Multi fuel/wood burning stoves
Discussion
My mums looking at (alright my mum has got me looking at) getting a stove to replace her existing open fire the fire place and harth are big enough to accomodate a fairly substantial one with the flue exiting at the rear and going straight up the existing chimney. Now at fist glance this looks fairly straight forward as apart from chisseling out some of the lip in the fire brick at the back to allow a 6" flue to go up the stack I couldn't see a problem.
However as with all things that involve mothers it's never that easy, she's been into a shop and found a burner she likes but they've given her a big long lecture that her chimney has got to be completely lined (her house is very high, like over 10m high!), they're sending someone out to give her a quote but she should expect a "fair few hundred pounds", which I would expect to grow to a couple of grand once you add scaffolding etc. Now I haven't had a stove for years but I know that last time I did i simply poked a flue about 4' up the chimney lit it and watched the smoke come out the top, no problem, job done. But I just can't get my head round why it should be different for her, the fire place has been having some big open fires in it for years, but she just wants something more efficient and easier to clean out and look after, so why the need to line the chimney? shirley smoke is smoke and if it's been going up there ok till now it should continue to do so? Can I just buy stove, make gap big enough for 6" flue, poke it up chimney and bobs your mums brother, or is it really much more difficult as these shops are making out?
However as with all things that involve mothers it's never that easy, she's been into a shop and found a burner she likes but they've given her a big long lecture that her chimney has got to be completely lined (her house is very high, like over 10m high!), they're sending someone out to give her a quote but she should expect a "fair few hundred pounds", which I would expect to grow to a couple of grand once you add scaffolding etc. Now I haven't had a stove for years but I know that last time I did i simply poked a flue about 4' up the chimney lit it and watched the smoke come out the top, no problem, job done. But I just can't get my head round why it should be different for her, the fire place has been having some big open fires in it for years, but she just wants something more efficient and easier to clean out and look after, so why the need to line the chimney? shirley smoke is smoke and if it's been going up there ok till now it should continue to do so? Can I just buy stove, make gap big enough for 6" flue, poke it up chimney and bobs your mums brother, or is it really much more difficult as these shops are making out?
The chances are that when converting from big open fireplace to a wood burner your chimney will draw better than before. I would just install one in first, light it up and see. Thats exactly what I did a few years ago. Result = no need for a liner. I replaced it with a bigger one last year. Result = still no need for a liner. I did however install a top plate to put the pipe through. The old opening was very wide.
Some good advice here
http://www.jotul.com/en-gb/wwwjotulukcom/Main-Menu...
Some good advice here
http://www.jotul.com/en-gb/wwwjotulukcom/Main-Menu...
just as a word of warning, if you dont get it lined.
wood burners burn much hotter tha nopen fires, and can send alot of tar etc higher up ht echimney as it cools faster in an open chinmey that in a flues, which can get coked up inside the chimney, and 'can' cause fires, or seep through the brick to stain chimney breast walls.
if you do put one in without a liner , get the chimney swept before hand , and pretty much every year there after if you can... and make sure you put a flue with an access panel on the side or you will have to take out the re4gister plate every tim eyou want to sweep it... they are good though ( wood burners that is)
wood burners burn much hotter tha nopen fires, and can send alot of tar etc higher up ht echimney as it cools faster in an open chinmey that in a flues, which can get coked up inside the chimney, and 'can' cause fires, or seep through the brick to stain chimney breast walls.
if you do put one in without a liner , get the chimney swept before hand , and pretty much every year there after if you can... and make sure you put a flue with an access panel on the side or you will have to take out the re4gister plate every tim eyou want to sweep it... they are good though ( wood burners that is)
Insulating your chimney liner reduces tar and soot deposits thereby reducing the risk of chimney fire.
Lining your chimney creates a continuous smooth chimney with less surfaces for tar / soot to condense onto. Tar that does form can flow directly back to the stove to be recombusted as opposed to building up in the rough crevices of a masonry chimney.
Insulating your chimney liner increases the temperature of the flue gases which in turn will tend to improve the draw of a chimney since warm air rises.
Lining your chimney will cure problems of smoke leaking out through cracks in a masonry chimney.
Lining your chimney will stop new tar from leaking out through cracks in the chimney or onto your stove.
If your chimney is very large then lining your chimney for use with a stove can be a safer option as flue gases in a large chimney cool very quickly resulting in a high level of condensates which are hard to remove when sweeping.
Containing the flue gases in a pipe of consistent diameter maintains the flow and velocity of the gases in the system - ie the flue gases will travel faster. This will reduce deposits (as the gases spend less time in the chimney and cool less) and will also improve draw.
Taken from here http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/why-line-a-chimney.h...
Lining your chimney creates a continuous smooth chimney with less surfaces for tar / soot to condense onto. Tar that does form can flow directly back to the stove to be recombusted as opposed to building up in the rough crevices of a masonry chimney.
Insulating your chimney liner increases the temperature of the flue gases which in turn will tend to improve the draw of a chimney since warm air rises.
Lining your chimney will cure problems of smoke leaking out through cracks in a masonry chimney.
Lining your chimney will stop new tar from leaking out through cracks in the chimney or onto your stove.
If your chimney is very large then lining your chimney for use with a stove can be a safer option as flue gases in a large chimney cool very quickly resulting in a high level of condensates which are hard to remove when sweeping.
Containing the flue gases in a pipe of consistent diameter maintains the flow and velocity of the gases in the system - ie the flue gases will travel faster. This will reduce deposits (as the gases spend less time in the chimney and cool less) and will also improve draw.
Taken from here http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/why-line-a-chimney.h...
Yes I've been looking on the web and I'm honestly in disbelief about this lot, pardon the pun but I'm sure it's all smoke and mirrors, I mean FFS most of the sites make a big thing about using "Grade 316 Stainless Steel", now I might be a woodburning biffa but I do know about st/st and I do know that 316 is bloody expensive in comparisson to 304 which is more than suitable for almost every application unless it is in direct contact with food or pharmasuticals, I'm convinced the industry is selling snake oil.
So seeing as you have the knowledge, ask 'em. Maybe they know something you don't, or maybe they'll confirm your snake oil suspicions.
ETA "layer made of 316 grade stainless steel, able to withstand corrosive flue gases given off by wood burning and multi fuel stoves." Could that be a reason for their expensive steel?
ETA "layer made of 316 grade stainless steel, able to withstand corrosive flue gases given off by wood burning and multi fuel stoves." Could that be a reason for their expensive steel?
Edited by scotal on Tuesday 9th September 13:14
My OH had a stove business almost 15 years ago and even then some sort of lining and insulation was considered essential. We've seen stoves fitted where no lining was used and whilst they can work, they're never as efficient as a sealed liner.
One other important point has already been mentioned, that an unlined chimney is prone to tar seepage and chimney fires, and believe me a woodburner chimney fire is no laughing matter.
If you ever do have a chimney fire and can't prove to the Fire Service that you've had it swept annually they'll bang you with a huge bill.
If you ever have a chimney fire which becomes a house fire and you can't prove the same, your property insurance may also be void.
If you rent a property with a multifuel stove then your landlord or letting agent will undoubtedly require you to have the chimney swept at least annually.
One other important point has already been mentioned, that an unlined chimney is prone to tar seepage and chimney fires, and believe me a woodburner chimney fire is no laughing matter.
If you ever do have a chimney fire and can't prove to the Fire Service that you've had it swept annually they'll bang you with a huge bill.
If you ever have a chimney fire which becomes a house fire and you can't prove the same, your property insurance may also be void.
If you rent a property with a multifuel stove then your landlord or letting agent will undoubtedly require you to have the chimney swept at least annually.
What is the roof made of?
If its thatch get it lined! Most thatch fires are caused by the much higher temperatures that are achieved by woodburners. If you are burning wood then it will need sweeping at least once a year - your insurance may even dictate this, ours does.
If its a normal timber/tile roof then it would be far more optional. Lined chimneys are not cheap in comparison with a stainless steel liner.
If its thatch get it lined! Most thatch fires are caused by the much higher temperatures that are achieved by woodburners. If you are burning wood then it will need sweeping at least once a year - your insurance may even dictate this, ours does.
If its a normal timber/tile roof then it would be far more optional. Lined chimneys are not cheap in comparison with a stainless steel liner.
Sorry for the hijack... I live in a 1988 built house, anyone know the rough cost of lining the chimney and getting a closed burner installed? Been thinking about this for a few weeks this thread has just spark (get it) my thoughts again.
thanks, M
thanks, M
Edited by Monster26 on Wednesday 10th September 13:01
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