for 3 weeks before hand, shirley be could have weeded out the errors in 3 weeks?

I am sympathetic toward dyslexics. But he should have had a friend who is good at English to check over his stuff to make it non-apparent that he had any difficulty. If he is unable to make sure his work is good then he would be a bad employee. Despite being dyslexic, if he had had the initiative to get his stuff checked and made good, he would be a good employee.

In other words, I agree with OP.

[Raffles]

Pooh said:

Before the usual numpties pop up to claim that dyslexia does not exist, I suffer from it and I have trouble hand writing anything more than a shopping list. I manage fine with a lap top and a spell checker but I would not dream of applying for a job that involved filling in forms/writing stuff by hand, it would be utter hell for me and I would be totally unsuitable for the job.
All dyslexics are not the same but if he is anything like me and it is not possible for him to use a keyboard then IMO he is not suitable for the job, although he could be very able in other ways.
Dyslexics are not normally disorganised, or in need of having things explained more than once, certainly not in my case, so I am not sure what that is all about.

You wouldn't know you were dyslexic from that post.

[Geronimo]

Brown and Boris said:

Had a job applicant we failed because his writen English was poor. It is a written standard we can show is needed in the job which has a significant written element and the paperwork goes to Govt, agencies and eventually the courts.

This morning I had an appeal against the decision to fail him on written English. He had a psychologists report saying he should get 25% more time in formal assessments, someone to check his work, plus use of a spell checker and that his employer should be prepared to highlight key aspects in reports for him and explain all tasks more than once. The report says he struggles filling in forms and organising himself (which is a big part of the job). The final bit sugested we aletred (altered) the job demands to meet his needs.

As it was he had the application form for 3 weeks before hand, shirley be could have weeded out the errors in 3 weeks?

I am all for giving people a fair chance but the job is about being organised and filling in forms and I can't see any dept being too keeen on highlighting the key parts of reports for him, checking his spelling when he puts reports in or changing systems to suit him.

Am I being a barsteward or having a grumpy day here?

Edited by Brown and Boris on Saturday 13th September 16:45

You are absolutely in the right here.

The world has gone PC mad and this 25% extra malarkey is unreal. By bringing up that point he is effectively saying he is substandard and, were you to employ him, he would require more time than the rest of your staff to do the job at hand.

This is just another sign of the times that people have been brought up to think that they are special and can do whatever they want, even if they are clearly not cut out for it as it would appear in this case.

I'm sure that the people he would end up working with (if you were forced to employ him - does his daddy know anyone in the company?) would be none too happy at having to carry someone.

When you recruit people for positions you rightly want to pick the best person available, that's just common sense.

[Leccy]

Brown and Boris said:

As it was he had the application form for 3 weeks before hand, shirley be could have weeded out the errors in 3 weeks?

Edited by Brown and Boris on Saturday 13th September 16:45

Did you use the word 'shirley' deliberately or do you think it is the correct word? Are you dyslexic maybe?

[mybrainhurts]

Leccy said:

Brown and Boris said:

As it was he had the application form for 3 weeks before hand, shirley be could have weeded out the errors in 3 weeks?

Edited by Brown and Boris on Saturday 13th September 16:45

Did you use the word 'shirley' deliberately or do you think it is the correct word? Are you dyslexic maybe?

He means Shirley Temple could have weeded out the errors...

[Raffles]

Leccy said:

Brown and Boris said:

As it was he had the application form for 3 weeks before hand, shirley be could have weeded out the errors in 3 weeks?

Edited by Brown and Boris on Saturday 13th September 16:45

Did you use the word 'shirley' deliberately or do you think it is the correct word? Are you dyslexic maybe?

Did you miss out the capital L in your profile deliberately or are you dyslexic perhaps?

[grumbledoak]

Trying to avoid the whole medical bks (I don't think it exists, at least not in the sense that some seem to)...

He cannot do the job you require him to do. Surely that is enough?

[Pooh]

Raffles said:

Pooh said:

Before the usual numpties pop up to claim that dyslexia does not exist, I suffer from it and I have trouble hand writing anything more than a shopping list. I manage fine with a lap top and a spell checker but I would not dream of applying for a job that involved filling in forms/writing stuff by hand, it would be utter hell for me and I would be totally unsuitable for the job.
All dyslexics are not the same but if he is anything like me and it is not possible for him to use a keyboard then IMO he is not suitable for the job, although he could be very able in other ways.
Dyslexics are not normally disorganised, or in need of having things explained more than once, certainly not in my case, so I am not sure what that is all about.

You wouldn't know you were dyslexic from that post.

Thanks, that is partly my point, with the aid of a lap top I can communicate perfectly well, I am dyslexic not illiterate.

[FunkyNige]

Pooh said:

Before the usual numpties pop up to claim that dyslexia does not exist, <snip>

All the experts that pop up saying dyslexia doesn't exist are actually saying we shouldn't lump all dyslexics into the same category as differnt people have different problems with reading or writing, such as you have differnt issues to the person described in the OP and it's unhelpful to give you both the same aids.

I'm with the OP in not employing him, I know what my weaknesses are and I wouldn't dream of applying for a job that reqiures me to do something I'm not good at.

[Pooh]

FunkyNige said:

Pooh said:

Before the usual numpties pop up to claim that dyslexia does not exist, <snip>

All the experts that pop up saying dyslexia doesn't exist are actually saying we shouldn't lump all dyslexics into the same category as differnt people have different problems with reading or writing, such as you have differnt issues to the person described in the OP and it's unhelpful to give you both the same aids.

I'm with the OP in not employing him, I know what my weaknesses are and I wouldn't dream of applying for a job that reqiures me to do something I'm not good at.

I was referring to some people on here who are most certainly not "experts" but I agree with the rest of what you say.

[Hedders]

How does he respond to the question "What do you think you can bring to the role you are applying for?"

[littlegreenfairy]

Pooh said:

Before the usual numpties pop up to claim that dyslexia does not exist, I suffer from it and I have trouble hand writing anything more than a shopping list. I manage fine with a lap top and a spell checker but I would not dream of applying for a job that involved filling in forms/writing stuff by hand, it would be utter hell for me and I would be totally unsuitable for the job.
All dyslexics are not the same but if he is anything like me and it is not possible for him to use a keyboard then IMO he is not suitable for the job, although he could be very able in other ways.
Dyslexics are not normally disorganised, or in need of having things explained more than once, certainly not in my case, so I am not sure what that is all about.

Edited by Pooh on Saturday 13th September 16:59

It sounds like he is also dyspraxic as this sounds just like a friend of mine.

OP - You were quite right not to give him the job.

[Jasandjules]

how large is your firm?
How much of the job would be handwritten?
Just thinking of a DDA defence.
I know of solicitors who are really badly dyslexic (though crud knows how they survive).

[Pigeon]

Hedders said:

How does he respond to the question "What do you think you can bring to the role you are applying for?"

"A gross intolerance of fking stupid questions"?

[londonbabe]

Whilst dyslexia certainly exists (those who don't think so can argue with the chief clinical psychologist at the Portland Hospital, but you'll lose), and it is reasonable for someone with dyslexia to have more time in written exams and so forth that they are forced to do by the education system or whatever, I don't see that it would apply here. Did he notify you beforehand that he was dyslexic. If he knows he has difficulty with that stuff he has no business seeking a job that is full of it. He will be miserable, do his job badly, never get on, and it will generally be a poor move both for him and the employer. And he can't be so thick that he doesn't know this, so I suspect he is trying it on, and will be a sponging lawsuit-happy bd if you back down on this and end up saddled with him.

That sounds so judgemental and unfair, but I've been in his position, and you don't behave like he is doing. I am dyspraxic, and also have a degree of dysgraphia (bloody awful handwriting, 'forget' how to write letters sometimes) dyscalcia (can't do numbers very well.) I have had experience of both the sheer frustration of finding yourself in a job you should be able to do, that people expect you to be able to do, but to be unable to do it because certain bits of your brain are not wired the way everyone else's are. You just wouldn't put yourself in that position having found out what that job entails.

Before my diagnosis (eternal thanks to the aforementioned medical professional) I was basically getting a load of st and being made to feel miserable, not because I couldn't do my real job (web development) but because I couldn't do all the extra st that went with it, like timesheets, estimates, meetings, and all that crap that project managers should do (but didn't because they were useless). I figured that I was clever and bloody good at the core of my job, but there were certainly areas where I just didn't compute but it took a diagnosis and the resulting legal protection before they would leave me alone. I'm sure that was a royal pain in the arse for my employers, but as I, once freed from the shackles of Prince 2 "process is everything" straitjacket, began to deliver over and above their most ambitious reqirements, it worked out for everyone. It was still a Prince 2 organisation though - you can only fight so many battles, so eventually I left and got a job with a proper company that had proper management though, and everything has been fine since.