Driving in the Wet
Discussion
Thought I'd share this one with you...
A good friend of mine, Matt, took delivery of a 2nd hand Ferrari 360 last week. On his third drive of the car, he approached a roundabout at about 30, slowed and downshifted to 2nd (this is a paddle shift car btw) and lost his backend completely. He managed to have possibly the slowest ever crash as his car plummeted helplessly down a ditch through a load of scrub and ended up hitting a tree. No injuries other than pride. It wouldn't be half as funny if it wasn't for the following facts :
1. He did exactly the same to a Lotus Esprit 2 years ago
2. He hadn't read the manual and never switched the traction control over to "Wet" traction mode.
So the moral of this story is "RTFM" !!!
Anyone who lives / works in Whiteley Hants may well have seen it in the ditch in a hotel
A good friend of mine, Matt, took delivery of a 2nd hand Ferrari 360 last week. On his third drive of the car, he approached a roundabout at about 30, slowed and downshifted to 2nd (this is a paddle shift car btw) and lost his backend completely. He managed to have possibly the slowest ever crash as his car plummeted helplessly down a ditch through a load of scrub and ended up hitting a tree. No injuries other than pride. It wouldn't be half as funny if it wasn't for the following facts :
1. He did exactly the same to a Lotus Esprit 2 years ago
2. He hadn't read the manual and never switched the traction control over to "Wet" traction mode.
So the moral of this story is "RTFM" !!!
Anyone who lives / works in Whiteley Hants may well have seen it in the ditch in a hotel
My dad managed that particular trick in his jaguar xjs v12. He's the sort of driver to plot up in front of you at an annoyingly slow speed, as if he was chauffering the queen. A bit like old duffers in gold mercs and old dears in metro's, in that respect. Needless to say he was a tad embarrassed at his sudden reckless driving!
quote:
He managed to have possibly the slowest ever crash
without wanting to do a 'Im better' type thing...I beg to differ
. I managed to spin my esprit into a fence at no more than 10mph! It is the only accident of any sort Ive ever had and it ws extremely embarassing! roundabout...wet...massive diesel spill! Night
I tried to chase a 3000gto.. with my Smart car! in town I got way ahead, nipping in and out - generally being a nuisance.
On the open road he goes past - but slows for a big roundabout. So I thought "let's 'av 'im", and powered onto the roundabout.
Eeeek. Front went light at 50, I thought "traction control will sort it", kept my foot planted.
One second later, back came round, and kept coming !
I go backwards down A10 slip road, missing everything. How embarrassed was I ??
Moral of the story: slow down in the wet, especially if it is the first rain for a long time.
On the open road he goes past - but slows for a big roundabout. So I thought "let's 'av 'im", and powered onto the roundabout.
Eeeek. Front went light at 50, I thought "traction control will sort it", kept my foot planted.
One second later, back came round, and kept coming !
I go backwards down A10 slip road, missing everything. How embarrassed was I ??
Moral of the story: slow down in the wet, especially if it is the first rain for a long time.
Booooring front wheel drive is safer insofar as you can't accelerate hard without spinning the front wheels, whereas RWD benefits from the weight transfer and gets more grip. Similarly when you corner, the front wheel drive breaks away earlier as both engine torque and steering forces are applied to one tyre, but the slide tends to be predictable and fairly stable. RWD lets you corner faster and balance the slide better (as it is theoreticaly possible to control the degree to which the front and rear are sliding almost independently), but when you get it wrong the car is usually spinning .
So you can either go for the no-brainer front wheel drive, or you can get a big boys rear wheel drive and learn how to use it.
Me? I just go very slowly and occaisionally loose it anyway....
. So you can either go for the no-brainer front wheel drive, or you can get a big boys rear wheel drive and learn how to use it.
Me? I just go very slowly and occaisionally loose it anyway....
Carl,
In days of old when knights were bold and FWD weren't invented....(you know the rest so I won't finish this)....we poor disadvantaged Scots used to pray for rain when we came to England.
Your lot cheated disgracefully and learned - yes, really learned the circuits! So what were we to do? Pray for rain, that's what. Most of us were born in a puddle and grew up in a puddle and learned to drive in a puddle. Your lot just didn't understand puddles at all, no Sir, not at all.
I recall a delightful day at Snetterton when it absolutely bucketed, and being on the LH side of the front row I thought to myself...ho hum, or och aye, or something like that, which told me there was going to be a God Almighty stramash at the first corner.
So I decided not to start hardly at all. Before I could say the Scots for knife four cars shot past. Much gleeful och aye
....the whole greedy lot of them went straight off into the scenery at the first corner never to be seen again, and I walked it and got a silver teapot too!
I swear that's true!!! Moral: Gang Warily....or
In days of old when knights were bold and FWD weren't invented....(you know the rest so I won't finish this)....we poor disadvantaged Scots used to pray for rain when we came to England.
Your lot cheated disgracefully and learned - yes, really learned the circuits! So what were we to do? Pray for rain, that's what. Most of us were born in a puddle and grew up in a puddle and learned to drive in a puddle. Your lot just didn't understand puddles at all, no Sir, not at all.
I recall a delightful day at Snetterton when it absolutely bucketed, and being on the LH side of the front row I thought to myself...ho hum, or och aye, or something like that, which told me there was going to be a God Almighty stramash at the first corner.
So I decided not to start hardly at all. Before I could say the Scots for knife four cars shot past. Much gleeful och aye
....the whole greedy lot of them went straight off into the scenery at the first corner never to be seen again, and I walked it and got a silver teapot too! I swear that's true!!! Moral: Gang Warily....or
Steve Sutcliffe (Autocar 23/01/02) says that nothing can live with a 4WD Nissan Skyline on tarmac. Motor racing says that RWD is the only option. Ordinary driving proves that the average git is happy with FWD.
My wife's Corrado taught me (git-like) that it doesn't really matter which end it's at.....but RWD does FEEL nicer, surely
My wife's Corrado taught me (git-like) that it doesn't really matter which end it's at.....but RWD does FEEL nicer, surely
"Motor racing says that RWD is the only option." funny that seeing as rally cars are either FWD or 4 wheel drive. Could it be that on slippery surfaces or normal roads that FWD and 4WD is better?
Personally I like the engine and driving wheels to be in ths same half of the car ie front engine FWD best. FWD in wet and slippery (which is a lot in this country)is definately better as I find control much easier (if you want oversteer use brakes, lift to straighten). On the track where its billiard table smooth and lots of run off then nothing can beat mid-engine RWD.
Again horses for courses.
>> Edited by smeagol on Monday 28th January 16:40
Personally I like the engine and driving wheels to be in ths same half of the car ie front engine FWD best. FWD in wet and slippery (which is a lot in this country)is definately better as I find control much easier (if you want oversteer use brakes, lift to straighten). On the track where its billiard table smooth and lots of run off then nothing can beat mid-engine RWD.
Again horses for courses.
>> Edited by smeagol on Monday 28th January 16:40
quote:
"Motor racing says that RWD is the only option." funny that seeing as rally cars are either FWD or 4 wheel drive. Could it be that on slippery surfaces or normal roads that FWD and 4WD is better?
Summat to do with the rules, I believe. 4WD is best on crappy surfaces, but if you choose to run a FWD car, you get other benefits e.g. lighter min weight. And remember the cars are all based on current mass production models, and hardly anyone makes RWD cars that fit within the regs for dimensions, engine size etc.
Look back a few years - RWD Escorts ruled the roost, and I believe that 2wd 911s are now the thing to have in the classic races. (But of course the Mini reigned supreme briefly, as it fitted the rules best.)
Admit it Smeagol - you're obviously not man enough to drive RWD on British roads
So the self built RWD Kit car I Drove for 7 years don't count? When you've driven a car thats front engined RWD and weighs next to nothing (800kg) on black ice then you can come back and tell me I'm not man enough to drive. The kit I had had very little heating and was driven every day. I once had to defrost a friend in a cafe after making the peak district run from Derby to Manchester in early Jan.
The engine position is the most vital piece in this argument. Front engine RWD is crap. Thats why racing cars are MID ENGINED RWD. (see back to my original post where I said I prefer the engine in the same half of the car)When the mini first came out in rally I believe it didn't get any compensation and still won. Most world RWD rally cars had the engine in the back. I believe the rule changes stated that the cars had to be more similar to the production car and thats when FWD took over. Oh and BTW the Porche 911 is REAR ENGINED.
The comments I've made here are genuine and truthful and not targetted at anyone, yet you seem to be into personal abuse Mattc, shame as we will be karting together (hopefully a fun event). Lets not get bogged down with this.
Summary:
Front engined RWD: crap for handling but can be FUN as you control the rear end more.
Front engine FWD: excellent in crap conditions.
Mid/Rear Engine RWD: excellent on track and dry conditions can be prone to "pendulem/fish tale" in slippy conditions.
These are my opinions based upon my experience.
The engine position is the most vital piece in this argument. Front engine RWD is crap. Thats why racing cars are MID ENGINED RWD. (see back to my original post where I said I prefer the engine in the same half of the car)When the mini first came out in rally I believe it didn't get any compensation and still won. Most world RWD rally cars had the engine in the back. I believe the rule changes stated that the cars had to be more similar to the production car and thats when FWD took over. Oh and BTW the Porche 911 is REAR ENGINED.
The comments I've made here are genuine and truthful and not targetted at anyone, yet you seem to be into personal abuse Mattc, shame as we will be karting together (hopefully a fun event). Lets not get bogged down with this.
Summary:
Front engined RWD: crap for handling but can be FUN as you control the rear end more.
Front engine FWD: excellent in crap conditions.
Mid/Rear Engine RWD: excellent on track and dry conditions can be prone to "pendulem/fish tale" in slippy conditions.
These are my opinions based upon my experience.
Smeagol,
My remark...."Motor racing says that RWD is the only option"....meant exactly that. I was merely contrasting Sutcliffe's opinion with the accepted optimal configuration for racing on tarmac.
Of course you are right about 4WD in rallying and on slippery non-tarmac surfaces, but I think the jury is still out on the question of 4WD on tarmac. It was tried in racing a long time ago but unfortunately didn't succeed.
Ironically, despite my preference for RWD, the most secure road car I've ever had was the Audi Quattro!
My remark...."Motor racing says that RWD is the only option"....meant exactly that. I was merely contrasting Sutcliffe's opinion with the accepted optimal configuration for racing on tarmac.
Of course you are right about 4WD in rallying and on slippery non-tarmac surfaces, but I think the jury is still out on the question of 4WD on tarmac. It was tried in racing a long time ago but unfortunately didn't succeed.
Ironically, despite my preference for RWD, the most secure road car I've ever had was the Audi Quattro!
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